Let’s Take a Moment to Overreact to Kyler’s IG Page

[SoonerLou]

My take is that Kyler is probably very aware of the history of this franchise and is probably being advised we want to get a commitment from them they're going to try and put good players around you and build a foundation. That is getting Watt and Green and Hudson was great but you gotta do your job in the draft to get YOUNG talent so you don't have to keep bringing in veterans to cover holes due to bad drafting. I think that's a good thing. Saying we'll take less money(cap hit probably not actually less money) to help you sign guys is great, I think that's in part about Christian Kirk.

But it's gotta be handled better, the agent appears to be making things worse and Kyler should have handled his end of it better too.

At least we know that they're smart enough to get that if he really wants a commitment part of that is HIM committing by being willing to help the team sign FA"s and retain their own players

Exactly the issue.



Its no coincidence the picture posted of Kyler is with Ceedee Lamb and Justin Jefferson with it. Its also not a coincidence his father is liking tweets of Kyler and Wirfs.

They dont believe management has a case. Cause he's one of the guys that actually worked. Now watch us draft Kyler Gordon this year who'll be Murphy's replacement after we cant pay him a year from now.

Both are being unlikable. Both have their faults (Kyler and Keim).

So we'll just say how this ugly mess plays out.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

The Cardinals should just say "Nah, let's wait and see. We got your ass for the next 3 years or so, so give it a rest.". If they pay him $40+ mil now, they are idiots IMO.

Cowboys did the exact same thing with Dak and it didn't work out for them. QB prices will keep going up exponentially.

Waiting isn't the best answer when it comes to QBs. If he is your QBoF, pay him, if not trade him. It should be that simple.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

How exactly should the FO have handled this?

Specific to the latest drama, the Cards haven't defended multiple anonymous reports slamming Murray, and have let Kyler hung out to dry in several situations. Not what you do with your alleged franchise QB.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Moving to the main IG thread.

 

[BritCard]

Or Kyler works his butt off this offseason, we finally have a good draft, do well in FA, and he plays better next year and earns the extension. From the wording of that it's apparent they want the extension now and think they can lower his cap hit so we can sign more FA's, that sounds good but it's kind of glossing over we want an extension part and the team is going to have to make that decision and I'd prefer they wait on that which means the cap help from an extension won't come this FA period.

You think after all this so early there's a scenario where he does all that without getting extended? Seems unlikely.

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[BritCard]

Trying to imagine how playing like 'crap' advances his goals and can't think of a solitary one.

Trying to think how the current strategy advances his goal and can't think of one either.

 

[BritCard]

I think he does. AS the season went on you could see how frustrated he got with AJ Green and with some of the OL. Now some of that is his fault too but I think he grasps that what people around the NFL were saying was true, because of bad drafts the cards had to sign veterans to cover holes and as a result we had very weak depth.

If we don't blow the pick with Isabella and some others we probably don't see AJ Green looking the wrong way or Andy standing on the sideline not even dressed etc.

This is backwards. A rookie WR or C would make far more mistakes and lead to more frustration than vets like Green and Hudson. Which is why I think there's been more focus on vets.

 

[Billy Bob]

I can't believe this media fodder is still going!

 

[BritCard]

Fair enough. I'm just saying it's been stated repeatedly he wanted us to draft Cee Dee Lamb and that he wanted us to draft an OL and we took 2 LB's. I don't think it's a stretch to suggest he's not happy with some of the draft picks, because it's been widely reported he wasn't.

No QB on their rookie deal should be getting pissed about draft picks. That's the remit of 12 year vets and even then only the divas.

If Kyler is spitting his dummy out because of picks it only makes it worse.

 

[Russ Smith]

You think after all this so early there's a scenario where he does all that without getting extended? Seems unlikely.

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I do because I genuinely believe it when Kyler says he hates to lose. People who played with him in college etc all say that that guy just hates to lose. And I think he will get it now the next step for him is not really physical, it's learning to think the position, read defenses, step up to avoid the rush etc. I'm sure people have been telling him that for 3 years but I think he saw it this year, in the games Colt played and in the collapse down the stretch.

Hopefully he can self scout and apply that.

 

[Stout]

Cowboys did the exact same thing with Dak and it didn't work out for them. QB prices will keep going up exponentially.

Waiting isn't the best answer when it comes to QBs. If he is your QBoF, pay him, if not trade him. It should be that simple.

If that decision absolutely, positively has to be made this offseason? 100 percent trade him. We HAVE to see if he has any chance at maturing THIS season before paying him tons of money. If he doesn't significantly mature, he's going to be worthless towards the aims of the playoffs and the SB.

 

[BritCard]

I do because I genuinely believe it when Kyler says he hates to lose. People who played with him in college etc all say that that guy just hates to lose. And I think he will get it now the next step for him is not really physical, it's learning to think the position, read defenses, step up to avoid the rush etc. I'm sure people have been telling him that for 3 years but I think he saw it this year, in the games Colt played and in the collapse down the stretch.

