Kyler Murray Debate Thread

[Brian in Mesa]

I want better than Kyler, but I recognize that many teams have traded up from the middle of the first round to get a QB that they really want. I am ok being patient for that opportunity.

Like this (when we could have had Lamar Jackson instead)?

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[BirdGangThing]

So that is a yes that Kyler would do better than 6-7 on the Bills or are you saying we have more talent than them?

Sure. I can admit he hasn't done the best in crucial games. You also have given no stats to back up the fact that we have had a team good enough to win "crucial" games.

The irony being that the only way we would win those games is him being Superman. In crucial games. Vs very good opponents, who predominately will have very good defenses.

Yes I concede, a young, immature, Kyler Murray before the ACL injury could have done better in many games.

But that is not who he is anymore. The reason we are losing these games has more to do with the entire team than just him. Our offense did well enough to beat MINN for instance.

A team that has 10 wins, more talent on offense and defense, and you have a 22-6 lead. How is that the QB's fault exactly for the loss?

i didn't say yes to anything you said - im not here to chop down your cherry tree or debate hypotheticals

i just said what i said - but i can clarify

kyler murray and josh allen aren't even on the same planet and no amount of stats can make up for kyler's back to back picks and us missing the playoffs again

 

[cardinals2025]

Actually, there's really no pressure beyond he has to stop the losing streak. We are effectively out of playoff contention, so now Kyler will probably play well again. It is the way.

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We need to win out obviously but we will be helped most by the Rams beating the Seahawks.

Two scenarios where we could get in...both involve us winning out.

Rams also finish 10-7.

We win division and they take wildcard over WAS.


OR


Seattle beats the Rams and finishes 10-7.

Washington finishes 9-8.

We get into Wildcard at 10-7.


Not sure if there is a way for us to get in with 9 wins.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Except you want us to punt on next season, man. You cannot bring back a QB you don't believe in and say it's not punting on the season.

The “we’re forced to keep Kyler next season” position not only has us punting on next season with Kyler at QB, it will also hurt the 2026 team because of how hard getting rid of Kyler will be on the 2026 cap as well.

 

[kerouac9]

Kyler will be under extreme pressure on Sunday to perform well against the Pats. With the Rams win over the 49ers last night, Arizona is no longer in last place in the division. Kyler must rise up to keep the Cards out of the basement. He needs to perform his job instead of polishing his golf clubs for the offseason.

Kyler is under no pressure in this game. He has a guaranteed contract, he's playing at home, stadium will be 25% empty, it's an out-of-conference game, and this opponent is very bad and playing for draft position.

He'll probably throw for 275 and 2 TDs plus rush for another.

I think this game means alot to him also considering it was NE when he tore his ACL last time vs them here.

I don't think he cares about this one bit. It's not like he was victim to a dirty hit.

18 tackles. They are utilizing him in a way we could have never imagined. He may lead the league in tackles to finish.

It's hard to believe that people still think a safety getting tackles is good. Seattle scored 30 points on us -- a full touchdown more than their season average. They scored on their first three possessions. If their offense had knealt on the ball every possession of the second half they still would have had enough points to beat us.

18 tackles is good when it's combined with a sack and two PBUs. He was featured on Packcakes on Monday morning ESPN getting run over by DK Metcalf.

I would rather be between 7 and 10 wins over the next season or two than winning 4 games with a 3rd round rookie draft pick (I am only using this option because you had mentioned it). I am done tanking. I am done with being one of the worst franchises in football and having historically bad season wins over multiple years. I want better than Kyler, but I recognize that many teams have traded up from the middle of the first round to get a QB that they really want. I am ok being patient for that opportunity.

THIS! I don't understand how people can still preach the gospel of a tank when we're literally one year removed from a tank and feeling hopeless again. I'm not in that camp, BTW.

 

[602 Native]

You understand that teams rush their ends vs Kyler to contain. That makes rolling out nearly impossible to do consistently.

