Kyler's inability to throw on the run is a real issue

[kerouac9]

Ok. Sample size is small. Does that matter? If small quys start to dominate the position in the future and start showing incredible accuracy on the run I'll maybe have a different opinion...

It does if that's your main and only point. It's probably better to say that throwing accurately on the run is extremely difficult and you'd prefer that every QB takes a second to set his feet before throwing, whether in the pocket or out.

I wouldn't be surprised to find out that Kyler spends hours a week repping those on the run throws. As I said earlier, I don't really have any concerns about Kyler's ability to put the ball where he wants it.

 

[dscher]

to say that throwing accurately on the run is extremely difficult and you'd prefer that every QB takes a second to set his feet before throwing, whether in the pocket or out.

Yes ..IMO He will never be amazing at it on the move, which was my point.... He won't be able to make those throws that some of the larger more mobile quarterbacks with longer arms and bigger hands can on the move.(Watson, Mahomes) I think Russell can get away with it because he has those physical attributes that Kyler doesn't. Ie. Bigger hands, longer arms.

 

[Chopper0080]

Can we just acknowledge that these NFL DCs are throwing things at Kyler that he has never seen before week in and week out? To further that point, these DCs have had months to study what Kyler has shown over 16 games and are now taking things away that he likes to do and forcing him to do things he doesn't like.

Kyler has established that he can be an average NFL QB three games into year 2. When compared to San Darnold, Josh Rosen, Baker Mayfield, Daniel Jones, and Dwayne Haskins...I am REALLY happy. Compared to Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen, I think he is on pace to potentially get there.

 

[kerouac9]

Can we just acknowledge that these NFL DCs are throwing things at Kyler that he has never seen before week in and week out? To further that point, these DCs have had months to study what Kyler has shown over 16 games and are now taking things away that he likes to do and forcing him to do things he doesn't like.

Kyler has established that he can be an average NFL QB three games into year 2. When compared to San Darnold, Josh Rosen, Baker Mayfield, Daniel Jones, and Dwayne Haskins...I am REALLY happy. Compared to Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen, I think he is on pace to potentially get there.

Compared to one, not the other. Kyler's probably already better than Josh Allen. Lamar Jackson is the reigning NFL MVP and was 5th in passing DVOA last year (sorry, racists).

I am surprised to look back and see that Jackson started off a little slow from an efficiency perspective in 2019. I agree that patience is warranted.

The good news from a Cards fan perspective is that the defense is currently 9th in DVOA and the offense is 24th overall and 25th passing. I expect that to change pretty quickly and pretty significantly.

The season is still young! No need to panic.

 

[GatorAZ]

Can we just acknowledge that these NFL DCs are throwing things at Kyler that he has never seen before week in and week out? To further that point, these DCs have had months to study what Kyler has shown over 16 games and are now taking things away that he likes to do and forcing him to do things he doesn't like.

Kyler has established that he can be an average NFL QB three games into year 2. When compared to San Darnold, Josh Rosen, Baker Mayfield, Daniel Jones, and Dwayne Haskins...I am REALLY happy. Compared to Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen, I think he is on pace to potentially get there.

OT but where are we on Sam? I loved him coming out but he looks like a hot mess right now. Maybe it’s a Gase/organization issue...

 

[Chopper0080]

OT but where are we on Sam? I loved him coming out but he looks like a hot mess right now. Maybe it’s a Gase/organization issue...

Gase ruins everything he touches. Darnold is probably too broken to ever be a great NFL QB, but I would not be shocked if his career turns once he gets away from Gase.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Kyler's interceptions this year are, at least to me, a bit concerning.

2 deflected balls - No issue here. It happens.

3 over the middle of the field...... I see these as all being part of the same overall problem. He's not seeing all of the robbers and safety help within his line of sight.

Watching him throw outside of the hash marks continues to be a sight to behold. The work with Nuk, the TD's to Andy, and many of his truly spectacular throws have been outside of the hashes.

