Leinart Contract/Negotiations Discussion

BACH

Superbowl, Homeboy!
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
6,066
Reaction score
1,750
Location
Expat in Kuala Lumpur
40yearfan said:
Joe, if you spend that money now, what do you use to resign Davis, Dockett, etc?
Davis' cap number is something like $8M for this season and he's probably first in line for an extension. That will create another $2-3M in additional cap space. There's plenty of room to sign a Free Agent and extent 2 or 3 players during the season.
 

40yearfan

DEFENSE!!!!
Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2003
Posts
35,013
Reaction score
456
Location
Phoenix, AZ.
kerouac9 said:
Who did we cut after last season who "wasn't working out"?

I don't believe that we could have fixed all of the woes on this team this year, but I think that we could have fixed more of them than we did. We could have had a veteran OT, MLB, and CB for less than $3 million under this years cap to improve depth, but we didn't, and that's going to affect our team on the field this year, and the cap next year if we have another high draft pick.

Could we have fixed those problems and still had money to extend the 3 or 4 guys this year?
 

40yearfan

DEFENSE!!!!
Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2003
Posts
35,013
Reaction score
456
Location
Phoenix, AZ.
Pariah said:
If we're replacing players, doesn't it make sense that we'd also be replacing their salaries?

What about the guaranteed money? We have to put all of that in the same year.

Why do some people always want to look to next year when it comes to paying players? No one is suggesting we overpay for players--we're suggesting that when a team has GLARING NEEDS that they can afford to address they should ADDRESS THEM.

Don't you think that all NFL teams have glaring needs every year?

Would signing a 2nd tier CB and RT destroy our ability to field a team for years to come? If the answer is yes, then I'm with you, the Cardinals did the right thing. But, I don't see how anyone can say with a straight face that's the case.

That said, I'm excited about the group of starters they've assembled for this year, not so much the backups.

Hopefully there's a way to have your cake and eat it too, but I sure don't see how it can happen without putting yourself into cap hell again.
 

joeshmo

Kangol Hat Aficionado
Joined
Feb 23, 2004
Posts
17,247
Reaction score
1
40yearfan said:
So am I incorrect in thinking that the Cards have spent nearly to the cap level every year?

This year you are correct.
 

joeshmo

Kangol Hat Aficionado
Joined
Feb 23, 2004
Posts
17,247
Reaction score
1
40yearfan said:
I sure don't see how it can happen without putting yourself into cap hell again.

When did signing depth players to fair contracts lead to putting yourself into cap hell.
 

40yearfan

DEFENSE!!!!
Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2003
Posts
35,013
Reaction score
456
Location
Phoenix, AZ.
joeshmo said:
When did signing depth players to fair contracts lead to putting yourself into cap hell.

When you spend all your cap money and leave yourself no contingencies.
 

joeshmo

Kangol Hat Aficionado
Joined
Feb 23, 2004
Posts
17,247
Reaction score
1
40yearfan said:
This year isn't over yet. What about the last 2 years?

The year isnt over yet?

Who are they going to get right now that will help this team right now, today, this year. Some unnamed player that some other team is going to cut.

And yes they did have to much cap left over the last 2 years.
 

BACH

Superbowl, Homeboy!
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
6,066
Reaction score
1,750
Location
Expat in Kuala Lumpur
40yearfan said:
So am I incorrect in thinking that the Cards have spent nearly to the cap level every year?
No, you're not.

But, Joe's point is that isn't going to be an advantage (or very little) in this cap strategy of thinking ahead for the next couple of years, because the cap is going to increase so much, that no team is going to have cap problems - limiting the number of quality FAs significantly.
 

joeshmo

Kangol Hat Aficionado
Joined
Feb 23, 2004
Posts
17,247
Reaction score
1
40yearfan said:
When you spend all your cap money and leave yourself no contingencies.

What contingencies?

Injuries? You only need 1 Mill for that as there is no one else to sign but vet min players.

We are talking about 10 Million left this season not 2 million(either way being just as easy to extend players). We are talking about having 40+ mill next season with few of our own FA to re-sign, not 10 Million with 20 guys to re-sign.
 
