Lebron Opts Out/Becomes Free Agent

[Superbone]

I don't think Lebron would view Phoenix as a place where he can achieve his likely goal, to be the best player to play the game.

Why not? I think if he won a championship in Phoenix it would cement his legacy.

 

[Mainstreet]

Why not? I think if he won a championship in Phoenix it would cement his legacy.

IMO, his legacy would be better cemented in a large, prominent market. One can only imagine if Lebron went to the Knicks and delivered them some Championships after all the years they have been stuck in the mire. The media would make him a legend there, even more so than in Miami.

 

[AzStevenCal]

IMO, his legacy would be better cemented in a large, prominent market. One can only imagine if Lebron went to the Knicks and delivered them some Championships after all the years they have been stuck in the mire. The media would make him a legend there, even more so than in Miami.

I understand what you're saying but I think there is a good possibility that going to New York and winning a championship there will put more credit at Phil's feet than Lebron's.

Steve

 

[sunsfan88]

It's hilarious to me that LeBron is a "douchebag".

Please tell me when he killed, raped, or got a DUI, or assaulted someone. Someone please show me when he got arrested.

He has way more class in him than any other superstar in the game right now.

You can't hate on him cause the media hypes him up so much. He isn't paying them to do that. I have noticed that all his interviews since coming to Miami, he tries to keep it short and avoid the media. It's not his fault that everyone wants to blame him or praise him for Miami's success and failures.

 

[AzStevenCal]

It's hilarious to me that LeBron is a "douchebag".

Please tell me when he killed, raped, or got a DUI, or assaulted someone. Someone please show me when he got arrested.

He has way more class in him than any other superstar in the game right now.

You can't hate on him cause the media hypes him up so much. He isn't paying them to do that. I have noticed that all his interviews since coming to Miami, he tries to keep it short and avoid the media. It's not his fault that everyone wants to blame him or praise him for Miami's success and failures.

I agree with your message but I think you're selling several players short here (Kevin Durant, Tim Duncan and many others).

Steve

 

[JCSunsfan]

It's hilarious to me that LeBron is a "douchebag".

Please tell me when he killed, raped, or got a DUI, or assaulted someone. Someone please show me when he got arrested.

He has way more class in him than any other superstar in the game right now.

You can't hate on him cause the media hypes him up so much. He isn't paying them to do that. I have noticed that all his interviews since coming to Miami, he tries to keep it short and avoid the media. It's not his fault that everyone wants to blame him or praise him for Miami's success and failures.

LeBron James is the most complete basketball player in the history of the league, maybe with the exception of Magic Johnson. He doesn't seem to have the competitive fire of a Michael Jordan but he will eventually be considered one of the top two or three players in the history of the game.

He had a stupid stretch in his career when he got bad advice from those around him and acted immaturely with "the decision" and all that surrounded it. It was what, 4 years ago now. They got two championships, but it did not turn into the dynasty that everyone thought it would be. The Spurs win this year took the edge off my hard feelings over "the decision" because there is this sense that karma had its way.

I am glad to see Miami fail, not because I hate LeBron, but because I am a Suns fan and the break up of that team works in the Suns favor. And I would be just fine if the Suns signed LeBron.

 

[CardsFan88]

Decided to slightly break some stuff down, most just impressions, guesses, blurbs from media, and breaking down some false assumptions.

It may be hard for the Clippers to do anything without proper ownership in the midst of a legal struggle.

I don't see Houston in the mix, but if they are, it's possible we can facilitate it and the media was saying Harden would be the one out. I wouldn't mind him here. The problem would then be we have Goran, Bledsoe, Harden. So Goran or Bledsoe would have to go. So it wouldn't make a ton of sense unless we can get a 3rd team to take one our PG's off our hands and land someone else worthy of it. How much is Howard a distraction and can he mesh with Lebron? I don't know. Maybe others do. Lebron certainly knows. If not Harden, then they'd have to get rid of Asik and his salary. It's possible, but not very likely at this point.

