Lebron Opts Out/Becomes Free Agent

[SirStefan32]

Miami has only been around since 1987.

Mourning/ Hardaway teams were great between '95 and '99, I think. They made conference finals a couple of times. Before the "Fluke" title, they made conference finals again, if I remember correctly.

Without looking it up, I think I am going to say they made conference finals at least two time prior to Lebron, and won a championship. There was NO "Fluke" about it. They demolished Dallas- they destroyed them. That was after destroying some good teams in the East, including Detroit and Nets, if I remember correctly.

To say that the Suns are a superior organization to Miami is beyond insane.

 

[slinslin]

Dallas was not even the best team in the West that year, they had lots of things going their way to get to the finals.

That finals was the weakest finals pairing in the last 25 years at least, maybe longer and that Heat team the worst champion I can remember.

 

[SirStefan32]

Dallas was not even the best team in the West that year, they had lots of things going their way to get to the finals.

Houston was not the best team the first time they won a championship. If it weren't for Barkley's ********, the Suns would have walked over them. Was that a "Fluke"? Of course not. **** happens.

Dallas swept Memphis, won a very tough battle against the Spurs, and demolished Phoenix to make the finals.

Stop making up crap and stick to the facts.

 

[elindholm]

Miami was not a big time NBA organization before Lebron no matter their fluke championship.
They were not regarded as a top organization, they are not in a big market, they didn't get any special media attention. They were similiar to Orlando if even that.

Slinslin, maybe you'd have to live in the U.S. to know this, but Miami as a city has much more of an aura to it than Phoenix does. I don't know how the populations compare, but Miami's reputation as an important, "happening" place in the country is far, far beyond Phoenix's. It has the "big market" advantages whether it is technically a big market or not.

 

[slinslin]

Houston was not the best team the first time they won a championship. If it weren't for Barkley's ********, the Suns would have walked over them. Was that a "Fluke"? Of course not. **** happens.

Dallas swept Memphis, won a very tough battle against the Spurs, and demolished Phoenix to make the finals.

Stop making up crap and stick to the facts.

Demolished Phoenix? Are you really that level of idiot?

They won in 6 games after the series was tied 2-2. Raja Bell missed 2 games in that series and Amare missed the entire year.

The were extremely lucky to beat San Antonio in OT of Game 7.

They were not the best team in the league and embarassed themselves against a mediocre Miami team.

 

[Shaggy]

Alright take it easy. You guys can debate but stop the name calling. It's not hard to have a convo without name calling slinslin.

 

[SirStefan32]

Demolished Phoenix? Are you really that level of idiot?

They won in 6 games after the series was tied 2-2. Raja Bell missed 2 games in that series and Amare missed the entire year.

The were extremely lucky to beat San Antonio in OT of Game 7.

They were not the best team in the league and embarassed themselves against a mediocre Miami team.

There is always some luck involved. Amare may have missed the season, but the Suns still managed to make the conference finals. That was a damn good team (If I remember correctly, this was the Boris Diaw/ Tim Thomas year) and Dallas beat them in six games.

Spurs were a great team as well, and maybe Dallas was lucky to win that one game in OT, but at the end of the day, they beat that great Spurs team FOUR times.

I dislike Miami as much as the next guy and I love my Suns a lot, but we can't just make up facts to claim we are a better franchise. Hell, this is so bad that you are making up facts to prove that Miami WAS worse than Phoenix years ago. Fact of the matter is that in their 22 years prior to Lebron, they won a championship and went to conference finals twice. Were they up there with Lakers and Celtics? Of course not, but to say they were worse than Phoenix is beyond homerism. (And believe me, I am a homer, and I appreciate good homerism."

 

[Cheesebeef]

The current Suns organization v. Miami organization comparison begins and ends with two names. Robert Sarver and Pat Riley. Period.

 

[Covert Rain]

Look how big Lebron made Miami, they were not even close to the level of the Phoenix Suns before him even with their fluke championship.
Suns would be big time again with Lebron, like in the Nash and Barkley days.

Fluke? Just when I thought you distanced yourself from the unrelenting Lopez love type ridiculousness. That Title was anything but a fluke. A team with Wade on it...is not a fluke. Add Shaq and that was icing on the cake when healthy. That wasn't the Phoenix Suns Shaq either.

For $!@$ sake. The NBA season is 82 games long not including the playoff off grind. NOBODY hands anybody a title in the NBA. You still have to show up and execute to get into the playoffs let alone get through them to get a title. That is no fluke.

Guess what? Shaq/Wade = 1 Title.......Lebron/Wade = 1 Title........ <insert Suns player #1 here>/<insert Suns player #2 here> = ZERO TITLES.

At the end of the day....the coulda woulda shoulda doesn't mean a thing. You can't call yourself a better franchise if you have not gotten it done. PERIOD. Nuff said.

 

[bankybruce]

The current Suns organization v. Miami organization comparison begins and ends with two names. Robert Sarver and Pat Riley. Period.