Imagine being an OC and knowing exactly what the defense is going to do.

 

[Chopper0080]

Like this (when we could have had Lamar Jackson instead)?

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You should ban yourself for using anything Keim did as the only outcome.

We just going to ignore the Chiefs trading up for Mahomes? The Bills trading up for Allen?

 

[Cheesebeef]

I struggle that people on this board argue like the only acceptable place to be is winning 4 games or winning multiple playoff games. In hindsight you can argue the Browns moved on from their "Kyler" to get Watson and look where it landed them.

And you AGAIN, you can look at the Vikings, Seahawks and Denver to show how those teams moved on from their “Kyler” and are ALL made the playoffs the next season.

The Browns went out and destroyed their team signing a rapist who hadn’t even played football in two years to a ridiculously large guaranteed contract. No one is suggesting anything that assinine.

 

[Chopper0080]

Imagine being an OC and knowing exactly what the defense is going to do.

Same as the QB. I have put on this board that I hold QBs to a higher standard than OCs. That said, yes, both Kyler and Petzing know exactly how teams want to attack them right now, and they both have a part in taking advantage of that. I put it more on Kyler than Drew but it's still on both of them.

 

[Cheesebeef]

You should ban yourself for using anything Keim did as the only outcome.

You should ban yourself for using anything the Browns did as the only outcome… especially when other teams like the Seahawks, Vikings and Denver all did what a lot of us are suggesting in moving on from Kyler.

 

[BirdGangThing]

Kyler is under no pressure in this game. He has a guaranteed contract, he's playing at home, stadium will be 25% empty, it's an out-of-conference game, and this opponent is very bad and playing for draft position.

He'll probably throw for 275 and 2 TDs plus rush for another.



I don't think he cares about this one bit. It's not like he was victim to a dirty hit.



It's hard to believe that people still think a safety getting tackles is good. Seattle scored 30 points on us -- a full touchdown more than their season average. They scored on their first three possessions. If their offense had knealt on the ball every possession of the second half they still would have had enough points to beat us.

18 tackles is good when it's combined with a sack and two PBUs. He was featured on Packcakes on Monday morning ESPN getting run over by DK Metcalf.



THIS! I don't understand how people can still preach the gospel of a tank when we're literally one year removed from a tank and feeling hopeless again. I'm not in that camp, BTW.

most definitely - 20 bucks says kyler rushes for a TD 100%

 

[Brian in Mesa]

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We need to win out obviously but we will be helped most by the Rams beating the Seahawks.

Two scenarios where we could get in...both involve us winning out.

Rams also finish 10-7.

We win division and they take wildcard over WAS.


OR


Seattle beats the Rams and finishes 10-7.

Washington finishes 9-8.

We get into Wildcard at 10-7.


Not sure if there is a way for us to get in with 9 wins.

We tanked another season by sucking after the bye. We are most likely looking forward to the draft and not putting up money for potential home playoff tickets. Now Kyler can play well again at the end of a meaningless season. Yay?

 

[Chopper0080]

And you AGAIN, you can look at the Vikings, Seahawks and Denver to show how those teams moved on from their “Kyler” and are ALL made the playoffs the next season.

The Browns went out and destroyed their team signing a rapist who hadn’t even played football in two years to a ridiculously large guaranteed contract. No one is suggesting anything that assinine.

Seattle has built their team around a top 20 QB in Geno after moving off of a 33 year old QB. That was when they had built the equity of 9 winning season in a row.

Minnesota kept re-signing a old QB in Cousins who couldn't win primetime games until his ask became too high and they could move up for a rookie QB. They had been trying for years to move up for a QB but had to be patient.

Denver had a HOF coach (EDIT: they didn't and see below) who told them to acquire Russ and then told them to dump Russ. Gannon doesn't have that credibility yet. Consider Russ is having a great year for the Steelers.

