Leinart just trashed Whiz

[LDL]

We will see with the Whizzy in Tenn. I wish him the best but my feelings on him are about the same as my feelings on X-Wifey #2.

 

[MoeIsBetter]

I think the most telling thing I took out of that was the "Warner would come in every week with 20-30 of his own plays." That's a HUGE part of the game plan!

 

[GuernseyCard]

I think the most telling thing I took out of that was the "Warner would come in every week with 20-30 of his own plays." That's a HUGE part of the game plan!

20 or 30 more than Captain Hot Tub, I imagine.

 

[DemsMyBoys]

Sounds like Matty wants a new TV career as the edgy ex-QB. If he said, "Whiz is a great guy and I'm glad I got the chance to hold a clipboard during the SuperBowl because I sure didn't have what it takes to actually get us there" no one would be paying attention to him.

I'd guess his agent was standing somewhere close by giving him the thumbs up.

 

[CardsFan88]

Well I think Leinart looks pretty bad because he shouldn't of commented....

But since he did I think he makes some good points.

While he does come off bitter, calling Warner fantastic adds to his credibility in that he's not blaming everyone around him, just pointing out that he feels that what Kurt brought to supposedly Whiz's offense and what Warner himself did was his belief of why that offense was so good.

In fairness this is a question many of us on this board talked a bunch about. Were we running Whiz's offense, or Kurt's? Many of us felt Kurt's.

Basically he's saying we didn't run Whiz's offense, but mostly Kurt Warner's offense, so in essence he was saying Kurt Warner was our OC and QB. Then rattles off what happened after and how Mike McCoy and Norv Turner plays were big in SD's offense this season.

"Every single Monday, Kurt Warner would come in an implement 20-to-30 new plays which he would say ‘I want these in my game plan.' We became a spread offense and we became Kurt Warner's offense. Then Kurt Warner retires, they go 5-11 twice and they go 8-8."

He makes some real valid points that are the Titans getting Mike McCoy, Norv Turner, or Kurt Warner? Nope. They are getting Whiz, and while I'm sure Whiz will bring some of all three in terms of plays with him, we don't know how much rubbed off, or if he'll revert to his own style more and to the detriment of the Titans. But also credit should go to Whiz for making the changes.

It's all a guessing game now, but in three or so years, his words might turn out to of been prophetic. Though again, it also depends on Locker and/or who else they bring in to play QB and how well they do.

In other words... we'll see. He does look like a douche, but there are some things in it that we'll be able to look back in hindsight to see if he was right.

At least that's my take.

 

[AZ Native]

I think the difference is that Leinart, with as much exposure and notoriety as he still has, is held to a higher set of circumstances than the fans, and his life was somewhat professionally (and personally) affected by Whiz, even though I think Leinart should take responsibility for his own demise in AZ. Therefore, he comes off as having sour grapes and completely lacks objectivity. IMO, it was an opportunity for Matt to take a free shot at Whiz.

He could've gone the professional route and just said, "no comment," or tried to give a true analysis as opposed to mitigation.

5/5

 

[desertdawg]

I have a job where people pay me to give my opinion, and I will give it honestly. My stay in Arizona was not a pleasure for me. The coach that drafted me was soon gone, and then a cold Whiz blew through the door. He never liked me, or gave me a chance is the way I felt about it. Once Warner grabbed the wheel after my injury, Whiz had his guy, and he even let his guy do all the implementing of plays because Kurt could do what I couldn't at the time, and that was making the offense work. When it was again my time, I was passed up and let go once I said it was my time and I feel my stats proved that, against the QB competition I had. Whiz felt otherwise, he said you should get in the lockeroom, and watch tape on how Kurt handles pressure, gets the ball out, and how he spaces out his paragraphs. I vowed I would never space out a paragraph again, if it's like that than it's like that Coach. I got honeys in the hot tub right now and they don't tell me to space anything, they just want to be in my space. So once I told the media how it was, Coach told me how it was, and he said I was a was as far as the Arizona Cardinals was concerned. I was like what? USC! I did'nt land on Reggie Bush, Pete Carroll paid me. Than Coach said if kept talking like that he probably wouldn't even try to get value out of me even in trade. But now I have a microphone on a big time SPORTS station, now I am in a position to let some lockeroom information out to get my revenge. Out for revenge, been waiting years to say Warner was why we won. I'm still pop pop poppin my collar, chillin with millions, and I'll never even try to space out my paragraphs because I am so coachable.

 

[conraddobler]

What Warner did says more about Whiz with oodles more credibility than anything anyone else could say.

