Leinart Contract/Negotiations Discussion

[Russ Smith]

My 2 cents, Leinart is not a poor kid looking for a huge payday, he's from a wealthy family and is not desperate to sign. Given he slipped, and that he doesn't "need" the money, this was almost inevitable. My guess is Leinart is going through the "embarassed" to have slipped in the draft phase and his agent is telling him you should have gone higher, we'll get you a QB bonus don't worry about it. Eventually Condon will figure out the Cards are NOT going to just give in and overpay the slot, they may work some bonus bells and whistles that up the ante a bit, but they'll be incentives, Leinart will have to earn his pay it won't be handed to him.

 

[Azlen]

Which is what? There's no evidence to suggest that Condon is looking more closely at Young's contract as a basis for Leinart's than they looked at Cutler's.

This is from CBS Sportsline's story on the subject and it leads me to believe that the Cards are offering a slotted deal, but that Condon is looking for more.

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/9578893

Green noted that quarterback Jay Cutler, selected one rung below Leinart, recently signed with Denver. The player chosen immediately ahead of Leinart, linebacker Ernie Sims, signed with Detroit Sunday.
Those deals should have provided a framework for Leinart and the Cardinals as they worked on a contract, but the sides appeared to be far apart Sunday night. Green said it wasn't the club's fault.
"I would assume that an inability to get the contract done is just some continuation of looking at what possibilities are from their end," Green said.

 

[CardinalChris]

Everything I am hearing isn't about the money, it is the length. They want 5 years, Arizona wants to lock him up for 6.

 

[kerouac9]

This is from CBS Sportsline's story on the subject and it leads me to believe that the Cards are offering a slotted deal, but that Condon is looking for more.

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/9578893

The quote from Green makes me think that the Cards' are trying to give Leinart more money than Cutler, but I would agree with Condon that Leinart should be given a greater overall value contract (or at least equivalent to) than Ernie Sims, because Leinart's playing a more marquee position. I don't really think this has anything to do with Matt thinking "he should have been taken higher", whatever that means. There's nothing to suggest that is the case other than a lot of speculative posts here and elsewhere.

Matt's all business. If the Cards don't want to pay a QB premium, then Graves doesn't know the contract business as well as his defenders seem to think. All of Condon's other clients are in camp on time. That doesn't speak well for Graves' handling of this situation.

 

[RedViper]

My biggest problem with Cardinal hold-outs over the years...

They always seem to get hurt!!!

The "hold-out" player must feel this sense of urgency to prove to their coaches and fellow teammates that they are on board now after finally getting into camp. This "urgency" seems to always come back to bit them in the ass. The Cardinals, you would think, would recognize this pattern and sign these guys so they can play at least half the games their rookie season before getting injured. If your gonna pay 1st rounders big money...wouldn't you rather see them on the field rather than on "injured reserve"?

I don't see this as such a big risk although its definitely true of the two mammoth holdouts we had that come to my mind-Gary Hearst and Andre Wadsworth. Because ideally we won't have to throw Lienart right into the fire it doesn't seem so much of a risk. Hell with Wadsworthless he signed on a Saturday night and played on Sunday. How friggin stupid does that look today? But it wouldn't be the case with Matt, even if Kurt did go down, there's no way they play him right away, I don't think.

But the other thing about our big holdout guys to me, is they somehow end up being the guys that end up being total busts for us. Hearst, Wadsworth, and Wendall Bryant. All three had significant holdouts and all of them were basically worthless for us. I'd hate to see Leinart end up being the next guy on our list to do a major holdout. Don't join that list, Matt. Trust me, you don't want to go there. Just sign, sometime this week and I promise no one will ever again group you with these three idiots.

 

[kerouac9]

And, for the record, Cutler got a huge quarterback bonus. According to ESPN.com, Cutler got a contract that maxes out at $48 million with $11 million in bonuses/guarantees. The previous year's #11 overall pick, DeMarcus Ware, DE out of Troy State, got a contract that was significantly less. According to ESPN.com, Ware's five-year contract is worth only $13 million, with $10 million in guarantees.

EDIT: Last year's #10 overall pick was WR Mike Williams, also out of USC. His contract was reportedly worth $13.5 million over 5 years with $10.5 million guaranteed. I'm guessing that Leinart's looking for something in the ballpark of $55 million over 6 years with $12-$13 guaranteed. If the hangup isn't about contract length, it's definitely over guaranteed money.

 

[AzWins23]

I bet he misses no more than 3 days!

