Leinart Contract/Negotiations Discussion

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Yes, if you want to go back a few years. It's a new Cardinal regime. Great free agents have been brought in and signed. "Core " players have been given extensions and draft picks have been signed on time and in camp.

This one falls on the player and his agent.

Um, wasn't Antrel Rolle a holdout just last year?

 

[ajcardfan]

Um, wasn't Antrel Rolle a holdout just last year?

Larry was just a couple of days late as well, IIRC. But, by our standards, they didn't really seem like a holdout. Wadsworth, Bryant, Shelton.......now those were holdouts!

 

[BigRedArk]

How many years did Cutler sign for? Anybody?

 

[FArting]

http://www.nfl.com/teams/story/DEN/9574754

if the cardinals dont sign leinart can he practice with the team?

 

[BigRedArk]

http://www.nfl.com/teams/story/DEN/9574754

if the cardinals dont sign leinart can he practice with the team?

No he won't practice because if he gets hurt without a contract that could mean he winds up with no money at all. It isn't worth the risk to him or any player.

Thanks for the link too.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Larry was just a couple of days late as well, IIRC. But, by our standards, they didn't really seem like a holdout. Wadsworth, Bryant, Shelton.......now those were holdouts!

Antrel held out for more than week while Fitzgerald as you said was only a couple days. Of course the front office isn't as bad as it was in the late 90s and first part of this decade when it was downright embarassing, but suggesting that all draft choices are in camp on time and all blame fpor holdouts belongs to the players and agents under this "new regime" is revisonist history and speculation.

Edit - And I completely forgot Dansby and Dockett missed a few days as well as did Pace and Bryant Johnson. Which means that in the Graves era we have had exactly zero 1st round draft picks in camp on time. That's not exactly the picture pf perfection that many of the Graves apologists want to paint for you.

 

[BACH]

Antrel held out for more than week while Fitzgerald as you said was only a couple days. Of course the front office isn't as bad as it was in the late 90s and first part of this decade when it was downright embarassing, but suggesting that all draft choices are in camp on time and all blame fpor holdouts belongs to the players and agents under this "new regime" is revisonist history and speculation.

Edit - And I completely forgot Dansby and Dockett missed a few days as well as did Pace and Bryant Johnson. Which means that in the Graves era we have had exactly zero 1st round draft picks in camp on time. That's not exactly the picture pf perfection that many of the Graves apologists want to paint for you.

I think the difference is that most posters don't consider reporting two days late a hold-out. IMO missing the first 3-4 days is part ofthe regular negotiating process and I think a lots of poster here woulld agree with that. Look around the league. Lots of draftpicks misses a day or two without getting noticed in the media.

 

[Totally_Red]

Pure speculation, most of the holdouts in this organization's past can be mostly blamed on the front office.

If most top 16 picks are signing for SIX years, and Leinart's agents are trying to get a FIVE year deal, the Cardinals can and should not settle for less than a SIX year deal IMO. That is especially true for a QB who may not see the field in his first season.

 

[Mitch]

The Cardinals should try their best to sign Leinart to a six-year deal. But, that's where this process gets sticky because Tom Condon would most likely want to make sure that Leinart isn't going to be paid below market value if he starts lighting it up in Arizona.

The Cardinals have to decide right now whether Leinart indeed is their QB of the future...and while he would appear to be a safe bet...he still hasn't taken one snap in an NFL contest.

This is where both sides have to get creative with regard to Leinart's compensation if he becomes one of the league's elite QBs during his first six years with the club. Incentives piled on incentives will help. Guaranteed money is another major factor...as are player options and roster bonuses.

The Cardinals are not anachronistic, overly conservative negotiators any more. They work well with agents and they have the creative means to get any deal done. I expect the deal to be consummated within 48 hours.

On that note, this system of vastly overpaying mere rookies to enter the league has got to be rethought be the league. There is NO WAY, for example, TE Vernon Davis should come into the league the highest paid TE. That is a travesty and a complete injustice...and makes a mockery out of the way the league conducts its business.

Also...what few people seem to realize is...the draft is SUPPOSED to favor the downtrodden teams...but in a new post, which I will write right now, I will explain why the draft really favors the league's elite teams...which is one of the major reasons why some organizations are perennial powerhouses...because they know how to work the system to their advantage.