He RETIRED.

I blame this on...... Grimm who had assembled such a terrible line that I feel Warner felt in danger, so much so he retired rather than get millions.

With his quick release, this team, had management spent the RIGHT money on the O line, Warner doesn't retire I'm guessing.

With our line he had no choice, he hinted in several interviews right after that the deciding factor was our line.

Who hired the guy who had the MOST impact on our line?

Yeah and who hired him again?

Whiz is a tool IMHO, Matt isn't our QB, we have a new freaking coach, and a new front office.

Quit trying to beat this crap to death, Whiz don't work here no more and for that I am glad.

I'm glad Matt isn't here too now.

I'm only really sad that Boldin is gone, love to get him back, other ex Cardinals are dead to me, coaches and players, once you take off the bird, go f yourself.

 

[Bert]

Hey Matt, those plays that Warner brought in to talk about on Monday with coach,, yeah those were called meetings. Yeah, you were supposed to go to those.

 

[moklerman]

Was Warner retiring and losing out on Peyton all tied to the same concerns I wonder?

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Hey Matt, those plays that Warner brought in to talk about on Monday with coach,, yeah those were called meetings. Yeah, you were supposed to go to those.

Exactly. I've read where Brady has a gameplan somewhat developed as to what kind of plays he'd like to run against the following week's opponent by the time the plane lands from a road trip.

All the good QB's do this. And no matter what Leinart says, the plays were within the framework of the offense Whiz had created.

 

[Cardiac]

Exactly. I've read where Brady has a gameplan somewhat developed as to what kind of plays he'd like to run against the following week's opponent by the time the plane lands from a road trip.

All the good QB's do this. And no matter what Leinart says, the plays were within the framework of the offense Whiz had created.

Yes they do but then that takes away ammo for those attaching Whiz. Love BA and what he has done and he asks CP which plays he prefers. He also asks Mendy which running plays he wants BA to call for him.

I am still baffled by those who give Whiz zero credit for what he accomplished with the Cards.

Won the SB as an OC. Helped resurrect Warner's career. Dragged the freakin Cardinals to the SB. Won two division titles. 4-2 post season record. Helps resurrect Rivers career. Had at least two NFL teams fighting over him to become their HC this offseason.

Yet some still think it was Haley, or a pair of gloves or Warner all by himself that was the reason for Whiz's accomplishments in the NFL.

Leinart simply doesn't have the mental fortitude or leadership qualities to be an NFL QB. If he did he would still be in the NFL.

I guess it's fun for some to come up with crazy conspiracy theories. Maybe Whiz's eyes are too close together or his smile annoys some people.

 

[cardpa]

For his part, Warner said on NFL Network that he thinks Whisenhunt will do a great job with the Titans. Warner added, however, that he thought the Lions — who also wanted Whisenhunt — would have been a better choice for what Whisenhunt brings to the table.

“I’m excited for my old coach Ken Whisenhunt and the job down in Tennessee,” Warner said. “I think I’m a little bit surprised like my most people; you felt like a better fit might be in Detroit just because of the pieces that he had, specifically the quarterback he had there.”

I think what Warner said here alludes to what Whiz is able to do with QBs. Warner certainly seem to say in so many words that Detroit was a better place for Whiz because there was an established QB there. In Tennessee the QB position is much like it was in AZ after Warner retired. How Whiz handles the QB situation in Titan land will determine his success or failure as a HC.

 

[clif]

Yes they do but then that takes away ammo for those attaching Whiz. Love BA and what he has done and he asks CP which plays he prefers. He also asks Mendy which running plays he wants BA to call for him.

I am still baffled by those who give Whiz zero credit for what he accomplished with the Cards.

Won the SB as an OC. Helped resurrect Warner's career. Dragged the freakin Cardinals to the SB. Won two division titles. 4-2 post season record. Helps resurrect Rivers career. Had at least two NFL teams fighting over him to become their HC this offseason.

Yet some still think it was Haley, or a pair of gloves or Warner all by himself that was the reason for Whiz's accomplishments in the NFL.

Leinart simply doesn't have the mental fortitude or leadership qualities to be an NFL QB. If he did he would still be in the NFL.

I guess it's fun for some to come up with crazy conspiracy theories. Maybe Whiz's eyes are too close together or his smile annoys some people.

The same can be said for Dennis Green. People don't want to give him any credit even though he drafted Fitz, Dockett, Dansby and brought Warner to the desert.

The truth is always somewhere in the middle. Everyone on that team had a hand in making the SuperBowl. There were a million reasons this team was successful and a million more why they failed after Warner left.