Not sure about that. Micky Arison is showing to be pretty cheap. The whole Mike Miller excuse is weak and LeBron sees through it. They could have used the amnesty clause this offseason to create cap space if that were really the case. Micky did not want to pay the tax while being the most popular team in the NBA while Sarver has paid it three times.

 

[SirStefan32]

Yeah, I really don't understand the irrational hatred Sarver continues to receive. Don't get me wrong, he's done plenty of incompetent things back in the day, but he was never cheap, and he seems to have learned from his mistakes. I don't think Sarver is bad at all at this point.

 

[Covert Rain]

Not sure about that. Micky Arison is showing to be pretty cheap. The whole Mike Miller excuse is weak and LeBron sees through it. They could have used the amnesty clause this offseason to create cap space if that were really the case. Micky did not want to pay the tax while being the most popular team in the NBA while Sarver has paid it three times.

That's not the entire story about Sarver. What about the unnecessary trading of draft picks? What about Joe Johnson? What about the ton of bad trades under his watch? What about his failed experiment to take a Non-basketball approach to his front office? Most of all.....what about his reputation around the league? Other owners don't like him. Golden State spit in his face. The players after the last collective bargaining agreement called out Sarver out of all the owners participating.

All of that including the more recent stuff makes up who Sarver is. Anybody that says this Franchise is just as respected as when JC was here is delusional. Cheesebeef is right....we have nobody of Pat Riley's caliber in terms of league respect.

Has Sarver tried to right the ship? OK, I will give him that but the damage may already be done. He doesn't get a pass for the bad stuff because he is trying to turn things around. JC has brought in big names in his tenure to the team.

Let's see Sarver attract some big names before we declare the team image and reputation repaired. That doesn't include taking a chance on aging veterans that nobody else will. IMO, I don't think Sarver can repair our reputation as long as he is here. Building through the draft and making trades is the only way we get franchise caliber players in here. I would love him to prove me wrong.

Again....it's a pipe dream but if Sarver was to get LeBron? I would give him all the latitude in the world.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Yeah, I really don't understand the irrational hatred Sarver continues to receive. Don't get me wrong, he's done plenty of incompetent things back in the day, but he was never cheap, and he seems to have learned from his mistakes. I don't think Sarver is bad at all at this point.

I'm with you.

Steve

 

[Cheesebeef]

Not sure about that. Micky Arison is showing to be pretty cheap. The whole Mike Miller excuse is weak and LeBron sees through it. They could have used the amnesty clause this offseason to create cap space if that were really the case. Micky did not want to pay the tax while being the most popular team in the NBA while Sarver has paid it three times.

doesn't matter. Riley is one of the Godfather's of the NBA and Sarver's reputation for whatever reason just isn't all that great in NBA circles. no one can really debate that seriously, can they?

and Mickey didn't want to pay the three time offender max tax. but again, Riley and Miami the city pretty much trumps our organization at this point.

 

[bankybruce]

doesn't matter. Riley is one of the Godfather's of the NBA and Sarver's reputation for whatever reason just isn't all that great in NBA circles. no one can really debate that seriously, can they?

and Mickey didn't want to pay the three time offender max tax. but again, Riley and Miami the city pretty much trumps our organization at this point.

But you are comparing apples to oranges. Sarver is the owner and Riley is the President/GM and I was comparing apples.

 

[Cheesebeef]

But you are comparing apples to oranges. Sarver is the owner and Riley is the President/GM and I was comparing apples.

no, I'm not. I'm comparing the draw of the Suns versus the draw of Miami. Miami is an organization that has won 3 titles over the last 9 years, been to 5 finals and 6 ECFs and is run by the Godfather of the NBA. We can't compare to any of that.

 

[bankybruce]

no, I'm not. I'm comparing the draw of the Suns versus the draw of Miami. Miami is an organization that has won 3 titles over the last 9 years, been to 5 finals and 6 ECFs and is run by the Godfather of the NBA. We can't compare to any of that.

Gottcha, I misunderstood what point you were making.

 

[hsandhu]

Gottcha, I misunderstood what point you were making.

Did you miss the reporting during the lockout? Sarver made a complete ass out of himself infront of the players, he cemented his rep forever.

 

[Covert Rain]

Did you miss the reporting during the lockout? Sarver made a complete ass out of himself infront of the players, he cemented his rep forever.

Which is one of my main sore points with Sarver. Owners and players alike don't respect him. Look at the long list of blockbuster deals under JC and free agent signings. What has Sarver done? He has not brought in one franchise changing player since he took over. Bledsoe is probably the closest but there are a ton of players on JC resume that trump him. He has owned the franchise for 10 years now!

10 years...squandered opportunity and we are no closer to a title. In fact, we are further away.