Hopefully he can self scout and apply that.

He does hate to lose.

The problem is he never thinks he's the reason he loses. He's the test tube QB that missed the height gene in his mind. Born for it. Naturally gifted.

When you don't think you're at fault you don't put the work in to get better.

He doesn't need to get better. Everyone else does.

 

[Russ Smith]

No QB on their rookie deal should be getting pissed about draft picks. That's the remit of 12 year vets and even then only the divas.

If Kyler is spitting his dummy out because of picks it only makes it worse.

I just don't agree there. he was drafted to be the franchise QB. that doesn't mean he makes the picks for you but i do think his input should be valued. it's not like he was telling us to draft 4th rounders in the first round he was telling us to take projected high first rounders, in the first round.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

I don't follow, Lamb was on the board, as was Jeudy, we took a LB. There were also reports Kyler had said he really wanted us to pick an OL, don't know if he meant Wirfs but he was on the board. Last year again there was talk Kyler wanted an OL and we took collins.

The team was 3-13 with one of the worst offenses in NFL history the year before we picked Kyler. Since Kyler was picked we have drafted exactly 3 offensive players in the first 3 rounds of the draft, Isabella(2) the same year as Kyler, Josh Jones(3) the next year, and Rondale Moore (2) last year. Generally when teams are bad enough to get the first overall pick and they take a QB, they then start to try and surround him with talent.

We did a GREAT job getting D Hop, we did a great job getting Hudson, we did a great job trading for Ertz, but I don't think it's wrong to say if we'd drafted better we wouldn't have needed to sign Green, trade for Hudson etc

Just saying that a young QB doesn't get to make player personnel decisions and throwing a tantrum because "your guy" didn't get drafted is weak sauce.

We have also drafted other offensive players during the time period you mentioned.

Michal Menet, C, Penn State
Eno Benjamin, RB, Arizona State
Hakeem Butler, WR, Iowa State
KeeSean Johnson, WR, Fresno State
Lamont Gaillard, C, Georgia
Joshua Miles, OT, Morgan State
Caleb Wilson, TE, UCLA

 

[Russ Smith]

He does hate to lose.

The problem is he never thinks he's the reason he loses. He's the test tube QB that missed the height gene in his mind. Born for it. Naturally gifted.

When you don't think your at fault you don't put the work in to get better.

He doesn't need to get better. Everyone else does.

I get that but I think one of the thing we see with this "generation", moreso in hoops but also football IMO is the way they come up now with AAU hoops and passing leagues etc in football one of the negatives is kids learn to not hate to lose. It drives me nuts with college hoops but I see it in football too guys are so focused on getting to the NFL that they see college as a means to an end, they don't really care if the team loses if they enhance their draft stock.

I don't think that's Kyler. I do get your point about he may not hold himself accountable I don't really know.

 

[Russ Smith]

Just saying that a young QB doesn't get to make player personnel decisions and throwing a tantrum because "your guy" didn't get drafted is weak sauce.

We have also drafted other offensive players during the time period you mentioned.

Michal Menet, C, Penn State
Eno Benjamin, RB, Arizona State
Hakeem Butler, WR, Iowa State
KeeSean Johnson, WR, Fresno State
Lamont Gaillard, C, Georgia
Joshua Miles, OT, Morgan State
Caleb Wilson, TE, UCLA

None of them in the top 3 rounds when you figure to get good players.

I don't think he threw a tantrum I think the point is had the team listened to him we probably would have drafted better than we did.

On that list Eno is the only guy still with a future, Miles is horrible and the rest of the guys are gone.

 

[SoonerLou]

I just don't agree there. he was drafted to be the franchise QB. that doesn't mean he makes the picks for you but i do think his input should be valued. it's not like he was telling us to draft 4th rounders in the first round he was telling us to take projected high first rounders, in the first round.

Could make a strong argument we make the playoffs in 2020 and probably avoid the Rams in the 1st round in 2021 season if we draft Tristan Wirfs. Or DK Metcalf (or any of the other pro bowl wrs we passed up in 2019.) Or, etc etc.

Even despite Kyler issues we would have been and could help cover up flaws on the team.

Maybe this drama will be the thing that finally gets Keim fired. We can debate whether Kyler is the guy longterm or not. However, Keim needs to really surround himself with better people for the draft.

I think Kliff, Keim and Kyler need to send a big thank you to Bill O'Brien. Cause its possible 2 of those guys have been fired and Kyler is hoping for a 5th year extension.

 

[Russ Smith]

This is backwards. A rookie WR or C would make far more mistakes and lead to more frustration than vets like Green and Hudson. Which is why I think there's been more focus on vets.

I think you're being circular. We picked up vets to help Kyler yes, but largely because the guys we drafted to help him didn't pan out.

Sure young guys make more mistakes but who would you rather have had at WR2 the last 2 years, Lamb/Jeudy with Kirk in the slot, or Kirk/Green?

