Leinart Contract/Negotiations Discussion

[Jttsaz]

Sign him and get rid of him.

How about we keep Leinart and trade Ownership?

 

[joeshmo]

10m?

I seem to recall, that you earlier posted that we in fact had about 8m left (12m - 4m for the rookies) ???

It is actually 8 to 10 Mill.

I use the high end of the speculation to better help my arguement.

 

[joeshmo]

In business, you can't know what your actual revenue is, you can only project it.

Is it a good idea in business to bet on the future and maybe stake your whole companies life and death on what might happen?

There is not guessing, there is no "what might happen" because we already know.

We already know what the Cap will be next year. That number is already set. There is nothing to project.

And once again we will have 40+ mill in cap next year. Even if they did have to project the cap next year, we could still use this years cap and we would still have 30+ mill. in cap space.

When you have 40+ mill in cap next season you can stand to take a little bit of a risk, as in actually spending more or your 8-10 Mill this year, to help your business this year.

 

[joeshmo]

My opinion differs from yours so obviously mine is wrong

It isnt wrong, its just not what every good team in the NFL believes.

8-10 Mill, ah what the heck lets see if it will help us win next year.

year 3 of a 5 year plan i guess.

 

[joeshmo]

Being a conservative, I'll make sure I have enough to get by even if it means doing a little less now to make sure I have enough for the future. As I said different philosphys.

A little more for the future? So 8-10 Mill in cap space this year and 40+ mill next year isnt enough of a cushion for you. Thats beyond conservative.

We arent even close to being in cap trouble, we are as far away from cap trouble as you could get. Yet we are acting like we are in cap trouble. Doesnt make sense.

 

[joeshmo]

Yeah I guess your right. My opinion differs from yours so obviously mine is wrong

All you have to is give me one legit reason why we still have 8-10 Mill in cap space when there will be 40+ Mill in cap space next season.

1. It isnt to sign anyone else. Becuase if we were going to sign someone else we would do it by now. And it isnt to sign vet min players because you dont need that much money to do so.

2. It isnt to sign someone who will get cut. Cuts are about as usefull as June 1st cuts. If some one is cut we dont need 8-10 mill for them.

3. It isnt to extend players, because the only reason you extend players during the season is to take advantage of cap space for the future year, we already know for a fact we will have 40+ mill in cap space next season so it isnt to help for cap issues next season.

4. It isnt an injury fund, as any player to replace an injured player at this point will only be a vet min contract. So you only need 2 Mill. Max when most teams only keep 1.

So one simple question. Why keep 8-10 Mill in the bank this year when it is known for a fact you will have 40+ Mill next season? Why?

If you can come up with even one good answer to that very much so valid question, I will concede.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

You must be registered for see images

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Joe is right...we have money and unfortunately we still have holes. We've had an excellent offseason, but we are taking a real chance not trying to improve our depth, especially on the OL.

 

[Sandan]

I think part of the issue is finding players

 

[40yearfan]

All you have to is give me one legit reason why we still have 8-10 Mill in cap space when there will be 40+ Mill in cap space next season.

1. It isnt to sign anyone else. Becuase if we were going to sign someone else we would do it by now. And it isnt to sign vet min players because you dont need that much money to do so.

So you can't use part of this money to sign additional vets? I guess you and RG have discussed this so you know it to be true.

2. It isnt to sign someone who will get cut. Cuts are about as usefull as June 1st cuts. If some one is cut we dont need 8-10 mill for them.
What is another Edge type player gets cut? Couldn't we use part of the money for him?

3. It isnt to extend players, because the only reason you extend players during the season is to take advantage of cap space for the future year, we already know for a fact we will have 40+ mill in cap space next season so it isnt to help for cap issues next season.
Did you ever stop to think that with all this additional money available to all teams, salaries are going to go sky high? Wouldn't it be better to sign these guys this year than wait until next year when the prices will go through the roof?

4. It isnt an injury fund, as any player to replace an injured player at this point will only be a vet min contract. So you only need 2 Mill. Max when most teams only keep 1.
So if we keep $2 million, that puts us down to $6 million


So one simple question. Why keep 8-10 Mill in the bank this year when it is known for a fact you will have 40+ Mill next season? Why?
Hang onto your hat and I'll explain.

If you can come up with even one good answer to that very much so valid question, I will concede.