(EDIT: Broncos acquired Russ in 2022 and then signed Payton as HC in 2023. I flubbed up the years here)

 

[TRW]

Seattle has built their team around a top 20 QB in Geno after moving off of a 33 year old QB. That was when they had built the equity of 9 winning season in a row.

Minnesota kept re-signing a old QB in Cousins who couldn't win primetime games until his ask became too high and they could move up for a rookie QB. They had been trying for years to move up for a QB but had to be patient.

Denver had a HOF coach who told them to acquire Russ and then told them to dump Russ. Gannon doesn't have that credibility yet. Consider Russ is having a great year for the Steelers.

Nathaniel Hackett is a HOF coach?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Kyler is under no pressure in this game. He has a guaranteed contract, he's playing at home, stadium will be 25% empty, it's an out-of-conference game, and this opponent is very bad and playing for draft position.

He'll probably throw for 275 and 2 TDs plus rush for another.



I don't think he cares about this one bit. It's not like he was victim to a dirty hit.



It's hard to believe that people still think a safety getting tackles is good. Seattle scored 30 points on us -- a full touchdown more than their season average. They scored on their first three possessions. If their offense had knealt on the ball every possession of the second half they still would have had enough points to beat us.

18 tackles is good when it's combined with a sack and two PBUs. He was featured on Packcakes on Monday morning ESPN getting run over by DK Metcalf.



THIS! I don't understand how people can still preach the gospel of a tank when we're literally one year removed from a tank and feeling hopeless again. I'm not in that camp, BTW.

Except no one is preaching the gospel of tank. A lot of us think we can bandaid the QB position with a Fields, get similar offensive production as a Kyler led offense and use the rest of the cap to upgrade around him, while also not sacrificing a massive amount of cap space the following year as well.

 

[cardinals2025]

Kyler splits by month.

December is ugly. Worse on almost every metric.

22-17 in the 1st half of the season.

12-26 in the 2nd half...

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What happens if we go 3-0 and he is 10-13 after this year. Will that even change any minds?

This is one scenario I see happening.

I think this team is now more about Gannon than Kyler and he is not going to allow us to "collapse" vs NE and CAR. As a team, we will win the next 2 games even if it is ugly, even if Kyler doesn't play up to everyone's standards. Then the haters will go away and even if we manage to beat LA or SF, it won't matter. Because we will find a way to lose 1 of the 2 when given a chance to make the playoffs and everyone will blame Kyler for it. So basically, we need to go 4-0 or Kyler will be blamed again, regardless of how we lose, even if he is Superman. This is my point. There is no other option for anyone else to blame if the opposing talent overwhelms us.

That is the part that annoys me and Kyler isn't even my favorite player on the team.

There is no scenario where we go 9-8 where Kyler doesn't get blamed.

But eventually, most people will come around to the fact that we were 4-13 last year and improved that much.

And by free agency next year, most people will be rightfully optimistic again given our massive cap space.

All we need is another WR2 type talent, to go in the slot. Because Petzing just uses Dorch as a decoy now. Then our offense will have enough firepower.

 

[Chopper0080]

Also, what do/did all of those teams have that the Cardinals don't? A solid roster.

 

[Chopper0080]

Nathaniel Hackett is a HOF coach?

lol...yup got my years wrong. Thanks for the fact check.

 

[Chopper0080]

Except no one is preaching the gospel of tank. A lot of us think we can bandaid the QB position with a Fields, get similar offensive production as a Kyler led offense and use the rest of the cap to upgrade around him, while also not sacrificing a massive amount of cap space the following year as well.

Is punting a season (a phrase used in this thread) not advocating for tanking?

 

[cardinals2025]

So many gymnastics to defend Kyler. Wow.

"No, no, those were actually GOOD decisions, just (mumbles the rest)."

I said he made a poor throw. How is that a defense?

Kyler is like my 3rd or 4th favorite player on the team. It is just the hatred is easy to put on the QB when the team lacks other pieces and we can't do anything about it.