I'm not so sure about Cleveland, because of the owner, but aside from that, if that isn't an issue, they would be solidly in the mix. It would seemingly make his wife happy, and that might be the most important thing in his life after winning two championships. We shouldn't underestimate that. I can even see her saying 'get over it' about Gilbert's comments because SHE wants to live in Ohio, and him doing so.

Too much stuff stinks in Miami.
-Riley's comments
-Miami's owner going $arver by getting rid of Miller
-Lack of any good young talent there... another knock on Riley (Beasley twice? lol)
-Different agents situation (and possibly his former agent's have an axe to grind)
-Lebron opting out, but the others haven't (and other complexities, like Wade would not get anything close to what he has right now)
-The big three haven't had a meeting
-Lebron's wife's instagram blurb
-The scuttlebutt that Lebron had mentally checked out during his exit interview

I think I'm forgetting some more stuff too. In the end maybe none of this matters, but the fact that he did all this, and did it specifically at a time to give other teams time to make their best shot at him, to me, means he is absolutely serious about leaving. You don't give others a best shot to get you if you're interested in most likely staying. They have a shot, but I think it's far lower then people expect. Nothing about the situation seems coordinated at all. The above doesn't sound like a situation that would have Miami be the favorites. You can't count them out, but imo it really doesn't look good at all.

I hate $arver, but has he truly learned? I said when he took over the team that I hope he didn't destroy our team only to learn how bad the decision was years later and having to suffer through his idiotic early ownership ramifications.

Well, here we stand after going through ALL that. I don't know if he's changed. He's trying to say the right things the last year or two, and maybe he has. I'll only believe it when I see it, but if he has learned, now is the time to start showing it, and the proof would be in keeping whatever he builds now, together. We'll see. But it is a good sign if he sticks to it. As I mentioned before $arver's problem was he would tinker to get better, then tinker to get cheaper. Rinse. Repeat. Each time making us worse. In the end he didn't save money. He destroyed our team. So if he is being hands off, and isn't changing everything, and staying out of the limelight, and becomes consistent, he may turn out to not be such a bad owner. As of now I still hate his gut$, but I'll try to see the good in him.

I don't see the Lakers as legit. I think personally they are in for a world of hurt. The Lakers era is over, because the owner who made that era is dead, and no one around now in LA is anywhere near Jerry Buss's quality. They are devoid of top shelf talent, besides an aging and oft-injured Kobe, who they just needlessly made their team worse by re-signing Kobe unnecessarily to an expensive, long contract. That Laker aura is over, and I don't see it coming back anytime soon. Lakers are one of the worst teams in the league, and I don't see him going there.

Chicago? It is intriguing, and maybe Jordan's legacy is a problem, and maybe not. But I'm just not impressed with Chicago. I see them underachieving, injury prone, and they seemed to have peaked out 2010-11 and 11-12 and have gone downward since. (of course Rose's injury had a lot to do with that). But again, they are also in the east, so most of their games are against scrubs anyways, so underachieving against scrubs...
14-15 15-16 16-17
$63,402,653 $41,993,064 $30,273,252

That's their cap situation as of right now. So they would need to make some moves. Again if we can contribute and get something in return, great. But they are going to need help. They can't sign him unless trading away people first (or sign-and-trade with Miami, which they said they are unwilling to do...most likely).

The fools on ESPN said New York and Brooklyn. Sorry. Neither have any hope of getting him. They'd need massive trades, especially Brooklyn and I doubt few would take on those contracts. Melo opted out, so Lebron could come in? I don't know if they'll play together, but if Melo doesn't want to play in NY, I doubt Lebron would. Maybe in a couple years Phil can resurrect the Knicks. I can see the Lebron-Phil angle, but I just don't think it's good timing. Plus as we saw early on Phil was held back by ownership, so he may not have the power we think he has.

