Kyler Murray is a Rookie

[kerouac9]

Because generally speaking the only 2 rookie QB's in the NFL that were openly discussed on this board pre draft were Murray and Haskins.

They had very similar college experience except that Murray played baseball too, but Murray is light years ahead of Haskins right now.

he's not played well at all the last 2 weeks but at least we don't have an announcer on national tv openly suggesting Kyler is faking a limp hoping the coach will take him out of the game which happened today in the Washington game with haskins. Kyler was very confused today by Pittsburgh, threw a terrible INT in the endzone, played very poorly and still looked dramatically better than Haskins.

if we had traded down and picked Haskins I don't think he'd even be playing for us, I think it's pretty obvious right now why Gruden wasn't playing him, he was protecting the kid because he knew he was nowhere near ready, Kyler hasn't gotten that he has been the starter from the second he signed.

Nothing was forcing us to take a QB #1 overall. If we needed to build both lines and add skill position players, we could have gotten a jump start doing so in 2019.

instead we have a guy who is leading the league — absurdly — in sacks and intentional throwaways while also adding nothing with his vaunted elite rushing ability.

Don’t take 1-year starters.

 

[Broseph]

He's a rookie asked to do a lot with very little. This is an elite league and QB is a hard position to play. He's looked like a rookie at times but he's also shown he can ball out. Surround him with some weapons and some elite O-lineman and he will do fine.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

He's a rookie asked to do a lot with very little. This is an elite league and QB is a hard position to play. He's looked like a rookie at times but he's also shown he can ball out. Surround him with some weapons and some elite O-lineman and he will do fine.

I’m betting we could find many similar posts like this last year when it came to Josh Rosen.
That’s not a knock on you but people on here defend Murray like he’s their kid and he can do no wrong.

 

[swagron]

During training camp we were told Murray wasn’t a rookie. Teaching plays, putting vets in the proper spots, doesn’t know how to lose, blah,blah,blah.


NOW, he’s a rookie.

 

[BW52]

It's a time for the told ya so's to come out of the wood work.. but I get it, comes with the territory. I just have to change the way I see it it about them being a little extra when it comes to Kyler and his development.

Since you Murray fanboys constantly tell everyone how great Murray is and is going to be then taking a little grief when he plays like poo is only fair.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I’m betting we could find many similar posts like this last year when it came to Josh Rosen.
That’s not a knock on you but people on here defend Murray like he’s their kid and he can do no wrong.

The difference is that Murray has actually shown some real upside this year and Rosen really didn't.

As to people vehemently defending Murray, I would guess you would see a lot less of it if there weren't so many on the complete opposite side of the spectrum that treat him like the red head stepchild that they never wanted.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Since you Murray fanboys constantly tell everyone how great Murray is and is going to be then taking a little grief when he plays like **** is only fair.

It's posts from guys like you that drive people to make the comments that you are complaining about. You are over the top negative about him and thus people that believe in him are going to come back over the top to match you.

 

[DVontel]

I get talking with K9 & Choppa, but i have no clue why people are still entertaining BW.

 

[Chopper0080]

The difference is that Murray has actually shown some real upside this year and Rosen really didn't.

As to people vehemently defending Murray, I would guess you would see a lot less of it if there weren't so many on the complete opposite side of the spectrum that treat him like the red head stepchild that they never wanted.

Chicken and egg argument.

People who were called idiots for not wanting Murray and would probably be more tolerant if they hadn't been berated too.

Either way, Kyler has not been special so far, and has not made us a significantly better team even if he has shown to be an upgrade over Rosen.

 

[Chopper0080]

I get talking with K9 & Choppa, but i have no clue why people are still entertaining BW.

I will take this compliment.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Chicken and egg argument.

People who were called idiots for not wanting Murray and would probably be more tolerant if they hadn't been berated too.

Either way, Kyler has not been special so far, and has not made us a significantly better team even if he has shown to be an upgrade over Rosen.

He has made us a significantly better offense and that can't be argued against with any stats.

The defense also happens to be much worse this year and that is why the team as a whole isn't a whole lot better. Make no mistake the team is absolutely better all around than last year, but not by nearly as much as they would be if the defense was even average.

