Leinart Contract/Negotiations Discussion

[arthurracoon]

no movement in Leinart deal
not too far apart
are speaking again

per MJ today

 

[AzWins23]

I think there are more pages on this thread then when we signed Edgerrin James!

 

[CatBoxBackFan]

I think there are more pages on this thread then when we signed Edgerrin James!

It took only 3 days to get 23 pages for the James signing but we are on Day 6 for this.

 

[BigRedRage]

be nice if everyone would stop arguing tho so i wouldnt have to sift through 15 pages to find 6 posts of news!

 

[CorporalCardinal]

THat is probably the smartest thing I've heard all day.....course it's been a slow day but that's beside the point.

 

[Duckjake]

not only is it based in LA, it's the biggets and most successful of the 4 Hollywood agencies. I always thought it was weird that Leinhart (well, maybe not, seeing as his reputation in LA was as a wannabe rockstar) went with CAA - I had never heard of any NFL player do that before. At least not for representation for the NFL, anyways - Condon's got a bunch of clients though, right? Anyone know when he went ot CAA?

BEVERLY HILLS, Calif. (April 5, 2006) -- Tom Condon, agent for the Manning brothers and other NFL stars, has left International Management Group to join Creative Artists Agency.

Condon, a former offensive lineman for Kansas City, has been one of the league's top agents for more than a decade. A former president of the league's players union, he has represented Gene Upshaw, the union's executive director, as well as the NFL Officials Association.

In addition to Peyton Manning of the Colts and Eli Manning of the Giants, he represents such NFL quarterbacks as Drew Brees of New Orleans, Chad Pennington of the New York Jets, Alex Smith of San Francisco, Marc Bulger of St. Louis, Chris Simms of Tampa Bay and Byron Leftwich of Jacksonville.

Other prominent clients include Indianapolis wide receiver Marvin Harrison; San Diego running back LaDainian Tomlinson; Kansas City tight end Tony Gonzalez; and Minnesota guard Steve Hutchinson.

 

[lobo]

sit tight

we can speculate all day...the only way we will know what is what is through a leak...which won't happen or being a fly on the wall...we all know it is either money or length of contract either or both...it is not the cards way to share how it is going..and that is a good thing....no reason to negotiate in the press....TOMORROW IS THURSDAY....and we know what that could mean!!!

 

[Pariah]

....TOMORROW IS THURSDAY....and we know what that could mean!!!

Yup. Someone will say we always sign guys on Thursdays, and then someone else will say "no we don't, didn't you read my post last time we talked about this?"

 

[Azlen]

we can speculate all day...the only way we will know what is what is through a leak...which won't happen or being a fly on the wall...we all know it is either money or length of contract either or both...it is not the cards way to share how it is going..and that is a good thing....no reason to negotiate in the press....TOMORROW IS THURSDAY....and we know what that could mean!!!

We really don't even know what is going on through leaks, because whichever side leaks is going to make the other side seem unreasonable. Right now its either that Leinart wants Vince Young money or that the Cards are offering less than what Mike Williams got last year. I doubt either are true.

 

[Mitch]

Condon wants more guaranteed money than what the slotting permits...that's the sticking point. Everything else is pretty much in place. The Cardinals have not short shrifted any draft pick for several years now. But, to make special concessions to Leinart would be breaking a vital draft pick signing precedent and would lead to more and more holdouts...thus, the Cardinals not only have a responsibility to their own signing policies, but to the league's as well.

Leinart is making a big mistake. His attitude should be to sign a contract that is commensurate with his slotting (in terms of guaranteed money...in the $12-13M range) that includes incentive clauses for him to be handsomely compensated for becoming the team's starter, for playing at a high level and for leading the team to the playoffs. All of those incentives are ones that the Cardinals would be eager to provide...they would also make the value of the contract substantial.

 

[JC_AZ]

I have to agree with Mitch...no matter the hype, you were picked at #10...prove yourself by doing it on the field and your next contract will be HUGE!

 

[kerouac9]

Condon wants more guaranteed money than what the slotting permits...that's the sticking point. Everything else is pretty much in place. The Cardinals have not short shrifted any draft pick for several years now. But, to make special concessions to Leinart would be breaking a vital draft pick signing precedent and would lead to more and more holdouts...thus, the Cardinals not only have a responsibility to their own signing policies, but to the league's as well.

Leinart is making a big mistake. His attitude should be to sign a contract that is commensurate with his slotting (in terms of guaranteed money...in the $12-13M range) that includes incentive clauses for him to be handsomely compensated for becoming the team's starter, for playing at a high level and for leading the team to the playoffs. All of those incentives are ones that the Cardinals would be eager to provide...they would also make the value of the contract substantial.

What can you possibly be basing this conclusion on?

 

[Crazy Canuck]

I have to agree with Mitch...no matter the hype, you were picked at #10...prove yourself by doing it on the field and your next contract will be HUGE!

So a franchise QB should accept less than a linebacker picked at #9.?

Well, I don't think for a moment that the Cards are suggesting this, and it certainly wouldn't get Leinart to the dotted line.

If a precedent is set through this contract, so be it. The Cards responsibility is to the quality of their team and the soundness of their own budget. The league can deal with the ramifications, if any - of a signing above the slot. It's dealt with bigger issues in the past.

In a battle between billionaires and millionaires I stand firmly with the little guy...