Dallas is intriguing. Pair him with Dirk, plus they have a ton of capspace. I think they are a dark horse. Dirk + Lebron would be good for a couple of years.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Kerr take a swing in Golden State, but not many superstars are going to want to play in Oakland. They'd have to trade some salaries, but that might happen if they get Love. They have some talent people want, and a Love trade could clear the salary needed for Lebron if it included Lee, Igoudala, Thompson/Barnes. Curry and Lebron would be quite a show. Curry/Love/Lebron would be amazing. But they need to get Love to make it work.

I also don't know why people think Lebron would let others make his decisions for him. Some of the dumbest people in the country work for the media. Only Lebron knows what he needs or wants, and Lebron should use some logic in making his decision. If it's about his legacy, then he would be sacrificing it to just willy-nilly listen to ESPN morons. I think if anything this is the time he's going to use his head. Last time it was all about that collusion. Now with him almost 30, and that experience behind him, with less pressure having won two rings, he can now purely focus on what is the best situation for him. The only thing I see as a legitimate reason for him bypassing the best decision is his wife. Maybe I'm wrong. But if he wants to see who can do what, and opens it up early for teams to make the best pitch, I think that showcase a desire to let LOGIC (or something like that) lead him to his next location. Why say that if you are going to let the idiot media decide for you? That simply makes no sense imo.

IMO he should be considering Dallas, Golden State, and Phx. I can understand CLE as well because it's home. I can see the pull of Chicago. I can see the desire in Clipperland and Houston, but I think that's far fetched because of their situations.

Mia despite everything else could be in the mix, but I think the writing is on the wall that he's most likely gone. Though they have a shot if they make some moves. If they don't make big moves, I think he's 100 percent gone. He's not going through all this just to re-sign as if nothing happened.

As for PHX and why he couldn't come here I need to say people are overlooking some important facts.

We HAVE successfully had Barkley, Shaq, Nash, Amare, and a whole slew of lower level guys. If Lebron wants to know how it is in PHX, he has tons of people he can talk to who were on a similar level as him.

While the past few years, because of $arver, we haven't been a destination, historically we are one of the best. If $arver has changed his tune, and that's an if, we can return to being on of the best. We are the franchise that signed the 1st free agent. We have had numerous people come here and take discounts to play here. We have that training staff. One reason we're so popular is because during the Summer, NBA players can go ANYWHERE they want, bypassing our heat, but during the season PHX has some of the best weather.

Plus when it comes to endorsements, it doesn't matter. It simply doesn't. People are forgetting a couple of things about Lebron compared to other people. You see the run of the mill, low level star wishing to INCREASE his stardom, will sometimes want to go to a big market so they can cash in. Lebron doesn't have to worry about that.

He was a national, if not world wide star day 1 in the NBA, thus there is absolutely no reason he can't sign ANYWHERE in the NBA, and still continue to cash in big time on his celebrity. The world isn't going to forget Lebron because he is in Phx. They would come to him.

So endorsements will not be a factor, because he'll get the same national and worldwide endorsement deals no matter where he lands. The local ones will be heavy wherever, and right now anyone who wants Lebron in an ad locally can do it no matter where he is. If he's in New Orleans, a NYC local endorsement deal can still easily happen.

So no, I don't think the media or endorsement angle will have any impact. He'd be a fool to let idiots make up his mind for him. We'll see.

I also see a lot of teams trying to jump in, and it's possible half a dozen teams who have no shot to get him, make moves, and hopefully if we're not in the running, we take advantage.

Dallas, Golden State, Cleveland, and US. I think that's the best four, barring some trade or series of trades that alters things (Rockets, Clippers). Maybe someone can make a claim for Portland or Denver. Of course Bulls/Heat.

I don't agree with him wanting to stay in the EAST, it's fools gold. If you want to know where your team stands, if you want to prepare yourself for the playoffs, if you want to be against the best to bring the best out in you and your team, only the West can do that. The EAST flat out sucks.

I don't know where he goes. I think we have a good shot, because the reason people hold against us are not really anything that is against us.

As I said before, get Lebron or no, I want our GM to take advantage of the situation and use the process to get better.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Plus when it comes to endorsements, it doesn't matter. It simply doesn't. People are forgetting a couple of things about Lebron compared to other people. You see the run of the mill, low level star wishing to INCREASE his stardom, will sometimes want to go to a big market so they can cash in. Lebron doesn't have to worry about that.