You want to look at each item and say we don't need $10 million for that item, but you don't think about looking at all the items and assigning dollars to each. That's typical of someone who's never run a business. If you have money spend it and the hell with tomorrow. What happens when Leinart's contract comes through at $15 million guaranteed? Push all that money into the following years? Along with upping the contracts of all the players we have to renew? What if someone does get cut or demands a trade who could be a real asset to this team? Just pass on him because you squandered all your bucks on a few vets that might or might not pan out? I sure glad RG and Mike Bidwill are running this team. You'd have it broke in two years.

 

[40yearfan]

A little more for the future? So 8-10 Mill in cap space this year and 40+ mill next year isnt enough of a cushion for you. Thats beyond conservative.

We arent even close to being in cap trouble, we are as far away from cap trouble as you could get. Yet we are acting like we are in cap trouble. Doesnt make sense.

You think we are acting like we are in cap trouble. That's your opinion. I don't agree.

 

[40yearfan]

It isnt wrong, its just not what every good team in the NFL believes.

8-10 Mill, ah what the heck lets see if it will help us win next year.

year 3 of a 5 year plan i guess.

I don't know how you can stand to root for a team with a front office that's so screwed up. I mean it's obvious you know more than they do, because you have a lot more experience-----------Oh wait a minute---

 

[40yearfan]

Another thought. That $40 million bucks you keep talking about----What do you think is gonna happen when that hits? Every person in that organization from RG himself down to the water boy is going to demand more money. All the players agents will go into a feeding fenzy demanding that contracts be redone. The price of doing business will go up in relation to the amount of money brought in. That's economics 101. It's called inflation.

 

[Pariah]

I think part of the issue is finding players

Well it is right now, but it wasn't 3 months ago.

 

[joeshmo]

So you can't use part of this money to sign additional vets? I guess you and RG have discussed this so you know it to be true.

And these vets are? Keep on brining it up doesnt make it any more true that there are actually any out there. And if there were they will cost vet Min and only count 500K against our cap.

What is another Edge type player gets cut? Couldn't we use part of the money for him?

If you think an edge type player is going to get cut then this really is a useless debate. Becuase that is a completely rediculous assumption. Please fill me in on what edge type player has been cut in the last 5 years on the final cut down date. These players cut on that date arent being cut becuase of cap issues they are being cut becuase they suck. You probably think that june 1st cuts are a gold mine dont you.

Did you ever stop to think that with all this additional money available to all teams, salaries are going to go sky high? Wouldn't it be better to sign these guys this year than wait until next year when the prices will go through the roof?

Salaries will go up. They already have. But we are still the highest cap space team in the league. It is all relative is it not. And for like the tenth time, I feel like a broken record, you dont need cap space this year to extended players right now. You can have 5 dollars in the bank and still extend players. Its just taht there cap hit wont ake effect until next season, so instead of 40+ Mill we will have 35+ Mill. Oh the humanity that isnt nearly enough cap space now. And once again i refer to - http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/...&postcount=565

So if we keep $2 million, that puts us down to $6 million

6 More Mill that we could have spent on depth, yes. and most teams only keep 1 Mill for injuries.

I will post it again becuase you keep on brining up the same issues I already proved to be non issues.

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/...&postcount=565

 

[joeshmo]

I think part of the issue is finding players

Nidan. Come on bro.

Did Pariah really have to expalin it?

 

[joeshmo]

You want to look at each item and say we don't need $10 million for that item, but you don't think about looking at all the items and assigning dollars to each. That's typical of someone who's never run a business. If you have money spend it and the hell with tomorrow. What happens when Leinart's contract comes through at $15 million guaranteed? Push all that money into the following years? Along with upping the contracts of all the players we have to renew? What if someone does get cut or demands a trade who could be a real asset to this team? Just pass on him because you squandered all your bucks on a few vets that might or might not pan out? I sure glad RG and Mike Bidwill are running this team. You'd have it broke in two years.

Hell with tomorrow? You are Joking right. 40 Million in cap space. Nuff said. Again i point to Russ post who explain it oh so well already.

First of all Matts contract can be 15 Mill Gauranteed. But not all of that will be signing bonus. Matts cap hit this year can only total out to about 1.8 mill. We can only spend cap wise a ceritan amount on rookies and we only have 1.8 mill left. So any contract he signs wont be any higher then 1.8 mill. Which is already included in the 8-10 mill estimate. A sizeable roster to finish off his gauranteed bonus money has also been included in the 40+ Mill cap space for next season. So your Matt Point isnt valid what so ever.