 

[Russ Smith]

And, for the record, Cutler got a huge quarterback bonus. According to ESPN.com, Cutler got a contract that maxes out at $48 million with $11 million in bonuses/guarantees. The previous year's #11 overall pick, DeMarcus Ware, DE out of Troy State, got a contract that was significantly less. According to ESPN.com, Ware's five-year contract is worth only $13 million, with $10 million in guarantees.

On the Bronco board they'res saying Jay's deal is highly overrated, it's a 5 year deal with a team option for a 6th. There is 11 million in guaranteed money, roughly 1 million more than Ware got next year. Most of the contract will never be seen by Cutler it's one of those contracts that look great when announced but the actual value is nowhere near 48 million.

I'd bet that Leinart is still smarting from where he got picked and it's natural, even Bush openly admitted he felt he deserved more money than Mario Williams because he SHOULD have gone first. These guys are being told all year they're going first, or top 3, when they wind up 10th it can't help but be a bit of a blow to their ego. Then their agent tells them don't worry I'll get you a bonus, because he's an agent, that's his job, convince the player I'm fighting for you, I'm on your side. If the Cards cave the agent is a hero, if they don't, the Cards are the bad guy not the agent, it's just a game.

Leinart is not desperate he knows he's not likely to play a ton this year, he knows we ultimately WILL sign him because he's our QBOF, he's not your typical rookie QB he doesn't want to willing take a paycut from USC without at least making it look like he's going to have a holdout.

 

[kerouac9]

I'm not disagreeing with you, Russ, but Bush signed a big contract after holding out for two days for solid, slotted money. I bet that these guys' egos are bruised, but they understand that the draft was three months ago, and it's time to move on.

It's possible that what's really going on is that the battle is over incentives that the Cards want to make impossible, but Condon wants to make accessible. The problem is, with the tools that Leinart is going to have to work with, what incentives wouldn't be reachable? Is a 5500 yard passing season possible with Anquan, Fitz, and Edge on board? Can the Cards make that an incentive for a $3 million bonus and just cross their fingers?

I bet that the guarantees are probably all set, but I don't think Condon can go to Matt and give him the incentives that are ludicrous, but Matt's ceiling is really, really high.

 

[Skkorpion]

I'm so sick of people misreading posts.

I NEVER even intimated that Leinart will go back into the draft. That won't happen. But if Condon is adamant on getting Vince Young money, Leinart may not suit up this season.

 

[Lloydian]

I'm so sick of people misreading posts.

I NEVER even intimated that Leinart will go back into the draft. That won't happen. But if Condon is adamant on getting Vince Young money, Leinart may not suit up this season.

I'm not sure of the difference. If he doesn't "suit up" this season, wouldn't that be because he didn't sign? And if he doesn't sign, doesn't that mean he goes back in the draft?

That said, Leinart will suit up for the 8/12 game. I have no doubt about that.

 

[Pariah]

And if he doesn't sign, doesn't that mean he goes back in the draft?

'zactly.

 

[Russ Smith]

I'm not disagreeing with you, Russ, but Bush signed a big contract after holding out for two days for solid, slotted money. I bet that these guys' egos are bruised, but they understand that the draft was three months ago, and it's time to move on.

It's possible that what's really going on is that the battle is over incentives that the Cards want to make impossible, but Condon wants to make accessible. The problem is, with the tools that Leinart is going to have to work with, what incentives wouldn't be reachable? Is a 5500 yard passing season possible with Anquan, Fitz, and Edge on board? Can the Cards make that an incentive for a $3 million bonus and just cross their fingers?

I bet that the guarantees are probably all set, but I don't think Condon can go to Matt and give him the incentives that are ludicrous, but Matt's ceiling is really, really high.

Sure I can see that. On ESPN basically all they're saying is that Matt knows he's not slated to play a ton this year anyways, so any deal structured such that he has to play a lot to get paid, is not going to favor Matt. That's of course the difference between him and Young or Bush, guys who may in fact play a lot right away(especially Bush) so incentives are more realistic.

I think Matt believes in himself enough that he's confident he can force the team to renegotiate the deal later on after he's proven himself on the field. The final deal will be announced at over 50 million, most of it not "real" money, and then Matt will likely be redone going into year 3 the way Quan was.

His agent is just saving face here he wants it to appear he's playing hardball but the reality is he has just about no leverage, the Cards don't NEED Matt right away, we'd love to have him he'll be a lot better backup than Navarre, but the leverage is all in the Cards court at the moment.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'm so sick of people misreading posts.