But it does. Or at least, it can. Sure, Lebron is a world wide star but where do you think Coca Cola, McDonalds, Nike and his other sponsors would prefer he play, New York or Minnesota? If he plays in New York, Nike would likely see a huge spike in purchases from that fan base. Moving from Minnesota to Phoenix might not impact McDonalds revenues all that much but in Miami or moving him to New York versus moving him to a true small market could be significant. Keep in mind that there are agents involved and they make quite a bit of their money from their star's endorsements.

Steve

 

[HooverDam]

One thing I haven't heard anyone discuss is the Colangelo- LeBron connection via USA Basketball. Colangelo isn't still a Suns owner, but he is a Phoenician through and through and is of course a Suns fan. I wonder if he'd get in LeBrons ear about 'why Phoenix' if he thought it was a possibility. He could certainly call LeBron and tell him that Phoenix is a nice place, he's not affiliated with a team, so its not tampering.

It's a minor thing, but something to think about I suppose.

Again, still VERY long odds for PHX, but there's a chance!

But it does. Or at least, it can. Sure, Lebron is a world wide star but where do you think Coca Cola, McDonalds, Nike and his other sponsors would prefer he play, New York or Minnesota? If he plays in New York, Nike would likely see a huge spike in purchases from that fan base. Moving from Minnesota to Phoenix might not impact McDonalds revenues all that much but in Miami or moving him to New York versus moving him to a true small market could be significant. Keep in mind that there are agents involved and they make quite a bit of their money from their star's endorsements.

Steve

That stuff doesn't matter nearly as much anymore. Kevin Durant is a world wide superstar in OKLAHOMA CITY.

The NBA does just fine when the Suns are good, see the Barkley and Nash eras. Phoenix is a young city that few other fan bases have ill will towards, and the Suns have almost always played a fun, up tempo style. When the Suns are good, they're often every other fan bases 2nd favorite team. LeBron wouldn't be hurting himself endorsement wise if he came here, it certainly didn't harm Barkley.

 

[Mainstreet]

I understand what you're saying but I think there is a good possibility that going to New York and winning a championship there will put more credit at Phil's feet than Lebron's.

Steve

You can change the name to another large media market city, such as Chicago or whomever.

 

[AzStevenCal]

That stuff doesn't matter nearly as much anymore. Kevin Durant is a world wide superstar in OKLAHOMA CITY.

The NBA does just fine when the Suns are good, see the Barkley and Nash eras. Phoenix is a young city that few other fan bases have ill will towards, and the Suns have almost always played a fun, up tempo style. When the Suns are good, they're often every other fan bases 2nd favorite team. LeBron wouldn't be hurting himself endorsement wise if he came here, it certainly didn't harm Barkley.

Any chance you just guessed what I was saying and didn't actually read what I wrote? I ask because your response isn't all that relevant to my point. Yes, a player can become a huge star anywhere these days. They can get the endorsements. But you also have to look at the Sponsor and the agents involved.

It seems clear to me that Nike would rather dominate the New York market with their next Lebron shoe than dominate the Cleveland market with that same shoe. Also, agents are limited to how much they can get when they negotiate NBA contracts but they make a lot of money off of the Sponsor deals and they want every penny they can get their hands on.

Steve

 

[CardsFan88]

But it does. Or at least, it can. Sure, Lebron is a world wide star but where do you think Coca Cola, McDonalds, Nike and his other sponsors would prefer he play, New York or Minnesota? If he plays in New York, Nike would likely see a huge spike in purchases from that fan base. Moving from Minnesota to Phoenix might not impact McDonalds revenues all that much but in Miami or moving him to New York versus moving him to a true small market could be significant. Keep in mind that there are agents involved and they make quite a bit of their money from their star's endorsements.

