Kyler Murray Debate Thread

[TRW]

lol...yup got my years wrong. Thanks for the fact check.

No snark was intended Chop. I didn't look it up and, at my age, I could have misremembered.

 

[Chopper0080]

No snark was intended Chop. I didn't look it up and, at my age, I could have misremembered.

I know you didn't. I do appreciate the correction. I can misremember as well.

 

[Chopper0080]

Not saying full blow

I’m not suggesting full blown roll outs. Just not straight back. O-line adjust to that direction and makes it a little harder than just “ I’ll me you at the X”.

I think it is definitely something that needs to be thrown in, like screens, but it has to be timed perfectly based on edge players getting sloppy.

 

[iLLmatiC]

Arizona media starting to turn on Kyler:

Hey, Kyler Murray: Start winning or start packing. Either way, cheer up

Arizona Cardinals' quarterback has played poorly. His body language and attitude match. Too bad it's his fault the team is losing games.

www.azcentral.com

 

[602 Native]

I said he made a poor throw. How is that a defense?

Kyler is like my 3rd or 4th favorite player on the team. It is just the hatred is easy to put on the QB when the team lacks other pieces and we can't do anything about it.

I can't imagine some of our fans surviving as Lions fans when Goff throws 5 INTs but they win.

Or when Russell Wilson gets to the Super Bowl after throwing 4 INTs vs GB.

Like how is that possible? The QB HAS TO DO WELL he can't play a bad game and the team still wins!?

Impossible!

The crazy thing is this happens when teams play us but we ignore it.

SEA had 3 turnovers vs us in SEA last year. We had a lead at half with Dobbs and lost the game with 0 turnovers.

Stroud had 4 INTs vs us and we lost.

Like do people against Kyler even register these events in their brains?

How about the Chiefs defense allowing 20 YARDS TOTAL in the 4th quarters of the 9 games they were trailing and came back and won this year?

What is the counter-arguement for that one? "Mahomes didn't need the help though." lmao.

But Kyler throws 2 INTs and no matter what happens, if we lose that game, its his fault.

Some are too focused on his hair, that he sits alone on the bench, or my favorite his height.

 

[602 Native]

Arizona media starting to turn on Kyler:

Hey, Kyler Murray: Start winning or start packing. Either way, cheer up

Arizona Cardinals' quarterback has played poorly. His body language and attitude match. Too bad it's his fault the team is losing games.

www.azcentral.com

Love it!

The media should absolutely be calling out our soft teams. For too long we have suffered with crap owners, teams, and soft players.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

If we're going to continue to operate a run first ultra conservative offense, what is the purpose of having a 50M QB?

 

[Chopper0080]

Love it!

The media should absolutely be calling out our soft teams. For too long we have suffered with crap owners, teams, and soft players.

I agree. accountability is good.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Love it!

The media should absolutely be calling out our soft teams. For too long we have suffered with crap owners, teams, and soft players.

Good luck in this town. The only media that gets any attention is Arizona Sports, and they have Wolf on the team payroll. Cheerleaders first, actual reporting and accountability is an afterthought.

 

[Chopper0080]

If we're going to continue to operate a run first ultra conservative offense, what is the purpose of having a 50M QB?

We won't have one until 2026.

Kyler is the 10th highest paid QB right now on a per year average. The difference between Kyler and the 16th/17th highest paid QBs, Carr and Rodgers, is 8.5 mil per year.

Concerns over his contract is a little overstated at this point.

 

[WisconsinCard]

Would you consider this a cherry pick?

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Do you know that Josh Allen and Kyler Murray had similar stats in almost every category going into this year?

These were their career stats prior to this year. Look how close they are in the per game categories. Obviously, Kyler's injuries hurt him in the "totals." But it is absolutely crazy how close their stats have been considering their different situations.

Put Kyler Murray on the Bills right now and tell me he is not better than 6-7.

You can ignore the stats of my last post but the lack of talent around him is obvious in this example too. A reporter actually asked Kyler about this in week one before the game.

Now tell me when Kyler has had any of these things Josh Allen has ALWAYS had...

1. A pro-bowl offensive line

2. A good GM and coach he likes at the same time.

3. A great defense. (The Bills defense has been the best in the league since Josh Allen got drafted btw)


He has never had those things that Allen has had for his entire career. So I find it hard to see the counter-arguement to this one.


The irony of us going to BUF and nearly beating them once we start to give him some help but now fans want to give up on the staff and him is insane.

We started 2-4 and have gone 4-3 to get to 6-7.

How many people would have taken that?

I am not trying to start something with you personally. I am just trying to make the point that Monti had infered a 3 year plan to rebuild. It is good that we have shown flashes of superior play this year. But next year after we take advantage of our large cap space to sign FA's is OUR YEAR. Vegas had us at 7.5 wins and we have a good chance to get 9. People are just upset about WHO we lost to.

But at the end of the day, 8 wins is double our win total from last year. Which is acceptable considering our lack of depth with all our injuries.
If we do manage 9 wins though and miss the playoffs, how can anyone make an argument to tear everything apart?