Warner retired because he was tired of getting hit. Peyton didn't sign because he didn't want to get hit.

The Oline stunk and stinks now. No QB in their right mind would want to stand behind there are continue to take a beating. Whiz, Graves, and company were ALL responsible for that.

Now let's see what the new guys do in year two.

 

[Zeno]

To me Whisenhunt is an effective coach if he is given the talent to work with (Big Ben, Warner, Rivers). BUT I never saw an ounce of evidence that he has what it takes to identify quality QBs.

Look at the QBs he either pursued or actually brought to the team...
Derek Anderson
Charlie Whitehurst (tried to trade for and thankfully were outbid by Seattle)
Marc Bulger (supposedly the front office said no)
Kevin Kolb
Ryan Lindley
Jon Skelton

The last 2 you can argue he had no intention on starting but those other 4 don't speak to his ability to recognize talent.

Didn't we hear that Michael Bidwill asked him how they rated Russell Wilson in the draft after the shellacking we got in Seattle last year? I am guessing Bidwill didn't like the answer.

His coaching staff is a whole different matter too--Mike Miller & Russ Grimm were woefully inadequate at their jobs and never were replaced due to loyalty.

I wish him luck in Nashville and hope he has a strong front office and learned from some of his errors from his first HC gig. I still have a signed Whisenhunt photo hanging on the wall, he did bring us to a Super Bowl but I wouldn't trade our current staff for his ever.

 

[cardpa]

I think he has a legitimate gripe with Ken Wisenhunt. He was definitely more talented than max hall and derek anderson and probably john skelton but for whatever reason KW cut him and now Leinart is going to take a shot at him.

I like Ken Wisenhunt as coach of the Cardinals and am grateful for the Superbowl run and the playoff game against the Green Bay Packers. That said, it is not as simple to say that he just was unlucky in finding a QB. He was responsible for the crappy QBs who started and the inability to find even a competent starter. He also destroyed any confidence these guys had by putting them in a system that they were not suited to play.

I agree mostly with Bill Barnwell's take on the Titan's hire:

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/ken-whisenhunt-rides-the-nfl-coaching-carousel/

I agree with Bill Barnwell's take on the hiring and description of Whiz. He changed QBs, and Rbs like he changed his underwear. I think the largest damnation of Whiz is a good part of why he was brought to AZ was to develop Leinart which he never did nor did he develop anyone else. Warner and Rivers were/are QBs with plenty of seasons under their belts before Whiz came along. He was credited with developing Big Ben in Pittsburgh and he was expected to do the same with Leinart. It never happened. Instead He and Leinart pretty much were at odds during the entire relationship. As much as some here despise Leinart he was certainly if developed right as least better than anyone else who started at QB after Warner retired.

I was not a big supporter of picking Leinart in the draft however he could have been at least a decent game manager instead of a turnover machine and Scud tossing QBs that followed his departure.

 

[TJ]

Playing Devil's Advocate on the whole "Whisenhunt sucks at evaluating QBs" narrative.

Typically, QBoFs are taken in the first and second round of drafts and normally, the head coach is there for their developmental process. In the five seasons Whiz was our head coach, we drafted two QBs: John Skelton (5th round) and Ryan Lindley (6th round). Neither of which had QBoF potential, but rather project guys (when does a team bank on 3rd day guys being the long-term answer?). He had a first round QB in Leinart, but I don't think Bill Walsh could've salvaged his career, and either way, Whiz did not like Leinart. It would've been interesting to have Whiz in 2006 to see whether he would've picked Leinart or Cutler. My guess is the latter.

So it'll be interesting to see if he's given the opportunity to draft his own QB in the early rounds, kind of like what happened with BigBen, with hopes of that player becoming a long-term answer. I sincerely doubt Locker is that guy and Fitzpatrick is a journeyman player at best. I suspect that Tennessee will be picking QB early in 2014 or '15, giving Whiz the true opportunity to develop his own guy.

 

[Big Deal]

Playing Devil's Advocate on the whole "Whisenhunt sucks at evaluating QBs" narrative.

Typically, QBoFs are taken in the first and second round of drafts and normally, the head coach is there for their developmental process. In the five seasons Whiz was our head coach, we drafted two QBs: John Skelton (5th round) and Ryan Lindley (6th round). Neither of which had QBoF potential, but rather project guys (when does a team bank on 3rd day guys being the long-term answer?). He had a first round QB in Leinart, but I don't think Bill Walsh could've salvaged his career, and either way, Whiz did not like Leinart. It would've been interesting to have Whiz in 2006 to see whether he would've picked Leinart or Cutler. My guess is the latter.