Steve

I understand that angle, but we have to remember that what Nike likes, doesn't really influence Lebron. I can maybe see some influence if his current contract is up, but other then that, they probably hold no power, and shouldn't anyways. But why are we so sure it's best for Nike that he's in NY?

Lebron right now can retort that he has helped make them massively richer, and he did so even while playing in Cleveland. Again, if he uses his head, no endorsement should come into play. His legacy isn't selling shoes for Nike, but playing basketball, and in any of these other cities, including Phoenix, Nike sales could go up massively. But his basketball playing is THE KEY to selling shoes, not location.

Also Nike would be asking him to pick a place based on a guess. A guess that I actually think Nike would not make.

If anything that data suggests it might sell LESS shoes or have FLAT sales if he goes to NY. More, maybe in NYC, but far less worldwide. In other words, he should make a basketball decision, not an endorsement decision.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbad...on-and-durant-are-the-nbas-top-shoe-salesman/

James remains the NBA’s leading shoe salesman. Nike sold $300 million of his signature sneakers last year, as he picked up his fourth MVP trophy and second NBA title. Sales were flat versus the prior year after a 50% jump in 2012. James is the NBA’s leading endorser pulling in $42 million a year and Nike represents his biggest paycheck at an estimated $20 million a year.

So as you see winning titles sells shoes. Him going to a place and winning a title

So true, Nike would love to have it's cake and eat it too. Go to NYC and win a title. But that isn't likely to happen. He should make a basketball decision, because it turns out the basketball decision is most likely going to be his best business decision, and be best for all parties involved.


He shouldn't care about his agent, but again, he is a worldwide star, he is not short on endorsements. It wouldn't surprise me to find out that Lebron turns down endorsements because he simply doesn't have the time to schedule them. His national and worldwide appeal and endorsements dwarf any local endorsements, even that of NYC. No matter what locale he goes to, he'll have tons of opportunity.

Good basketball decisions make good business decisions, and he shouldn't upset the apple cart. Wherever he goes, if he goes, there will be an upswing of shoe sales locally, but nationally and worldwide, which is a much bigger piece of the pie, Nike should want him to win, because that will lead to much bigger overall sales. NYC can't spike Lebron shoe sales by 50 percent, but winning a championship in Timbuktu could.

 

[AzStevenCal]

You can change the name to another large media market city, such as Chicago or whomever.

I agree with you that the large media market has the advantage. There are some issues with a few of them though. In Chicago for example, he'll always be compared to Jordan and he'll be competing against that legacy. And the same with Lakerland/Kobe and Clippers/Sterling. I'd rule Dallas out because of Dirk's age. I could see Philadelphia as a good landing point except they don't yet have the pieces to entice him there. Golden State, Washington and maybe Atlanta make some sense.

Steve

 

[slinslin]

Look how big Lebron made Miami, they were not even close to the level of the Phoenix Suns before him even with their fluke championship.
Suns would be big time again with Lebron, like in the Nash and Barkley days.

 

[sunsfan88]

I hope we do make a pitch for LeBron and I hope they video tape it like they did back when we swayed Gordon to sign here and when we got Dragic back here.

 

[Superbone]

The worst things LeBron did by far were "the decision" and "the pre-celebration ceremony" when he got to Miami ("Not one, not two, not three..."). Boy did they rub me the wrong way and obviously a lot of others. Those alone are very hard to recover from.

 

[JCSunsfan]

But it does. Or at least, it can. Sure, Lebron is a world wide star but where do you think Coca Cola, McDonalds, Nike and his other sponsors would prefer he play, New York or Minnesota? If he plays in New York, Nike would likely see a huge spike in purchases from that fan base. Moving from Minnesota to Phoenix might not impact McDonalds revenues all that much but in Miami or moving him to New York versus moving him to a true small market could be significant. Keep in mind that there are agents involved and they make quite a bit of their money from their star's endorsements.

Steve

I disagree. It might make a difference in the sale of team merchandise, but with big ticket advertising like Coke, McDonalds, and Nike, it wouldn't matter at all. All an athlete really does with those products is grab attention and LeBron will do that no matter where he plays.