 

[HooverDam]

Perennial powerhouses? There are teams that have been very good for the last few years, but whats awesome about the NFL is that garbage teams can make super fast turn arounds. The league is wide open this year and has been for recent memory (even with the Patriots "dynasty" it wasnt like they were miles better than everyone).

 

[Mitch]

Perennial powerhouses? There are teams that have been very good for the last few years, but whats awesome about the NFL is that garbage teams can make super fast turn arounds. The league is wide open this year and has been for recent memory (even with the Patriots "dynasty" it wasnt like they were miles better than everyone).

Please read my post and feel free to criticize it where you seem fit. Two teams that have reaped the benefits of the draft which have been perennial powerhouses (for the most part): New England and Pittsburgh.

 

[Codeofhammurabi]

Antrel held out for more than week while Fitzgerald as you said was only a couple days. Of course the front office isn't as bad as it was in the late 90s and first part of this decade when it was downright embarassing, but suggesting that all draft choices are in camp on time and all blame fpor holdouts belongs to the players and agents under this "new regime" is revisonist history and speculation.

Edit - And I completely forgot Dansby and Dockett missed a few days as well as did Pace and Bryant Johnson. Which means that in the Graves era we have had exactly zero 1st round draft picks in camp on time. That's not exactly the picture pf perfection that many of the Graves apologists want to paint for you.

Unlike most years there are very few holdouts. Fitz and Rolle both had many fellow holdouts around the league. This year almost everyone signed on time, and that is what makes this frustrating. I'm not ready to pin this on the organization though.

 

[sundevilscott]

Dammitthis is such a load of Crap!! With slotted positions this should be an easy thing to get done.

 

[Reddog]

Unlike most years there are very few holdouts. Fitz and Rolle both had many fellow holdouts around the league. This year almost everyone signed on time, and that is what makes this frustrating. I'm not ready to pin this on the organization though.

It's obvious that the Lienart camp is the hold up here. They want higher compensation then the #10 slot warrants because they feel he should have been drafted higher. There is only so far they can push here because at the end of the day it's not the Cards fault he dropped and there is only so much money available. If it comes down to a sixth year I can see the Cards caving on that or paying a huge roster bonus to get the sixth year.

 

[red desert]

It certainly does appear that Leinart and his agents are holding this thing up. He needs to sign for what the number ten slot calls for.

 

[Bobcat]

Unlike most years there are very few holdouts. Fitz and Rolle both had many fellow holdouts around the league. This year almost everyone signed on time, and that is what makes this frustrating. I'm not ready to pin this on the organization though.

I totally agree with what you have said.

BOBCAT

 

[JeffGollin]

Thought I'd chime in:

- First of all, nothing is "obvious. (To quote Jim Mora "We think we know, but we don't know.")

- Second - With (a) Sims (above) and Cutler (below) already signed and (b) a finite amount of money left in the rookie pool, you'd think this would narrow the options available to Leinart/Condon and the Cards.

- Those options figure to include (a) number of years and (b) bells & whistles (i.e. incentives and voidables).

- Since - barring injuries - Matt figures to sit and learn for the first year it's important the deal get done for 6 (not 5) years so we don't once again become the "talent development taxi squad" for the next team who signs him.

- Since he will be playing behind KW (and who knows? Maybe Navarre and even Davey) it is less imperative that Leinart be available to play immediately than might be true for the other 6 draft picks.

- That said - having Matt in camp with maximum reps adds to the overall potential productivity of the roster (since, if he does so, he could conceivably win the #2 backup job and help the team in Year One).

- Now for the one worry that keeps me up at night (and one ratched up by rumors that Mr. B Sr. recently put the kabosh on spending available money on a veteran LB or CB): Peoples' pathologies seldom change over long periods of time (i.e. old dogs/new tricks, leopards/spots etc.). Some individuals - on an unconscious level - are actually terrified of success and, on the brink of victory, will do things that undermine the process.

With all the stars in alignment (i.e. the new stadium ready to go, tix sold out, Edge James and the "new Cardinals" being heralded by the media and 6 of 7 rookies unsigned), the remaining piece of the "good karma" formula is the signing of a QBOF who has star power. This is no time for Mr. B to blink (if, in fact, that's what's going on here). If getting the deal done involves even more contract "creativity" than recently, now is the time to step up. (Heck! Never before has ownership been in a financial situation where it felt could take a minor risk, but it is now).

Bottom Line: Condon shouldn't be unreasonable (It's not as if his client will miss very many meals after his mega-million contract is done). And the B's should be less wary of being creative with the bells & whistles.