He needs to do a better job diagnosing what is going on in between the hash marks, and reducing the amount of lazy interceptions because he can't see the safety biting up.

Remember...... This kid is still learning, but this was easily a bottom 5 game for him in the NFL so far. And we still probably could have won it. In short: the sky is not falling.

Something I am done with....... Keesean Johnson getting good playing time at WR. He's below the mean for an NFL quality WR IMO.

My only issue with this take is that some of those suspect reads over the middle have happened when he has a clear lane of vision to the target. Most of the time he isn’t throwing or even looking directly over the top of the line.

Also only like one of his 5 picks this year (and the dropped pick last week) were actually situations where it seemed like he didn’t see the defender. One was a tipped ball, one he got his arm hit while throwing, another was a simple overthrow and one was thrown behind the receiver. Most of that had little or nothing to do with vision.

 

[SoonerLou]

Such a weird interception. Was it the defender in his face that made him not lead Hopkins? Just such a poor throw

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Like this manipulation, but the ball just sails off one leg.

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More I watch this play..

Obviously stared it down. However, seems like he saw the safety step up and thought he get it to Keesean deep. The issue is the safety is so far away from Isabella that Isabella is still best option.

Killer part is that Kyler clearly underestimates how slow KJ is. Obviously a poor decision, but the placement is fine....if you got a wr that can run. Might have been a contested catch if thats Kirk.

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@BritCard

 

[GoldGloveschmidt]

It looks like that ball lands a foot or two away from KeeSean. He made no effort to get it.

 

[TaylorSwift]

It looks like that ball lands a foot or two away from KeeSean. He made no effort to get it.

He was a low round pick for a reason


He can't track the deep ball

 

[Passepartout]

Yeah as maybe he needs to fix on that. As tha tis a weakness but other than that, this team has potential there. But should had won over the Lions last week.

 

[BritCard]

Such a weird interception. Was it the defender in his face that made him not lead Hopkins? Just such a poor throw

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Like this manipulation, but the ball just sails off one leg.

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More I watch this play..

Obviously stared it down. However, seems like he saw the safety step up and thought he get it to Keesean deep. The issue is the safety is so far away from Isabella that Isabella is still best option.

Killer part is that Kyler clearly underestimates how slow KJ is. Obviously a poor decision, but the placement is fine....if you got a wr that can run. Might have been a contested catch if thats Kirk.

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@BritCard

I've watched that last play a few times and you are right, the ball placement was ok. It wasn't intended to go to KJ in double coverage where it might be intercepted. It was thrown into space so KJ could adjust to the ball and it wasn't in danger of getting picked off. Someone like Metcalf, Hopkins, or even Fitz would have caught it.

Which begs the question, if your going to play KJ outside why not play Fitz there? They are probably around the same speed and at least Fitz can do everything you want.

Either way it was a bad decision with Andy wide open.

I don't agree with the guys comments on the Okudah interception as if Okudah bated him. That was just a bad throw. It was slightly behind and too low. If that's higher and thrown with anticipation then Okudah doesn't get near it.

 

[SoonerLou]

I've watched that last play a few times and you are right, the ball placement was ok. It wasn't intended to go to KJ in double coverage where it might be intercepted. It was thrown into space so KJ could adjust to the ball and it wasn't in danger of getting picked off. Someone like Metcalf, Hopkins, or even Fitz would have caught it.

Which begs the question, if your going to play KJ outside why not play Fitz there? They are probably around the same speed and at least Fitz can do everything you want.

Either way it was a bad decision with Andy wide open.

I don't agree with the guys comments on the Okudah interception as if Okudah bated him. That was just a bad throw. It was slightly behind and too low. If that's higher and thrown with anticipation then Okudah doesn't get near it.

Even the 2nd down play call. Back shoulder fade to KJ. Why not move Fitz outside and throw that to him? Fitz likely catches the ball through contact. Its not like KJ is some blazer.

 

[BritCard]

Even the 2nd down play call. Back shoulder fade to KJ. Why not move Fitz outside and throw that to him? Fitz likely catches the ball through contact. Its not like KJ is some blazer.