It didn't matter where Jordan played. Every kid wanted AirJordan's--no matter what their home town team was. LeBron is now on that level.

 

[AzStevenCal]

The worst things LeBron did by far were "the decision" and "the pre-celebration ceremony" when he got to Miami ("Not one, not two, not three..."). Boy did they rub me the wrong way and obviously a lot of others. Those alone are very hard to recover from.

They rubbed me the wrong way too. Also, reports about his behavior with the 2004 National team left a sour taste. I'm not suggesting we should all jump on the Lebron bandwagon, merely that the backlash is disproportionate to his "crimes".

I think, all things considered, he's been a very good ambassador for the game. Most of the time, I like what he says and how he comports himself. His youth and his ego still rise to the forefront occasionally but he's not the only one that pushes my buttons in that regard.

He's a team player, he works hard in the offseason and he's a dedicated student of the game. IMO, there is far more to like and respect about him than there is to hate. I'm still going to hate on him a little bit, every time he says something about how special he is (the Mt Rushmore comment was absurd) but as I said before, most of my Lebron-hate is petty.

Steve

 

[CardsFan88]

I disagree. It might make a difference in the sale of team merchandise, but with big ticket advertising like Coke, McDonalds, and Nike, it wouldn't matter at all. All an athlete really does with those products is grab attention and LeBron will do that no matter where he plays.

It didn't matter where Jordan played. Every kid wanted AirJordan's--no matter what their home town team was. LeBron is now on that level.

Winning is more important then location.

So if you choose a bigger locale and don't win sales slump.

If you choose a smaller locale and do win, sales jump.

I agree Lebron is this generation's Jordan, and it really doesn't matter where he plays, he's going to be a massive sale win/lose/draw.

But if he chooses a location that gives him the best shot to win, and wins, he'll make far more money for those he has endorsement deals, because winning drives sales.

Winning is the best business decision, and NY is not the place to win. Not right now at least, and right now is when the decisions have to be made.

In a perfect world NYC with championships = best an endorser of an American athlete can expect. Though internationally you have to consider the Ming effect in China to be powerful as well.

 

[chickenhead]

I suppose my bet is Miami until we see what Wade/Bosh do, and especially until after tomorrow's draft.

I'm not totally sure that being the savior in New York would be more valuable to the Lebron narrative than returning to Cleveland. Keep in mind that he could have gone to NY the last time...

The Suns' chances seem slim, and I don't really mind (let's just say I envy the Heat's first championship more than their second). But it wouldn't shock me if he considered Phoenix. To outsiders it's a benign franchise with a good tradition, good weather, and proximity to Vegas and California. Maybe he likes the rumblings about eliminating the state income tax, too. But it's in the western conference--no getting around that.

More than anything I hope the Suns don't pass on other high-percentage moves because they are nursing a low-percentage dream for Lebron. I trust the current regime, though.

 

[FArting]

Come play for Phoenix Lebron

You have your friend Eric Bledsoe
We have the best training staff in the league
Help us defeat our rivals

 

[desertdawg]

Look how big Lebron made Miami, they were not even close to the level of the Phoenix Suns before him even with their fluke championship.
Suns would be big time again with Lebron, like in the Nash and Barkley days.

Miami had already won with Wade and Shaq, make some sense man.

 

[slinslin]

Can you read?

 

[SirStefan32]

Dude, you can't just say that it was a "fluke" championship. Fact is that Miami had won it all once and Phoenix did not. Saying that Phoenix is a superior organization because of Barkley and Nash eras is silly. You can't just label something as a "fluke" to fit your argument.

My God, we have been posting on this board (and the previous one) for damn near 15 years, and I STILL wonder if you really mean the crap you spew or if you are just that good at trolling.

 

[slinslin]

Aren't you the biggest troll of them all? Everytime you post on the Suns board it's to instigate.

Miami was not a big time NBA organization before Lebron no matter their fluke championship.
They were not regarded as a top organization, they are not in a big market, they didn't get any special media attention. They were similiar to Orlando if even that.