OP
OP
ajcardfan

ajcardfan

I see you.
Supporting Member
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
38,563
Reaction score
25,562
BACH said:
No, you're not.

But, Joe's point is that isn't going to be an advantage (or very little) in this cap strategy of thinking ahead for the next couple of years, because the cap is going to increase so much, that no team is going to have cap problems - limiting the number of quality FAs significantly.

And you can see this already with the unusually high number of extensions that have been signed during the past month.
 

joeshmo

Kangol Hat Aficionado
Joined
Feb 23, 2004
Posts
17,247
Reaction score
1
BACH said:
No, you're not.

But, Joe's point is that isn't going to be an advantage (or very little) in this cap strategy of thinking ahead for the next couple of years, because the cap is going to increase so much, that no team is going to have cap problems - limiting the number of quality FAs significantly.

Some teams will have cap problems(not nearly as much as in years past) just not us with our 40+ Million for next season(which includes possible incentives for Rolle, fitz, and a generous amount for a Matt).

It is as simple as this. We have 10 Mill left this season, we are going to have 40+ mill next season. Nothing left to say really.
 

40yearfan

DEFENSE!!!!
Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2003
Posts
35,013
Reaction score
456
Location
Phoenix, AZ.
BACH said:
No, you're not.

But, Joe's point is that isn't going to be an advantage (or very little) in this cap strategy of thinking ahead for the next couple of years, because the cap is going to increase so much, that no team is going to have cap problems - limiting the number of quality FAs significantly.

So we have been spending nearly to the cap as I thought and I believe that trend will continue this year. I see nothing wrong with the way we've managed to keep this thing under control. Running an NFL team doesn't take a fan, it takes a businessman with a sound knowledge of the financial aspects. You have a finite supply of cap room and need to use it to your best advantage and at a time when it is most expeditious to use. If we hadn't have managed the cap so well, we wouldn't have had the money to sign Edge (only a few teams could have done this). You always need to make allowances for the unexpected.
 

joeshmo

Kangol Hat Aficionado
Joined
Feb 23, 2004
Posts
17,247
Reaction score
1
ajcardfan said:
And you can see this already with the unusually high number of extensions that have been signed during the past month.

There have been a few.

But even if you dont see them now you will see it when the season ends and teams have a month and a half of exclusive negotiating with their potential FA before the FA period starts.
 

Pariah

H.S.
Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2003
Posts
35,345
Reaction score
18
Location
The Aventine
40yearfan said:
Hopefully there's a way to have your cake and eat it too, but I sure don't see how it can happen
Then you're not listening, IMO. There have been plenty of scenarios put forth in this thread alone, not to mention over the years.

...without putting yourself into cap hell again.
Again?
 

Pariah

H.S.
Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2003
Posts
35,345
Reaction score
18
Location
The Aventine
40yearfan said:
So we have been spending nearly to the cap as I thought and I believe that trend will continue this year. I see nothing wrong with the way we've managed to keep this thing under control.
You're absolutely right...if your last name happens to be Bidwill.

But, since it isn't (and my middle name is "Cardinals Fan"), then I see plenty wrong with it. Decade after decade of losing teams. Yeah, I see something wrong with it.
 
Last edited:

joeshmo

Kangol Hat Aficionado
Joined
Feb 23, 2004
Posts
17,247
Reaction score
1
40yearfan said:
So we have been spending nearly to the cap as I thought and I believe that trend will continue this year. I see nothing wrong with the way we've managed to keep this thing under control. Running an NFL team doesn't take a fan, it takes a businessman with a sound knowledge of the financial aspects. You have a finite supply of cap room and need to use it to your best advantage and at a time when it is most expeditious to use. If we hadn't have managed the cap so well, we wouldn't have had the money to sign Edge (only a few teams could have done this). You always need to make allowances for the unexpected.

We have not been spending to the cap. Where in Bachs post did you get that.

You dont see nothing wrong with the way we have managed the cap? 10 Mill this year that wont help us win games this year, and 40 Mill next year. Is there something being lost in translation here?

As for Allowances, I fully understand having enough for allowances, but you dont think that 10 Mill is even slightly excessive for an allowance. Any other answer to that but yes just isnt not being truthful.
 