4-13 to 9-8

And you want to get rid of the QB and/or coaching staff? Other fans on other teams would consider you insane. I'd agree that 7 wins at this point would be alarming and a massive disappointment. But I highly doubt that is going to happen.

The only stat that matters in this entire post is wins and losses. And in the category Josh Allen is by far the better QB.

 

[602 Native]

The only stat that matters in this entire post is wins and losses. And in the category Josh Allen is by far the better QB.

He plays on the better team.

Talk about missing the entire point.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

We won't have one until 2026.

Kyler is the 10th highest paid QB right now on a per year average. The difference between Kyler and the 16th/17th highest paid QBs, Carr and Rodgers, is 8.5 mil per year.

Concerns over his contract is a little overstated at this point.

46M vs. 50M is a distinction without a difference. A guy like Geno is making half of that. If you're not going to build your team around your high priced QB and are going to run an ultra conservative offense, why have a high priced QB in the first place? The value simply isn't there.

 

[WisconsinCard]

He plays on the better team.

Talk about missing the entire point.

Talk about making excuses. Ya his rookie season the 6-10 team was full of studs.

But I knew this was coming. If you want to believe that K1 is as good as Josh Allen more power to you but you're alone on that Cliff.

 

[BirdGangThing]

He plays on the better team.

Talk about missing the entire point.

omg man - you're comparing kyler murray and josh allen too - i believe your intentions to be good and genuine and all but both you and the other guy are actually hurting kyler's cause here

comparing him to other cardinal qbs is one thing but there's at least 15 jock straps kyler can't carry in this league - much less josh allen's

 

[Cheesebeef]

He plays on the better team.

Talk about missing the entire point.

Uh huh… that’s why everyone here and in the media predicted the Bills to fall off this year after suffering major personnel losses to their team. Allen lost his number 1 and 2 WRs and is still playing the best ball of his career and the Bills are once again a Super Bowl contender.

You know why that’’s the case? Because he’s a superstar QB that elevates everyone around him.

 

[DVontel]

I feel bad for Josh Allen. Elite QB but they’ve done him a disservice not getting him defensive help with actually game-breakers on that DL

 

[kerouac9]

What happens if we go 3-0 and he is 10-13 after this year. Will that even change any minds?

It obviously would.

I feel bad for Josh Allen. Elite QB but they’ve done him a disservice not getting him defensive help with actually game-breakers on that DL

Ed Oliver is pretty good? He had Leonard Floyd last year who got 10.5 sacks.

 

[DVontel]

It obviously would.



Ed Oliver is pretty good? He had Leonard Floyd last year who got 10.5 sacks.

Ed Oliver is a solid player, but he wasn’t worth 9th overall pick in the draft. He has been real bad this year. Leonard Floyd has been a good player, but not a game-wrecker & he was only there for a year.

 

[gimpy]

Except you want us to punt on next season, man. You cannot bring back a QB you don't believe in and say it's not punting on the season.

Except bringing back k1 has nothing to do with what ever you or anyone else on here wants it believes. It's what jg believes in and wants.

 

[Stout]

He is inarguably a top 20 QB. That is not "punting" a season.

Hoping to get 7-10 wins and sneak into the playoffs with a choke artist is most definitely punting a season. It screams to me "We have no chance."

 

[Stout]

I struggle that people on this board argue like the only acceptable place to be is winning 4 games or winning multiple playoff games. In hindsight you can argue the Browns moved on from their "Kyler" to get Watson and look where it landed them.

#1 terrible, fallacious comparison. Nice try, framing it as a "support Kyler or it's like getting Watson" nonsense.

#2 Posters don't want a guarantee of winning multiple playoff games but certainly want the possibility of doing so. I don't see Kyler winning one playoff game, if he can even ever manage to sneak into the playoffs. So...

 

[Stout]

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We need to win out obviously but we will be helped most by the Rams beating the Seahawks.

Two scenarios where we could get in...both involve us winning out.

Rams also finish 10-7.

We win division and they take wildcard over WAS.


OR


Seattle beats the Rams and finishes 10-7.

Washington finishes 9-8.

We get into Wildcard at 10-7.


Not sure if there is a way for us to get in with 9 wins.

In other words, it's like that unknown cousin of the famous Haile Selassie: Haile Unlikely. No pressure.

 

[PDXChris]

i dont know if its been brought up:

I think Kyler has a nagging leg injury of some kind. Last two games when he has run, it looks to me to be around 80% of normal speed.

Since the game in Seattle.

 

[Stout]

Seattle has built their team around a top 20 QB in Geno after moving off of a 33 year old QB. That was when they had built the equity of 9 winning season in a row.

Minnesota kept re-signing a old QB in Cousins who couldn't win primetime games until his ask became too high and they could move up for a rookie QB. They had been trying for years to move up for a QB but had to be patient.

Denver had a HOF coach (EDIT: they didn't and see below) who told them to acquire Russ and then told them to dump Russ. Gannon doesn't have that credibility yet. Consider Russ is having a great year for the Steelers.

(EDIT: Broncos acquired Russ in 2022 and then signed Payton as HC in 2023. I flubbed up the years here)

You're right, there's just no way we can upgrade at QB over Kyler for next season