If someone demands a trade his signing bonus will be paid by the team trading him so we would only have to pay his base salary which any player who is tradeable would be minimal. I cant believe you are honestly hangin your hat on all of these IFS, Like what if and Edge type player gets cut, what if we sign 10 Vets(becuase that is how much it would take to take over our cap space), what if we trade for a player. All of which have 1% odds of happening. All the while you saved your money and passed on other good depth players at fair contract only to to be wandering 3 months later where are all of those players I waiting for.

So all of those other teams all 31 of them who dont keep 10 Mill every year, arent doing right. they must suck. You should give them a call and tell them about your rainy day scenerio. Of which i do believe in the rainy day philosophy, but to not get that 10 Mill is to much of a backup plan is mind boggling.

As for your last comment, first of all, a losing record over more then 50 years speaks volume for the Cards way of doing things. Bob Costas was on the Stadium special this night and he stated, "with the way the NFL is set up today, revenue sharing for the poorer teams, giving them the better draft positions, comp picks, easier schedules outside of the division, and so on. It is a league of parity and to not even have lucked your way into more then 1 winning season since being in Phoenix speaks volumes for the way the team is managed." Graves nor Mikey have winning records to their name, both have big holdouts to their name every year. So yeah they way they have been running things have been oh so great.

And the last sentance. Give me a break. You must not be reading anyones posts becasue no one is advocating the redskins method. Having 10 mill left to spend with 40 Mill left to spend next year when you have clear depth issues. Now that is broken. So is the Redskins way of doing biz. What I have been speaking of this whole time is a happy medium ground and 10/40 Mill is not a happy medium ground.

Yep i would have it broken, more depth to help win this year, extended players, and ONLY having 30 Mill to to spend instead of 40 next offseason. Man what a broken mess.

But you keep on waiting for the next Edge to be cut, or that traded player.

 

[joeshmo]

You think we are acting like we are in cap trouble. That's your opinion. I don't agree.

I could have said ultra conservative. Or act like no other team in the NFL. take your pick.

 

[joeshmo]

Another thought. That $40 million bucks you keep talking about----What do you think is gonna happen when that hits? Every person in that organization from RG himself down to the water boy is going to demand more money. All the players agents will go into a feeding fenzy demanding that contracts be redone. The price of doing business will go up in relation to the amount of money brought in. That's economics 101. It's called inflation.

It is called Inflation. But what you fail to realize is that the cap and revenue sharing goes up in conjuction with that inflation. Average Players contracts go up every year and the revenue sharing and cap go up by the same amount, and in some cases actually goes up faster then average player amounts. It is all relative, and one feeds the other.

Especially with no matter what the inflation is we will still have more to spend then any other team, even if we went down to 30 Mill we would still be at the top of the list.

 

[40yearfan]

Hell with tomorrow? You are Joking right. 40 Million in cap space. Nuff said. Again i point to Russ post who explain it oh so well already.

First of all Matts contract can be 15 Mill Gauranteed. But not all of that will be signing bonus. Matts cap hit this year can only total out to about 1.8 mill. We can only spend cap wise a ceritan amount on rookies and we only have 1.8 mill left. So any contract he signs wont be any higher then 1.8 mill. Which is already included in the 8-10 mill estimate. A sizeable roster to finish off his gauranteed bonus money has also been included in the 40+ Mill cap space for next season. So your Matt Point isnt valid what so ever.

If someone demands a trade his signing bonus will be paid by the team trading him so we would only have to pay his base salary which any player who is tradeable would be minimal. I cant believe you are honestly hangin your hat on all of these IFS, Like what if and Edge type player gets cut, what if we sign 10 Vets(becuase that is how much it would take to take over our cap space), what if we trade for a player. All of which have 1% odds of happening. All the while you saved your money and passed on other good depth players at fair contract only to to be wandering 3 months later where are all of those players I waiting for.

So all of those other teams all 31 of them who dont keep 10 Mill every year, arent doing right. they must suck. You should give them a call and tell them about your rainy day scenerio. Of which i do believe in the rainy day philosophy, but to not get that 10 Mill is to much of a backup plan is mind boggling.