Russ Smith

The Original Whizzinator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
87,666
Reaction score
38,955
From the NY Sun. Later in the article is says August 8th was the deadline to trade unsigned draft picks, so Leinart either signs with us, or sits out the year. They must have changed that I had no idea the deadline was that early.


In early 2005, Leinart was expected to be the first overall draft pick of the San Francisco 49ers, but he surprised almost everyone by announcing he would return for his senior season at USC and put the NFL off for a year. The 49ers selected Utah quarterback Alex Smith with the top pick and gave him a contract with $24 million in guaranteed money. Neither Leinart's agent nor the Cardinals have talked publicly about the specifics of their contract negotiations, but Leinart is probably looking at an offer from the Cardinals worth about half the one he would have gotten last year from the 49ers.

The NFL salary structure ties rookie contracts to the slot where the player was chosen; Leinart was the 10th overall selection in this year's draft. Ninth overall pick Ernie Sims got about $12 million guaranteed on a five-year deal with the Detroit Lions, and 11th overall pick Jay Cutler got about $11 million guaranteed on a six-year contract with the Denver Broncos. Leinart should expect a deal somewhere in that range.

But Leinart's agent, Tom Condon, doesn't hesitate to hold his clients out if he doesn't like the deal the team is offering. In 2001, rookie running back LaDainian Tomlinson skipped almost all of the San Diego Chargers' training camp when Condon demanded more money.Condon and New England Patriots tight end Ben Watson eventually parted ways before Watson's rookie year because Watson thought Condon was being too stubborn in his negotiations with the team.


Interestingly if you read the blog Leinart did with ESPN pre draft he said reports he lost millions by staying in school were wrong, he said he wasn't healthy the year before and he could have easily been Aaron Rodgers and fell to 24 if he had come out that year. He said he figured he'd go top 3 and that he probably made himself money by staying in school. Then after the draft he said that he had a bad feeling from the Titans just before the draft, it was clear Chow had told him I want you, but they're picking Young. He said there were rumors that Denver was moving up to 8 to pick him, but Buffalo wouldn't do the deal. There were rumors the Jets wanted him but backed off. He said he was happy to be a Cardinal but he and his agents were totally surprised he lasted until #10.
 

40yearfan

DEFENSE!!!!
Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2003
Posts
35,013
Reaction score
456
Location
Phoenix, AZ.
Pariah said:
You're absolutely right...if your last name happens to be Bidwill.

But, since my isn't (and my middle name is "Cardinals Fan"), then I see plenty wrong with it. Decade after decade of losing teams. Yeah, I see something wrong with it.

Pariah, you haven't been a Cards fan for very long if you think the Cards are still operating spending money for players like they used to. There is no comparison. Our best guys aren't walking out the door anymore as soon as their contracts with the Cards expire. We are resigning them before their contracts are up.

You guys need to have a little patience. This is a work in progress, not an overnight wonder.
 

Pariah

H.S.
Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2003
Posts
35,345
Reaction score
18
Location
The Aventine
40yearfan said:
Pariah, you haven't been a Cards fan for very long if you think the Cards are still operating spending money for players like they used to. There is no comparison. Our best guys aren't walking out the door anymore as soon as their contracts with the Cards expire. We are resigning them before their contracts are up.

You guys need to have a little patience. This is a work in progress, not an overnight wonder.
WTH does that have to do with sitting on piles of cap room year after year?
 

40yearfan

DEFENSE!!!!
Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2003
Posts
35,013
Reaction score
456
Location
Phoenix, AZ.
joeshmo said:
We have not been spending to the cap. Where in Bachs post did you get that.

You dont see nothing wrong with the way we have managed the cap? 10 Mill this year that wont help us win games this year, and 40 Mill next year. Is there something being lost in translation here?

As for Allowances, I fully understand having enough for allowances, but you dont think that 10 Mill is even slightly excessive for an allowance. Any other answer to that but yes just isnt not being truthful.

Wait a minute. How much cap space did we have left last year and the year before that?
 

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
553,686
Posts
5,410,706
Members
6,319
Latest member
route66
Top