Kyler Murray Debate Thread

[krazy2k]

He was top 15 in most stats, including yards. He is a top 15 all-time QB in their first 3 years. So, yeah, he was golden. The question is, what has happened since and can he get back?

He's become Tin instead of Golden.

 

[AZ Native]

He was top 15 in most stats, including yards. He is a top 15 all-time QB in their first 3 years. So, yeah, he was golden. The question is, what has happened since and can he get back?

Everyone blames KK. Yet those were K1’s best years. Yeah he showed up his coach by yelling at him on national TV telling him to calm down. Kyler was the only one who needed to calm down. Kyler has sucked since then and K1 has done OK with a new QB. He is gone after this year.

 

[Stout]

He was top 15 in most stats, including yards. He is a top 15 all-time QB in their first 3 years. So, yeah, he was golden. The question is, what has happened since and can he get back?

Stats don't win anything. He didn't win anything those first 3 years. I agree that if he had continued that trajectory, sans the choke artist trend, we could have a great one on our hands. He didn't, and hew has not shed the choke artist title. I'm really not sure what happened to the guy, and no, it doesn't feel like he can get back on that trajectory. Even if he did, he'd still have the millstone of choking hanging around his neck.

 

[Stout]

Everyone blames KK. Yet those were K1’s best years. Yeah he showed up his coach by yelling at him on national TV telling him to calm down. Kyler was the only one who needed to calm down. Kyler has sucked since then and K1 has done OK with a new QB. He is gone after this year.

Be easy. A certain segment of the board is just circling back to the "poor Kyler" opinion that is their baseline. It'll pass soon enough.

 

[PDXChris]

Stats don't win anything. He didn't win anything those first 3 years. I agree that if he had continued that trajectory, sans the choke artist trend, we could have a great one on our hands. He didn't, and hew has not shed the choke artist title. I'm really not sure what happened to the guy, and no, it doesn't feel like he can get back on that trajectory. Even if he did, he'd still have the millstone of choking hanging around his neck.

30th all time in win too out of several 100. Looking forward to how you move the goalpost agian! Or you could just acknowledge my original point that his first 3 years were good and he was at one point capable, which is all I was saying.

I'm rooting for him to get back and I've said I'm not sure he can.

 

[Stout]

30th all time in win too out of several 100. Looking forward to how you move the goalpost agian! Or you could just acknowledge my original point that his first 3 years were good and he was at one point capable, which is all I was saying.

I'm rooting for him to get back and I've said I'm not sure he can.

He was good, as I've said. He was never more than that, and not nearly good enough. That's all.

 

[PDXChris]

He was good, as I've said. He was never more than that, and not nearly good enough. That's all.

Thank you! That was all I said and only posted the link because I stumbled across it and it threw me down memory lane. I think this is his last year with as our starter unless he shows he's still capable of those first 3 seasons.

 

[DaHilg]

It is interesting that oddsmakers have only a 63.5% chance of of kyler being in AZ. I really do hope he is traded, both sides need a fresh start.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Be easy. A certain segment of the board is just circling back to the "poor Kyler" opinion that is their baseline. It'll pass soon enough.

But yet you also agree that the OL and WR rooms are not that good.

Both of those rooms being bad has to affect the QB's performance, right?

If one of them is good, K1 has chance to excel.

But both were pretty terrible last year (the o-line in terms of pass protection). You can put up all the stats about "average seconds before pressure", or "7th least sacked" or whatever, but I know what my eyes saw week in and week out.

Most weeks Murry had a good pocket to throw from one or two times a game. A couple of weeks (e.g. against MIN) he had consistently good protection and carved the other team up.

Not saying he didn't choke in big moments Stout, but you can't have bad pass protection and a bad WR room and go "I wonder why our franchise QB started to suck all of a sudden?"

 

[football karma]

Arizona Cardinals Draft Needs, Picks & Mock Draft for 2025

Cardinals team needs, depth charts & draft analysis, identifying positions where the team can improve in the 2025 NFL Draft. Cardinals 2025 roster needs & analysis.

www.sharpfootballanalysis.com

This is probably the most balanced and fact based analysis of the team and Kyler.

and -- the refer to 2024 as the Kyler Murray Rorschach test -- which reviewing this thread you can see

the biggest hole in the Cardinals offense is down the field passing. Sharp's analysis says Kyler hasnt been good at this the last three seasons. Of interest, he was really good at this his first three seasons.

what changed? he went from a WR core of Fitz, Christian Kirk (2019), added Hopkins (2020 and 21) and AJ Green (2021 and 2022). Both Fitz and Hopkins excelled at fades while Kirk had an average depth of target >10 yards.

that turned into Hollywood Brown (2022) and Rondale Moore (2023). Different kinds of WRs. It also didnt help the roster got steadily worse over that time.