Exactly, a fraction of KJ's routes are go routes anyway. The routes that don't rely on pace but timing could go to Fitz. Heck, we even through a comeback to Arnold with him lined up wide right that could have been to Fitz.

 

[SoonerLou]

ARIZONA CARDINALS
KYLER MURRAY
Biggest weakness: Intermediate (10-19-yard) pass game

The intermediate range is the “money zone” for the top NFL quarterbacks, but Murray has struggled where many excel. His 54.2 passing grade on throws to the intermediate range is by far the worst in the league since 2019, and he has just three big-time throws against nine turnover-worthy throws, while the rest of the league is working at more of a 1-to-1 ratio in that range. Murray also has work to do when it comes to avoiding unnecessary sacks, but figuring out the intermediate passing game is the real key to taking the next step toward stardom.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-quarte...eaknesses-for-all-32-of-the-2020-starting-qbs

Seems obvious to me that Kyler has a hard time seeing intermediate throws. Its why if he improves his ability to throw on the run it makes up for it some.

 

[SoonerLou]

2 throws made by Lamar that I keep waiting for Kyler to make. Rolling to his right, rolling left finding guys downfield for TDs.

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[SoonerLou]

This was the kind of play I've been waiting for.

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[GatorAZ]

He’ll break a big one soon. I mean if Daniel Jones can...

 

[football karma]

This was the kind of play I've been waiting for.

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look at Fitz on that play.......

 

[SoonerLou]

He’ll break a big one soon. I mean if Daniel Jones can...

Long strides > short strides when trying to break big runs. Its why Lamar breaks longer runs.

I think Jones just caught that Eagles team napping though.

I hope Kliff is studying tape on Goff/Rams. They make throwing on the run and horizonal passes an art. Thats how it should be done if we're going to do that stuff.

 

[SoonerLou]

look at Fitz on that play.......

Tough to tell if there was a corner sinking on that play/angle.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Long strides > short strides when trying to break big runs. Its why Lamar breaks longer runs.

I think Jones just caught that Eagles team napping though.

I hope Kliff is studying tape on Goff/Rams. They make throwing on the run and horizonal passes an art. Thats how it should be done if we're going to do that stuff.

Pretty sure Kyler has a higher top speed than Jones regardless of stride length. Jones just had a wide open field to run into where as teams almost never give Kyler that kind of running room.

 

[SoonerLou]

Pretty sure Kyler has a higher top speed than Jones regardless of stride length. Jones just had a wide open field to run into where as teams almost never give Kyler that kind of running room.

Was talking about Lamar at first, but yea DJ has cracked 20 MPH more than any QB this year outside of Lamar. Kyler's just did it once.

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I dont think he's faster than Kyler. I was talking about Lamar in regards to that. I also think Kyler doesnt hit 20 MPH as much because of the pace we play at. He's constantly moving, running plays, making throws, etc. So he's not going to be at top speed a lot. However, his endurance hurts teams in the 4th.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Was talking about Lamar at first, but yea DJ has cracked 20 MPH more than any QB this year outside of Lamar. Kyler's just did it once.

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I dont think he's faster than Kyler. I was talking about Lamar in regards to that. I also think Kyler doesnt hit 20 MPH as much because of the pace we play at. He's constantly moving, running plays, making throws, etc. So he's not going to be at top speed a lot. However, his endurance hurts teams in the 4th.

I would love to see him actually get an open lane to sprint like 40-50 yards to the end zone. Usually even on his longest runs he is running through traffic so he can’t simply get out and sprint straight ahead. Jones on the other hand will at times be left completely open lanes to sprint through as he isn’t perceived as the same kind of run threat as Kyler.

Though it is impressive that he has gotten to that speed for sure. That’s faster than I would have assumed.

 

[SoonerLou]

Agree with @LoyaltyisaCurse post from the game thread though that if this is his worst attribute than we shouldnt call those plays for him in critical situations.

Hopefully he improves throwing on the run though.