So it'll be interesting to see if he's given the opportunity to draft his own QB in the early rounds, kind of like what happened with BigBen, with hopes of that player becoming a long-term answer. I sincerely doubt Locker is that guy and Fitzpatrick is a journeyman player at best. I suspect that Tennessee will be picking QB early in 2014 or '15, giving Whiz the true opportunity to develop his own guy.

What makes you say that? Based on his awesome draft track record? Whiz couldn't identify talent to save his life. We know that he was in charge of the drafts based on how much control he had in the organization. He ran Warner off and he ran Boldin off.

Dennis Green ran circles around Whiz in talent evaluations. So he picked Leinart over Cutler, no one knew if the kid from a small school could handle the pressure. I still don't think Cutler is a franchise QB and would hate it to have him as the face of our franchise. He is a giant baby and looks like he has a touch of the downs. Leinart over Cutler can never be as bad as Brown over Peterson.

 

[cardncubfan]

What makes you say that? Based on his awesome draft track record? Whiz couldn't identify talent to save his life. We know that he was in charge of the drafts based on how much control he had in the organization. He ran Warner off and he ran Boldin off.

Dennis Green ran circles around Whiz in talent evaluations. So he picked Leinart over Cutler, no one knew if the kid from a small school could handle the pressure. I still don't think Cutler is a franchise QB and would hate it to have him as the face of our franchise. He is a giant baby and looks like he has a touch of the downs. Leinart over Cutler can never be as bad as Brown over Peterson.

 

[Covert Rain]

ML is a tool who pissed his career away. Like it or not Whisenhunt changed the culture around here for the better and that had much to do with our success.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Always a defender of matty until the end, but this is pretty low class, and illustrates why he probably didn't succeed here. His attitude is jacked up.

But also, the team was broken last year. The offense was such a train wreck that it closely approached being unwatchable. Ultimate responsibility for on the field performance lies with the occupant of the corner office in the coaches section of the building, and a change had to be made. There was no other choice.

 

[Shane]

What makes you say that? Based on his awesome draft track record? Whiz couldn't identify talent to save his life. We know that he was in charge of the drafts based on how much control he had in the organization. He ran Warner off and he ran Boldin off.

Dennis Green ran circles around Whiz in talent evaluations. So he picked Leinart over Cutler, no one knew if the kid from a small school could handle the pressure. I still don't think Cutler is a franchise QB and would hate it to have him as the face of our franchise. He is a giant baby and looks like he has a touch of the downs. Leinart over Cutler can never be as bad as Brown over Peterson.

Dennis Green had one good draft here and it was very good the rest were garbage!

There is a handful of true star level players on this roster thanks to Whiz last I checked. His biggest fault is an inability to find a QB.

 

[desertdawg]

Dennis Green had one good draft here and it was very good the rest were garbage!

There is a handful of true star level players on this roster thanks to Whiz last I checked. His biggest fault is an inability to find a QB.

One thing I still try to figure out, was Whiz so confident in his QB coaching that he could get results out of hella late rounds, or did he think those guys were NFL starters? I aint knocking Whiz's over all drafting, I agree we have some key faces in place because of the guy. Why didn't he ever pull the trigger early on a QB?

Tennesse will likely have the answer, hopefully, to what if Whiz got a first rounder he liked.

 

[Cardiac]

It truly makes me sad. Well so be it. Some will hate because.....well I don't know why but it is what it is.

CC, PP, DWash are three tremendous talents that were drafter during Whiz's tenure. At least equal to DD, Fitz & Los.

ML is a gutless turd who didn't work hard enough or care enough to succeed in the NFL, not Whiz's fault. TJ put it well, given turds to work with one can polish them all they want but what you still have is a turd. There wasn't anyone worth a crap available when the Cards picked up DA to be the back up.

Having said that Whiz did let the most important position on the team fall apart. Kolb couldn't stay healthy and Bones just didn't have it upstairs. It cost him his job and rightly so. I believe he will do well in Tennessee.

But as someone said it takes more than one guy to get your team to the SB. That one guy wasn't Warner or Haley or Whiz or Los or DD or Adub but with all the talent in the world if your HC isn't very good to great than your team isn't going to the SB. Need a great QB and HC or no soup for you.

 

[8ndkorner]

Makes no sense! Leinart has no credibility whatsoever. He should shut his pie hole & go find a job at a car wash! What a pathetic piece of crap!

I'm impressed that he read the story.