I can't imagine some of our fans surviving as Lions fans when Goff throws 5 INTs but they win.

Or when Russell Wilson gets to the Super Bowl after throwing 4 INTs vs GB.

Like how is that possible? The QB HAS TO DO WELL he can't play a bad game and the team still wins!?

Impossible!

The crazy thing is this happens when teams play us but we ignore it.

SEA had 3 turnovers vs us in SEA last year. We had a lead at half with Dobbs and lost the game with 0 turnovers.

Stroud had 4 INTs vs us and we lost.

Like do people against Kyler even register these events in their brains?

How about the Chiefs defense allowing 20 YARDS TOTAL in the 4th quarters of the 9 games they were trailing and came back and won this year?

What is the counter-arguement for that one? "Mahomes didn't need the help though." lmao.

But Kyler throws 2 INTs and no matter what happens, if we lose that game, its his fault.

 

[slanidrac16]

Yep. I get that he needs to move out of the pocket more by design--whether it be by Petzing calling more of those plays or Kyler not audibling out of them--but he has to be TONS better in the pocket. You simply cannot stink in the pocket as a QB and be a good NFL QB.

He never will. That’s why I mentioned in another post he HAS to move. It doesn’t have to be full blown roll outs. However he is a dead man walking dropping straight back because defenses are setting up to keep him there.

 

[BirdGangThing]

Nathaniel Hackett is a HOF coach?

he is when he's playing us

 

[slanidrac16]

You understand that teams rush their ends vs Kyler to contain. That makes rolling out nearly impossible to do consistently.

I’m not suggesting full blown roll outs. Just not straight back. O-line adjust to that direction and makes it a little harder than just “ I’ll me you at the X”.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I said he made a poor throw. How is that a defense?

Kyler is like my 3rd or 4th favorite player on the team. It is just the hatred is easy to put on the QB when the team lacks other pieces and we can't do anything about it.

I can't imagine our fans surviving as Lions fans when Goff throws 5 INTs but they win.
Or when Russell Wilson gets to the Super Bowl after throwing 4 INTs vs GB.

Like how is that possible? The QB HAS TO DO WELL he can't play a bad game and the team still wins!?

Impossible!

These examples always miss their point so badly. You know why fans can withstand the bad Goff game or Wilson game? It’s because they are THE OUTLIER and both of those guys REGULARLY take their teams to the playoffs and have made Super Bowl appearances.

Kyler has nothing in common with any of that kind of success. If he ever did, he’d be given more rope. But every time he has a chance to win big games and get us to the playoffs where he could earn that kind of trust, he faceplants hard with an ugly 0-6 record before this season, now adding this putrid 0-3 streak.

 

[slanidrac16]

I said he made a poor throw. How is that a defense?

Kyler is like my 3rd or 4th favorite player on the team. It is just the hatred is easy to put on the QB when the team lacks other pieces and we can't do anything about it.

I can't imagine some of our fans surviving as Lions fans when Goff throws 5 INTs but they win.

Or when Russell Wilson gets to the Super Bowl after throwing 4 INTs vs GB.

Like how is that possible? The QB HAS TO DO WELL he can't play a bad game and the team still wins!?

Impossible!

The crazy thing is this happens when teams play us but we ignore it.

SEA had 3 turnovers vs us in SEA last year. We had a lead at half with Dobbs and lost the game with 0 turnovers.

Stroud had 4 INTs vs us and we lost.

Like do people against Kyler even register these events in their brains?

How about the Chiefs defense allowing 20 YARDS TOTAL in the 4th quarters of the 9 games they were trailing and came back and won this year?

What is the counter-arguement for that one? "Mahomes didn't need the help though." lmao.

But Kyler throws 2 INTs and no matter what happens, if we lose that game, its his fault.

If we were 11-2 or 10-3 I think Ed we'd all give Kyler a pass on a 3 int game.