I NEVER even intimated that Leinart will go back into the draft. That won't happen. But if Condon is adamant on getting Vince Young money, Leinart may not suit up this season.

the logical conclusion to your last sentence is... "thus, he will re-enter the draft."

Skkorp - I love ya dude, but you've got to switch to decaf!

 

[gusmahler]

My 2 cents, Leinart is not a poor kid looking for a huge payday, he's from a wealthy family and is not desperate to sign.

I always thought his family wasn't "wealthy"? I remember stories about him driving some old beat up pick up truck. And that his family, while not poor, wasn't rich either. Middle class, I guess.

 

[Bobcat]

You were definitely being more prophetic in that thread than people gave you credit for.

Thank you for your comments, I did take a brow beating from some on this forum. They have yet to acknowledged what you have stated quite eloquently.

Thanks again BOBCAT

 

[ajcardfan]

Thank you for your comments, I did take a brow beating from some on this forum. They have yet to acknowledged what you have stated quite eloquently.

Thanks again BOBCAT

Here's what you said:

Not really What really impacts LIENART'S signing is the contract that Vince Young justed signed with TENN. Matt was really the pick that ever coach wanted but the owner took Vince over Matt.

So really that is the Contract the will influence Matt's signing not Jay's!

Bobcat

I don't see what you "prophesied" that has come to pass. No one really knows what Leinart expects.

 

[Renz]

If Leinart expects Vince Young money then he really will be going into next year's draft.

 

[Jttsaz]

the logical conclusion to your last sentence is... "thus, he will re-enter the draft."

Skkorp - I love ya dude, but you've got to switch to decaf!

Cheese! I haven't read a post from you in a while! It's good to hear from you

 

[Bobcat]

Here's what you said:



I don't see what you "prophesied" that has come to pass. No one really knows what Leinart expects.

That is because you have a hard time understanding English language. What is happening is exactly what I stated. Mat and his agents want Vince young type money. Now do you understand Matt's hold out. Maybe he will settle for less, but not much less.

why are you trying to be so antagonistic??? I guess that we on this forum must agree with the few who fell that they are running this forum, when it is really run by others who have done a great job in managing this site. We all have our own opinions so please let us state them without retaliation.

BOBCAT

 

[JeffGollin]

My biggest concern has to do with karma. I realize football decisions should always trump buzz, but the Cardinals have been riding the crest of a gorgeous off-season wave.

All it's taken is one day for all the "same old same old" naysayers to come out of the woodwork and throw a negative blanket over what should be an enthusiastic kickoff to training camp.

I'm not for Pollyanna. I'm not for phony hype. But when you have legitimate reasons for excitement, it's nice to feel good about the team. It would be really cool if we could enjoy the positive momentum for once in our lives.

That said, I suggest we all try to ignore the Leinart situation and its negative buzz (whatever will happen will happen when it happens) and focus on important stuff - like Rolle looking solid coming off rehab and Pope torching Hunter during a drill today.

 

[Renz]

That is because you have a hard time understanding English language. What is happening is exactly what I stated. Matt and his agents want Vince young type money.

No offense, but you have no idea if that's true or not.

 

[NuttinButTDs]

The whole situation is blown out of proportion. There are people who cry "gawd almighty" when Vernon Davis became the highest paid TE. He got the contract that was acceptable to the level he was picked. How many times does a TE get picked this early in the draft.

Matt will get a contract that will be a tad (smidgen, a couple of thou) less than Ernie Sims, but a lot more than Cutler in guaranted monies. His total contract value is of no value as it will be re-done if he is as good as prophesized by the pundits. The length of the contract is and will be the sticking issue.

Incidently, Bush got at least 2+ mil less than Williams and 1.9M less than Young if you count taxes. Texas or Tenessesse have no State income tax on wages earned.

Have your favorite drink, do not jinx Warner and lets get some football started.

 

[CorporalCardinal]

......hint hint......

 

[ajcardfan]

That is because you have a hard time understanding English language. What is happening is exactly what I stated. Mat and his agents want Vince young type money. Now do you understand Matt's hold out. Maybe he will settle for less, but not much less.

why are you trying to be so antagonistic??? I guess that we on this forum must agree with the few who fell that they are running this forum, when it is really run by others who have done a great job in managing this site. We all have our own opinions so please let us state them without retaliation.

BOBCAT

Oh, please, drop all the drama. Discussion is not "retaliation".

Yes, I understand the English language. I'll just wait until I hear from Leinart, his agent, or the Cardinals, when they speak it in English, that they want Young's contract. Until then, you are just guessing like everyone else.