 

[Russ Smith]

Nothing was forcing us to take a QB #1 overall. If we needed to build both lines and add skill position players, we could have gotten a jump start doing so in 2019.

instead we have a guy who is leading the league — absurdly — in sacks and intentional throwaways while also adding nothing with his vaunted elite rushing ability.

Don’t take 1-year starters.

Well I said repeatedly I would take Bosa so I don't disagree we didn't HAVE to take him. But I think it's apparent by now they were not high on Rosen and he's done nothing in Miami to make that look bad.

I'm a huge Bosa fan but I'm happy we took Murray. He's a long way from polished but 16 passing TD's and 4 rushing Tds compared to what we got last year from Rosen is pretty impressive for a 1 year starter with a rookie HC who frankly at times has looked totally out of his league in the NFL.

 

[Chopper0080]

He has made us a significantly better offense and that can't be argued against with any stats.

The defense also happens to be much worse this year and that is why the team as a whole isn't a whole lot better. Make no mistake the team is absolutely better all around than last year, but not by nearly as much as they would be if the defense was even average.

Stats without wins are meaningless. I will not dispute that our offense is significantly better, but we still aren't winning games and today's loss had very little to do with the defense.

 

[DVontel]

Chicken and egg argument.

People who were called idiots for not wanting Murray and would probably be more tolerant if they hadn't been berated too.

Either way, Kyler has not been special so far, and has not made us a significantly better team even if he has shown to be an upgrade over Rosen.

I seem to remember more people were called idiots for wanting to move on from Rosen & go for Kyler.

Meanwhile giving Rosen a lot more room of excuses despite never really having a great game.


Take this thread for example: https://www.arizonasportsfans.com/forum/threads/rosen-is-trash.290746/page-6

 

[BW52]

It's posts from guys like you that drive people to make the comments that you are complaining about. You are over the top negative about him and thus people that believe in him are going to come back over the top to match you.

Its Kyler cheerleaders like you who refuse to even admit Murray has bad games or makes costly mistakes.I don`t give a rats ass if you and your fellow Murrayites worship him.....post whatever the hell you want...just don`t get pissed if others post the opposite.As for treating Murray like a redheaded stepchild...I don`t think so.Just because you and some other Murray fanboys adore and worship the ground he walks on...…….that doesn`t mean everyone else does.BTW I was not complaining to Dscher about his posts ..I was teasing him a bit.But don`t let that stop you in your continuing role as the leader of the Murray-Anti-Criticism league.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Stats without wins are meaningless. I will not dispute that our offense is significantly better, but we still aren't winning games and today's loss had very little to do with the defense.

I have to completely disagree with this logic. Wins in a losing season are actually quite meaningless. As in saying a team or QB is no better (regardless of stats) because they didn't win more then the year prior.

This is an offense that was historically bad last year and is about mediocre this year and the only significant changes to the recipe is a rookie coach (who has had some serious struggles this year) and KM. While Kliff has certainly helped the offense with his schemes I don't believe that he has been as big a culprit to the turnaround as Murray.

There are a lot of ways to lose games in the NFL and the way we were doing it last year was the worst (not even competitive in most games). It feels to me that people are struggling with a recency bias and are forgetting just how horrible this team was last year. Regardless of record I can feel very confident in saying this is an overall better team.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Its Kyler cheerleaders like you who refuse to even admit Murray has bad games or makes costly mistakes.I don`t give a rats ass if you and your fellow Murrayites worship him.....post whatever the hell you want...just don`t get pissed if others post the opposite.As for treating Murray like a redheaded stepchild...I don`t think so.Just because you and some other Murray fanboys adore and worship the ground he walks on...…….that doesn`t mean everyone else does.BTW I was not complaining to Dscher about his posts ..I was teasing him a bit.But don`t let that stop you in your continuing role as the leader of the Murray-Anti-Criticism league.

Okay bud...

I LITERALLY stated in a thread today that this loss was mostly Kyler's fault, but nice try...

 

[BW52]

Okay bud...

I LITERALLY stated in a thread today that this loss was mostly Kyler's fault, but nice try...

A rare admission of KM playing poorly doesn`t change you from being a KM apologist BUD.Nice fail .