I get why we didn't go WR that draft we traded for Hop, but then as lots of people here, not me, said we should draft Wirfs we need to build the offense around Kyler.

Simmons was a good athlete but it was so obvious that he might not have a set position that in hindsight it's crazy the guys we passed up to take him. I sure hope he pans out or that will be a colossal mistake.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

If that decision absolutely, positively has to be made this offseason? 100 percent trade him. We HAVE to see if he has any chance at maturing THIS season before paying him tons of money. If he doesn't significantly mature, he's going to be worthless towards the aims of the playoffs and the SB.

You think his maturity is the biggest thing holding this team back? I don't. It is Keim and his terrible drafting.
Then the lack of in game adjustments on both sides of the ball.

Kyler's immaturity is much further down the list IMO.

 

[Stout]

You think his maturity is the biggest thing holding this team back? I don't. It is Keim and his terrible drafting.
Then the lack of in game adjustments on both sides of the ball.

Kyler's immaturity is much further down the list IMO.

You're moving the goal posts. The question is to extend him or not and, in this theoretical scenario, the decision has to be made this offseason. I don't care about Keim and his terrible drafting in that scenario. I care about what Kyler has done, or rather hasn't done. Without knowing if he'll suddenly "get it," and with only a thin veneer of hope that the light will finally come on, I would punt and get the biggest haul possible.

 

[BritCard]

I get that but I think one of the thing we see with this "generation", moreso in hoops but also football IMO is the way they come up now with AAU hoops and passing leagues etc in football one of the negatives is kids learn to not hate to lose. It drives me nuts with college hoops but I see it in football too guys are so focused on getting to the NFL that they see college as a means to an end, they don't really care if the team loses if they enhance their draft stock.

I don't think that's Kyler. I do get your point about he may not hold himself accountable I don't really know.

Its funny because he says he just wants to win, yet has shown no drive to do so when the chips are down.

He had one comeback win last year vs the Vikings and that was down to a missed FG.

A love of winning is completely redundant if he can't see what's required to achieve it.

I honestly believe when he says "I want to win" he doesn't mean "I want to make us win". He means "I want it to be more like Allen and OU. Can you surround me with better players than most others so I just show up and do my thing".

 

[BritCard]

You think his maturity is the biggest thing holding this team back? I don't. It is Keim and his terrible drafting.
Then the lack of in game adjustments on both sides of the ball.

Kyler's immaturity is much further down the list IMO.

Literally just started 10-2. People seem to forget that rather easily.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Just saying that a young QB doesn't get to make player personnel decisions and throwing a tantrum because "your guy" didn't get drafted is weak sauce.

We have also drafted other offensive players during the time period you mentioned.

Michal Menet, C, Penn State
Eno Benjamin, RB, Arizona State
Hakeem Butler, WR, Iowa State
KeeSean Johnson, WR, Fresno State
Lamont Gaillard, C, Georgia
Joshua Miles, OT, Morgan State
Caleb Wilson, TE, UCLA

You're right, they are offensive.

 

[BritCard]

How about everyone stops blaming Kyler's deficiencies on other players that we have or don't have?

There are far better QBs proven themselves in this league with far worse surrounding talent.

If Kyler is reliant on elite talent everywhere he's not much of a QB is he?

 

[Russ Smith]

Its funny because he says he just wants to win, yet has shown no drive to do so when the chips are down.

He had one comeback win last year vs the Vikings and that was down to a missed FG.

A love of winning is completely redundant if he can't see what's required to achieve it.

I honestly believe when he says "I want to win" he doesn't mean "I want to make us win". He means "I want it to be more like Allen and OU. Can you surround me with better players than most others so I just show up and do my thing".

Ok but look at the Packers game where the season went south, leads us right down the field for a game winning TD, AJ Green apparently missed an audible not really sure looks the wrong way ball is picked off. Kyler did damn near everything right on that last drive to win that game against a good team, we lost and you could see how crushed he was.

My point is if a guy doesn't hate to lose then it's not worth keeping him, Kyler does hate to lose so now we have to find the right levers to flip to get him to the next level.

I'm old enough to remember the first offseason in Denver when Jake Plummer said the offseason program there was totally different from the Cards and he could tell he was with a real team now. And then the Cards leaked to reporters that in fact Jake Plummer not ONCE in his Cards career attended offseason workouts! He was throwing the team under the bus for something he didn't do. ANd what infuriated me the most about that is they let him do that, for SIX years! Covid has impacted 2 of Kyler's seasons but IMO he's already shown far more interest in being great than Jake ever did.

Jake didn't get the support he needed from the franchise, and IMO he took advantage of it and coasted and that's why in Denver even when winning big and playing well, Shanahan wanted to move on from him. He got it, this guy is who he is, i can scheme him better but in the end he just doesn't want to work hard enough to fix the things he's not good at.

I don't want us to get that far along with Kyler so I think it's good this stuff is coming out now so we can fix it. If they really think he doesn't care by all means trade him, I just don't think that's what they think