 

[joeshmo]

MJ and Bickley this morning.

The issues have nothing to do with amount of years.

The issues seems to be that that Cards are slotting the deal like usual and in that manner it is very much so a more then fair deal most likely. Condon wants a QB premium.

What is odd what usually would be a Cards bash session for this radio duo is actually pretty middle grounded with Bickley actually more in the Cards Camp on the issue.

Here is the hard part for us fans. We are going to be doing a lot of speculating becuase little to no info will ever come out on the issue. Graves/Idzik and the Condon group are not known for using the media during contract issues.

 

[Jttsaz]

Lienart Contract Status

Cardinals | Team confident negotiations with Leinart will resume soon
Mon, 31 Jul 2006 07:50:36 -0700

Darren Urban, of the East Valley Tribune, reports Arizona Cardinals vice president of football operations Rod Graves was "pretty confident" negotiations with QB Matt Leinart's agent, Tom Condon, would resume soon. "We're hung up on a lot of issues. It's time to go home," Condon told ESPN.com after talks stalled Saturday, July 29. One issue is believed to be the length of the contract, with the team wanting a six-year deal and Leinart's camp wanting a five-year contract. Graves said, "We feel that with the ninth and 11th picks in, we should be able to carve out a deal."


Cardinals | D. Green cutting back on training camp time to prevent injuries
Mon, 31 Jul 2006 07:50:22 -0700

Darren Urban, of the East Valley Tribune, reports Arizona Cardinals head coach Dennis Green has cut back on training camp time because he doesn't want anyone to get injured. The team will spend only 14 days for training camp, with only five days having two-a-days. Green has been "alarmed" by the number of season-ending injuries suffered around the league already.

 

[ajcardfan]

Graves/Idzik and the Condon group are not known for using the media during contract issues.

Graves did today. He was quoted as saying he thought the offer to Leinart was "considerably more" than the one given to Cutler. I can't recall him ever saying anything like that in the past. BTW, I don't think it's a good thing he felt compelled to let this leak.

Here's the actual quote:

Leinart's contract would figure to be slotted between those two. Graves said the team has made such an offer.

"We feel like it's a deal that certainly offers more than the deal behind us," he said. "The way I feel about it is now that the ninth and 11th picks are in, we should be able to carve out a deal."

 

[lobo]

Graves did today. He was quoted as saying he thought the offer to Leinart was "considerably more" than the one given to Cutler. I can't recall him ever saying anything like that in the past.

let's sit tight because that is all we can do

a few things tho'

camp is VERY short based on travel/opening up later than most etc

is it "critical" that he be here on day one...seriously doubt it but it would keep the angst down in all of us!!

IT IS critical that we get him for six years....it's a presidential election away but i can just see the "new LA" franchise with a no. 11 somewhere down the road....he get's his old number back!!

let's all stop putting the whammy on KW....we don't need a pool to see if and when he will go down with injury...if he stays well he will continue to be a very fine quarterback

let's keep looking for LB and DB help and discussing that...we just missed a pretty good one in Roman.

last point...i am a "thursday guy" too....the announcement will be made late on wednesday night!!!

 

[blindseyed]

Geessh, every year there's somebody wanting more than offered. What ever happened to EARNING your way? I know I know, it's a husiness.
I'm not worried about Matt signing, he'll get into camp sooner than later, Poston leaving town is a ploy to get what he wants. As soon as Matt sees the team on TV playing and moving along without him, he'll get antsy enought to push his agent to sign. I don't care about the nitty gritty of the contract either, it'll get done when Matt wants to get into camp and be part of this team bad enough

 

[joeshmo]

we just missed a pretty good one in Roman.

Roman. Ugh.

Dude gets beat like a drum, year after year.

He got outplayed on offseason practices in GB by a bunch of no names - Nick Collins (a 2nd rounder in 2005), Marviel Underwood (4th rounder in 2005) and Tyrone Culver (a 6th round rookie). He stunk in Cincy then GB signed him in 2004. After a very sub par 2004 season for them after only 1 year of service they went out and used 2 draft picks the following offseason to try and replace him. The guy is barely 5-10 and we already know Pendy does not like his SS's or FS's to be under 6 foot.

 

[abomb]

Can we keep all the Leinart threads in the Leinart update thread?

 

[Sandan]

Lienart Contract Status

Here it is