 

[chickenhead]

Since Miami entered the league in 1988-89:

Winning seasons
Phoenix: 19 (plus two .500 seasons)
Miami: 17

Playoff appearances
Phoenix: 19
Miami: 18

Conference semis appearances
Phoenix: 11
Miami: 9

Conference finals appearances:
Miami: 7
Phoenix: 6

NBA finals appearances:
Miami: 5
Phoenix: 1

Championships
Miami: 3
Phoenix: 0

You give Miami the edge because of the NBA finals appearances and championships, obviously, but I think it's a fair comparison. 4/5 of Miami's NBA finals appearances and 2/3 of the championships have come with the Big Three. And everything has happened from the Eastern Conference, which has been the weaker conference during this time frame. Part of that time was during the Bulls dynasty, but both times the Heat played Chicago they were the #8 seed and got swept, so it's not like they were second fiddle.

If Phoenix doesn't blow it vs. Houston in the 90s it's a whole other story. But they did, so for now we give Miami the nod.

 

[Covert Rain]

Since Miami entered the league in 1988-89:

Winning seasons
Phoenix: 19 (plus two .500 seasons)
Miami: 17

Playoff appearances
Phoenix: 19
Miami: 18

Conference semis appearances
Phoenix: 11
Miami: 9

Conference finals appearances:
Miami: 7
Phoenix: 6

NBA finals appearances:
Miami: 5
Phoenix: 1

Championships
Miami: 3
Phoenix: 0

You give Miami the edge because of the NBA finals appearances and championships, obviously, but I think it's a fair comparison. 4/5 of Miami's NBA finals appearances and 2/3 of the championships have come with the Big Three. And everything has happened from the Eastern Conference, which has been the weaker conference during this time frame. Part of that time was during the Bulls dynasty, but both times the Heat played Chicago they were the #8 seed and got swept, so it's not like they were second fiddle.

If Phoenix doesn't blow it vs. Houston in the 90s it's a whole other story. But they did, so for now we give Miami the nod.

You have an argument until you hit Conference Finals appearances and titles which is the entire point of existing in the league. At that point, it's no longer an "edge" or a "nod". It's a slam dunk <---Pun Intended.

 

[CardsFan88]

Obviously you can put this under the who knows what category, but interesting none the less

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1330180&sid=9c22d6e35863c26568b134b5cc770c3d

The instagram post in question

http://instagram.com/p/pt3_84lCMn/

two hints in it, for those that don't see it (and infer what it means)

Day 1 of the new challenge.. @kingjames @rayn34 @mistadubb Let's goo!!! #focused

New challenge? Sending it to Lebron?

....and #2

Look at the picture

One plate with two items (funny enough Wade might also be poking fun with his plate having Steak)

Then another plate off to the side with a single item.

Still too early, but considering word got out yesterday that they did have a meeting, and we haven't heard squat about it, this might be that first reveal of what transpired.

Also, as of yet Wade and Bosh haven't opted out yet.

It could be something, it could be nothing, I obviously lean towards it meaning something.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Did you miss the reporting during the lockout? Sarver made a complete ass out of himself infront of the players, he cemented his rep forever.

Maybe I'm mistaken but I think you've heard just part of the story. I think this is like one of those cases where a teacher is suspended and dragged through the media mud for molesting a 13 year old student. The story makes local and national headlines and leads the news for several days. A few months later, a recording is discovered where the girl brags about making up the story so she wouldn't get a D for failing to do a book report. It's a two line blurb on page 6 and no one reads the story.

The negotiations were behind closed doors. Simmons claimed to have a source that Sarver was the leader of the "let the players starve" group. Also, someone else reported that Robert had been disruptive and that Stern had dressed him down. Later on, more of the story came out. After the negotiations, it was reported that Sarver was one of the most vocal owners in support of ending the lockout and that's a big part of why he clashed with the tyrant leader of the NBA. The average fan may not know the truth but I'll bet the agents and the players do. Sarver's folly was standing up to Stern, hardly a crime.

Steve

 

[BC867]

You give Miami the edge because of the NBA finals appearances and championships, obviously, but I think it's a fair comparison...

If Phoenix doesn't blow it vs. Houston in the 90s it's a whole other story. But they did, so for now we give Miami the nod.

Professional sports. Except for the Globetrotters, competition (vs. entertainment) is the name of the game.

The Heat has fulfilled better than the Suns since Miami joined the NBA. Not just, for now.

And any time I see a phrase like "If Phoenix doesn't blow it" as a defense, I can't help but think that THOSE WHO ACHIEVE DON'T NEED TO RESORT TO ALIBIS. ONLY THOSE WHO COME UP SHORT -- REPEATEDLY -- AND WITHOUT EXCEPTION.

 

[desertdawg]

Aren't you the biggest troll of them all? Everytime you post on the Suns board it's to instigate.

Miami was not a big time NBA organization before Lebron no matter their fluke championship.
They were not regarded as a top organization, they are not in a big market, they didn't get any special media attention. They were similiar to Orlando if even that.

I can read, and I don't have to be instigating to laugh at how you make it sound. I aint no troll, I don't go to the depths that you do, we've done all this before so stick to your Miami is a scrub team thing and I will laugh.