 

[JC_AZ]

No matter.. he was picked at #10, and with the incentives he was supposedly offered related to playing time and guarantees was better than Cutler or Sims...PROVE IT ON THE FIELD and your payday is guaranteed... along with the $14 mil guaranteed just to sign the dotted line, even if you suck...not that I think he will, just have to bring some sanity back into the negotiations

 

[Russ Smith]

So a franchise QB should accept less than a linebacker picked at #9.?

Well, I don't think for a moment that the Cards are suggesting this, and it certainly wouldn't get Leinart to the dotted line.

If a precedent is set through this contract, so be it. The Cards responsibility is to quality of their team and the soundness of their own budget. The league can deal with the ramifications, if any - of a signing above the slot. It's dealt with bigger issues in the past.

In a battle between billionaires and millionaires I stand firmly with the little guy...

Well in 04 Roethlisberger went 11th. He got a million more than the 10th pick because Leigh Steinberg was convinced that he deserved a QB premium and the Steelers caved. It didn't destroy the NFL, but it wasn't a huge premium. Dunta Robinson got an 8 million signing bonus at 10, Ben got 9 million at 11. Both deals were 6 years, I believe the total value of Robinson's contract was higher but I couldn't find that information doing a quick google, could be Ben's overall deal was higher too.

I don't think the Cards would be opposed to something like that, but it all depends on how much of a premium Condon is seeking for Matt and we don't really know the answer to that. Right now all we know is it's alleged the Cards say he's asking for way MORE than the slot value, and the agent says the Cards are offering LESS than the slot, that's unfortunately how NFL contracts get negotiated in the media both sides spread leaks trying to get the fans on their side.

We never know, I remember for ages the Cards said Wadsworth was demanding more than they could legally pay under the rookie cap, and then they signed him to the exact offer they'd been saying wasn't legal. You just never know who's telling the truth.

I'm not worried yet about Matt he's a smart kid who understands that if he misses too much camp it's going to impact his ability to play this year if Warner gets hurt, he's got incentive to sign and get in there.

 

[sundevilscott]

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Leinart is making a big mistake. His attitude should be to sign a contract that is commensurate with his slotting (in terms of guaranteed money...in the $12-13M range) that includes incentive clauses for him to be handsomely compensated for becoming the team's starter, for playing at a high level and for leading the team to the playoffs. All of those incentives are ones that the Cardinals would be eager to provide...they would also make the value of the contract substantial.

Except he has absolutely no guarantee of when he's going to be a starter or be getting the opportunity to play in games that will kick in those incentive clauses. Leinart would me a moron to sign for less guaranteed money and more incentives when his coach has come out and said he'd rather you not play this year. Not to mention the QB he's behind on the depth chart has all sorts of weapons to csucceed which could push back his first start another year.

And I knew it was only a matter of time before the 'Leinart is greedy' rhetoric started up. Pretty strange coincidence that the Cardinals find a way to draft greedy players who hold out every year.

 

[Codeofhammurabi]

And I knew it was only a matter of time before the 'Leinart is greedy' rhetoric started up. Pretty strange coincidence that the Cardinals find a way to draft greedy players who hold out every year.

The organization has not had lengthy holdouts in the last several years. I really don't think that you pointing the finger at the organization has any more basis than the others pointing the finger at Leinart's side.

From what I have read, there was every indication that a short holdout was going to occur. If he holds out less than 5 full days, as predicted, this may be the most overblown line of threads of all time.

 

[jmr667]

Except he has absolutely no guarantee of when he's going to be a starter or be getting the opportunity to play in games that will kick in those incentive clauses. Leinart would me a moron to sign for less guaranteed money and more incentives when his coach has come out and said he'd rather you not play this year. .

So basically the guy should get paid not too play? He's not guarenteed to have to get out on the field and risk career ending injury so he should get paid MORE money?

 

[CorporalCardinal]

I'd love it if I got paid several million dollars to sit and learn.....we need to revamp the school system HA

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

There may be a small premim for being a QB but the Cards won't, and shouldn't, give in and give a huge bonus because Leinart thinks he should have gone higher and is a QB. For arguments sake, let's say the Cards cave and give Leinart 18 million in bonusses. Now say they struggle and pick 10 next year.I guarantee the agent,which could easily be Condon, uses this year's contract a starting point for next year. The Cards and the NFL won't let that happen. Like Russ said about Ben, he may get a million dollars more than Sims did at 9 but that's about it.If Leinart expects more then he's in for a lengthy holdout.

 

[Lloydian]

...and then someone else will say "no we don't, didn't you read my post last time we talked about this?"

Hey! I'm someone now!

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

The organization has not had lengthy holdouts in the last several years. I really don't think that you pointing the finger at the organization has any more basis than the others pointing the finger at Leinart's side.

As has been pointed out ad nauseum on this thread and others, the Cardinals have not had a draft pick in camp on time in quite a while. Antrel missed eight days of camp last year, Dansby/Dockkett/Pace/BJ missed a few days each as well. Fat Wendell missed seemingly forever four years ago. When the same organization can't ever seem to get guys in on time I find it hard to believe that they just happen to draft players with unrealistic expectations.

So basically the guy should get paid not too play? He's not guarenteed to have to get out on the field and risk career ending injury so he should get paid MORE money?

Yeah. If Leinart won't be able to make anything off incentives due to sitting the pine, his agent is going to make damn sure he gets what he deserves as a Top 10 QB in guaranteed money.

 

[Faithful]

Hey! I'm someone now!

 

[arthurracoon]

Does that sound like something Denny would've said? I thought he was more about "pie" when talking contracts.

maybe he mentioned a really nice type of pie?