As for your last comment, first of all, a losing record over more then 50 years speaks volume for the Cards way of doing things. Bob Costas was on the Stadium special this night and he stated, "with the way the NFL is set up today, revenue sharing for the poorer teams, giving them the better draft positions, comp picks, easier schedules outside of the division, and so on. It is a league of parity and to not even have lucked your way into more then 1 winning season since being in Phoenix speaks volumes for the way the team is managed." Graves nor Mikey have winning records to their name, both have big holdouts to their name every year. So yeah they way they have been running things have been oh so great.

and the last sentance. Give me a break. Having 10 mill left to spend with 40 Mill left to spend next year when you have clear depth issues. Now that is broken. So is the Redskins way of doing biz. What I have been speaking of this whole time is a happy medium ground and 10/40 Mill is not a happy medium ground.

You keep batting the $40 million around and I keep telling you it isn't the panacea you'd like to make it out to be. Player costs are going to sky rocket and that $40 million will disapear in a hurry. I notice you didn't address that issue.

Same old Cards song. I get sick of hearing it. If you can't realize the difference between this team and the Cards of 4 years ago, you have you head in the sand. These guys are really trying to accomplish something and they are doing it the correct way. Just because some fans are impatient and want to spend the teams money doesn't faze them and it's a good thing.

It's amazing to me how some of you think that this team is the only team with depth issues. Name one team in the NFL that doesn't have a problem with that. There is barely enough talent to go around to get starters, but to expect to field a team with back-ups as good as the starters is ridiculous, but hey, you got money so spend it on something even if it won't help cause you'll make the fans feel better.

 

[kerouac9]

You keep batting the $40 million around and I keep telling you it isn't the panacea you'd like to make it out to be. Player costs are going to sky rocket and that $40 million will disapear in a hurry. I notice you didn't address that issue.

Same old Cards song. I get sick of hearing it. If you can't realize the difference between this team and the Cards of 4 years ago, you have you head in the sand. These guys are really trying to accomplish something and they are doing it the correct way. Just because some fans are impatient and want to spend the teams money doesn't faze them and it's a good thing.

It's amazing to me how some of you think that this team is the only team with depth issues. Name one team in the NFL that doesn't have a problem with that. There is barely enough talent to go around to get starters, but to expect to field a team with back-ups as good as the starters is ridiculous, but hey, you got money so spend it on something even if it won't help cause you'll make the fans feel better.

40 is right. This organization four years ago posted a record of 7-9. This organization last year posted a record of 5-11. Progress is being made.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[40yearfan]

It is called Inflation. But what you fail to realize is that the cap and revenue sharing goes up in conjuction with that inflation. Average Players contracts go up every year and the revenue sharing and cap go up by the same amount, and in some cases actually goes up faster then average player amounts. It is all relative, and one feeds the other.

Especially with no matter what the inflation is we will still have more to spend then any other team, even if we went down to 30 Mill we would still be at the top of the list.

But you don't put the greed factor into it. When the cap money comes out next year, it's going to be a near riot. If you think TO's agent was crazy when he wanted to renogotiate a new contract after only one year, wait until the cap goes up 40% in one year. You're going to have guys with pinky injuries sitting out games trying to get new contracts. It's going to be like winning the lottery. Agents will be coming out of the woodwork and acting like long lost family members.

 

[kerouac9]

But you don't put the greed factor into it. When the cap money comes out next year, it's going to be a near riot. If you think TO's agent was crazy when he wanted to renogotiate a new contract after only one year, wait until the cap goes up 40% in one year. You're going to have guys with pinky injuries sitting out games trying to get new contracts. It's going to be like winning the lottery. Agents will be coming out of the woodwork and acting like long lost family members.

That didn't happen last season when the salary cap went up by $10 million dollars unexpectedly. The great players got paid (like Edge, Shaun Alexander, and Steve Hutchinson), but the mid-tier guys didn't get huge salary escalations.

 

[40yearfan]

40 is right. This organization four years ago posted a record of 7-9. This organization last year posted a record of 5-11. Progress is being made.

You must be registered for see images attach

Well K9, I know that isn't a picture of you. The head wouldn't be in the sand, it would still be in your anatomy.

 

[40yearfan]

That didn't happen last season when the salary cap went up by $10 million dollars unexpectedly. The great players got paid (like Edge, Shaun Alexander, and Steve Hutchinson), but the mid-tier guys didn't get huge salary escalations.

Really? You can say that for a fact? I seem to remember a few players that were grossly overpaid.