 

[602 Native]

Arizona Cardinals Draft Needs, Picks & Mock Draft for 2025

Cardinals team needs, depth charts & draft analysis, identifying positions where the team can improve in the 2025 NFL Draft. Cardinals 2025 roster needs & analysis.

www.sharpfootballanalysis.com

This is probably the most balanced and fact based analysis of the team and Kyler.

and -- the refer to 2024 as the Kyler Murray Rorschach test -- which reviewing this thread you can see

the biggest hole in the Cardinals offense is down the field passing. Sharp's analysis says Kyler hasnt been good at this the last three seasons. Of interest, he was really good at this his first three seasons.

what changed? he went from a WR core of Fitz, Christian Kirk (2019), added Hopkins (2020 and 21) and AJ Green (2021 and 2022). Both Fitz and Hopkins excelled at fades while Kirk had an average depth of target >10 yards.

that turned into Hollywood Brown (2022) and Rondale Moore (2023). Different kinds of WRs. It also didnt help the roster got steadily worse over that time.

Its almost like if you give him weapons he will excel.

Totally shocking I know.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Arizona Cardinals Draft Needs, Picks & Mock Draft for 2025

Cardinals team needs, depth charts & draft analysis, identifying positions where the team can improve in the 2025 NFL Draft. Cardinals 2025 roster needs & analysis.

www.sharpfootballanalysis.com

This is probably the most balanced and fact based analysis of the team and Kyler.

and -- the refer to 2024 as the Kyler Murray Rorschach test -- which reviewing this thread you can see

the biggest hole in the Cardinals offense is down the field passing. Sharp's analysis says Kyler hasnt been good at this the last three seasons. Of interest, he was really good at this his first three seasons.

what changed? he went from a WR core of Fitz, Christian Kirk (2019), added Hopkins (2020 and 21) and AJ Green (2021 and 2022). Both Fitz and Hopkins excelled at fades while Kirk had an average depth of target >10 yards.

that turned into Hollywood Brown (2022) and Rondale Moore (2023). Different kinds of WRs. It also didnt help the roster got steadily worse over that time.

Wait so it's not KM's fault if he can't make accurate throws or throw downfield?

It's the receivers fault

Okay, got it

 

[BirdGangThing]

last two years is all that matters - post petzing - and we still don't know if this qb can be successful with this oc - scheme AND fit - but we're gonna shore up better protection this year - if that doesn't work murray's gotta go

 

[PDXChris]

I found who Kyler should work with to get his down field accuracy back! Look at her 30 yards passing right in the bucket!

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[football karma]

Wait so it's not KM's fault if he can't make accurate throws or throw downfield?

It's the receivers fault

Okay, got it

so for 3 years, he was really good at it (or at least, his stats were really good). After 100% WR turnover, he became bad at it.

I think the types of throws Kyler is good at down the field and what his WRs are good at down the field are a poor match currently

 

[Stout]

But yet you also agree that the OL and WR rooms are not that good.

Both of those rooms being bad has to affect the QB's performance, right?

If one of them is good, K1 has chance to excel.

But both were pretty terrible last year (the o-line in terms of pass protection). You can put up all the stats about "average seconds before pressure", or "7th least sacked" or whatever, but I know what my eyes saw week in and week out.

Most weeks Murry had a good pocket to throw from one or two times a game. A couple of weeks (e.g. against MIN) he had consistently good protection and carved the other team up.

Not saying he didn't choke in big moments Stout, but you can't have bad pass protection and a bad WR room and go "I wonder why our franchise QB started to suck all of a sudden?"

I said the IOL isn't good right now; it was serviceable at least last year, even with the injuries. I said there is one big hole in the WR room, not that the room stinks. We need a speedster.

I absolutely can still wonder why our QB is a choke artist.

 

[football karma]

I said there is one big hole in the WR room, not that the room stinks. We need a speedster.

Kyler seems best with bigger WRs who can make contested catches --- post-prime Fitz, Hop and AJ Green all fit that bill.
Based on that, the best WR to take this draft might be Tet McMillan -- who excels at it

 

[Stout]

Kyler seems best with bigger WRs who can make contested catches --- post-prime Fitz, Hop and AJ Green all fit that bill.
Based on that, the best WR to take this draft might be Tet McMillan -- who excels at it

And if the only he can thrive is by chucking up contested catches for big WRs to make him look good, well, that's not the mark of a good QB.

 

[oaken1]

I found who Kyler should work with to get his down field accuracy back! Look at her 30 yards passing right in the bucket!

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

well come on....if kyler had a backboard he would be fine from 30 yards too

 

[GeorgiaCard88]

I said the IOL isn't good right now; it was serviceable at least last year, even with the injuries. I said there is one big hole in the WR room, not that the room stinks. We need a speedster.

I absolutely can still wonder why our QB is a choke artist.

Not to mention Kyler has one of the best tight ends in the NFL right now- a luxury few QBs have. He’s got the tools to produce- he just needs to do it. If our offense continues to stall out this year I think it’s high time to end the Kyler / petzing debate by getting rid of both of them.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Not to mention Kyler has one of the best tight ends in the NFL right now- a luxury few QBs have. He’s got the tools to produce- he just needs to do it. If our offense continues to stall out this year I think it’s high time to end the Kyler / petzing debate by getting rid of both of them.

Because our offense was bad last year jaja? It didn't produce is what your telling us?