 

[Arz101]

I have to completely disagree with this logic. Wins in a losing season are actually quite meaningless. As in saying a team or QB is no better (regardless of stats) because they didn't win more then the year prior.

This is an offense that was historically bad last year and is about mediocre this year and the only significant changes to the recipe is a rookie coach (who has had some serious struggles this year) and KM. While Kliff has certainly helped the offense with his schemes I don't believe that he has been as big a culprit to the turnaround as Murray.

There are a lot of ways to lose games in the NFL and the way we were doing it last year was the worst (not even competitive in most games). It feels to me that people are struggling with a recency bias and are forgetting just how horrible this team was last year. Regardless of record I can feel very confident in saying this is an overall better team.

@zeno posted this in another thread.

"According to 98.7...

“Over the last three games, Arizona has averaged 233 yards per game. Last year’s historically bad offense averaged 241.6 yards per contest.”

it really is getting that bad"



Sent from my 6060S using Tapatalk

 

[Cheesebeef]

He has made us a significantly better offense and that can't be argued against with any stats.

The defense also happens to be much worse this year and that is why the team as a whole isn't a whole lot better. Make no mistake the team is absolutely better all around than last year, but not by nearly as much as they would be if the defense was even average.

none of this addressed Chopper's points that during the off-season, the people who weren't crazy about Murray got absolutely trashed up and down the board by a group of posters who mocked them as complete and utter idiots for having any reservations whatsoever.

Placing the lions share of the blame on the same people now for firing back at those who trashed them all off-season either means you weren't paying attention for the last 9 months or are in serious denial.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

A rare admission of KM playing poorly doesn`t change you from being a KM apologist BUD.Nice fail .

I am not a KM apologist. There just hasn't been a whole lot of losses this year that I can truly blame Murray for. When a loss is on him I will absolutely be willing to say it is.

 

[Russ Smith]

One interesting note that showed up again today with DJ playing a bit more. Since DJ got hurt and fell into a rabbit hole it's really impacted our passing game. We were told Drake was a good receiver but he's more of a dumpoff guy in our offense he's averaging only 5 YPC literally half what DJ is averaging. As mad as I am at how DJ is playing and again today the whiff block on the 3rd and 2 bfore the fake punt was infuriating, it is apparent Murray is more comfortable with DJ in there than he is with Drake or Edmonds on passing downs, especially Edmonds who's not a good receiver.

We have to solve that because it's VERY unlikely DJ is going to be a big part of this team going forward, he just doesn't seem to care enough to consistently play hard so it's going to be difficult for him to get out of that penalty box with Kliff. So we're going to have to find a way to either get Murray more comfortable with Drake or Edmonds, or find another receiver because that's really what the issue is, right now DJ is our 3rd best WR behind Kirk and Fitz.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

none of this addressed Chopper's points that during the off-season, the people who weren't crazy about Murray got absolutely trashed up and down the board by a group of posters who mocked them as complete and utter idiots for having any reservations whatsoever.

Placing the lions share of the blame on the same people now for firing back at those who trashed them all off-season either means you weren't paying attention for the last 9 months or are in serious denial.

Meh. Two wrongs don't make a right and a couple bad games don't make the pick a mistake either. Everyone knew that Murray would have some ups and downs this year and nothing that has happened thus far suggest we are dealing with anything other than that.

 

[kerouac9]

Meh. Two wrongs don't make a right and a couple bad games don't make the pick a mistake either. Everyone knew that Murray would have some ups and downs this year and nothing that has happened thus far suggest we are dealing with anything other than that.

Honestly: what are the ups? A quarter here and there?

 

[Card'em]

@zeno posted this in another thread.

"According to 98.7...

“Over the last three games, Arizona has averaged 233 yards per game. Last year’s historically bad offense averaged 241.6 yards per contest.”

it really is getting that bad"



Sent from my 6060S using Tapatalk

Why compare this year's team's last 3 games to last year's team's average for the entire 16 games? The last 3 games have been against very strong defenses...San Francisco, L.A. Rams, and Pittsburg. For the year this year's team was averaging 332 yards per game compared to last year's average of 242 yards. This would be the more accurate compariston.