Lets say we win the #1 pick

[Covert Rain]

In this draft it could happen. That's why I entertain a trade down a notch or two.

I wouldn't be opposed but if you can't find a gem with the top 3 players you might as well not win the #1 pick.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I wouldn't be opposed but if you can't find a gem with the top 3 players you might as well not win the #1 pick.

The only way I would trade down is if it was WITHIN the top three. Say the Lakers have #2 or #3 and they really want Ball, AND we would rather have Jackson anyway.

 

[Mainstreet]

I wouldn't be opposed but if you can't find a gem with the top 3 players you might as well not win the #1 pick.

If the Suns drafted # 1 and could trade down to #3 and pick up additional assets, I'm all ears.

 

[Covert Rain]

If the Suns drafted # 1 and could trade down to #3 and pick up additional assets, I'm all ears.

As long as they feel they are getting the best player or that said player is worthy of the #1 pick and can still get him at #3.

 

[Mainstreet]

As long as they feel they are getting the best player or that said player is worthy of the #1 pick and can still get him at #3.

This is what I'm thinking. Of course it requires another team to offer quality assets to move up to the first pick. Certainly the Suns would have to be happy with whoever is there at number 3.

 

[JCSunsfan]

As long as they feel they are getting the best player or that said player is worthy of the #1 pick and can still get him at #3.

I am thinking something like the Chris Webber--Penny Hardaway trade. Anyone remember that. Orlando traded Webber (first pick) for Penny Hardaway (third pick) and go three additional first rounders for their trouble.

And Penny was the better player!

 

[3rdside]

I used to be a magic fan cause of penny and came here when he got traded. Had all his basketball cards and everything and even used to laugh at guys that collected rodman cards until penny went bust and the joke was on me.

And yeah that was a good trade for Orlando even though the picks were used on garbage and Webber had the better career in the end.


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[JCSunsfan]

I used to be a magic fan cause of penny and came here when he got traded. Had all his basketball cards and everything and even used to laugh at guys that collected rodman cards until penny went bust and the joke was on me.

And yeah that was a good trade for Orlando even though the picks were used on garbage and Webber had the better career in the end.


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I don't think Webber had a better career. It might have been longer. But when Penny was truly healthy, he was a top 5 player in the league. At one time he was considered better than Shaq.

 

[slinslin]

I don't think Webber had a better career. It might have been longer. But when Penny was truly healthy, he was a top 5 player in the league. At one time he was considered better than Shaq.

Webber was a MVP candidate in his own right at the peak of his game. Penny might have had the slightly higher peak than Webber finishing 3rd in MVP voting once compared to Webbers 4th place finish and making 2 all-first teams while Webber only made 1 and 3 2nd teams.

But its hardly comparable Webber competed with Barkley, Malone, Duncan, Nowitzki, Garnett etc. He played in an era of the top 5 Power Forwards EVER.

Of course Webber had a better career, how is that even a question? Had Penny stayed healthy it might be a different story but he did not and Webber struggled with injuries himself.

 

[3rdside]

I am largely in agreement with slinslin for once.

Webber was outstanding for his entire career and if I had to choose between them starting a team from scratch based off of their best single season I'd probably go with Webber. I love assists from big men and there was very few better than him at this, if any - a 20-10 double double guy plus 5 assists is outstanding, whereas penny was a 21pts and 7ast guy which is statistically average.

Not saying penny wasn't awesome at his best, because he was, but I think people fell in love with him because he was a 6'7 PG and playing with Shaq wouldn't have hurt.

 

[3rdside]

For anyone that's been reading what I've been writing the last month or so about certain players elevating his team mates, it's hardaway that got me into thinking about it.

The 98-99 season, the year before he came to Phx, with dross on the roster (Armstrong at PG, Nick the Brick, Bo Outlaw and Horace Grant at the Forward spots) Orlando went 33-17 - good for 3rd in the east which just defied expectation.

Looking at his stats that season, and Dragic with Miami this season - I think I'm coming to the conclusion that in both of their cases, it isn't their raw ability that's generating above expectation wins, it's more likely their leadership and personality generating team spirit, or chemistry, that does it.

Both of them are largely selfless individuals.... I wonder if I have totally over analysed and missed the obvious on this!

 

[slinslin]

33-17 does not mean much

It was a lockout and the Eastern Conference was already well on its way to becoming a joke.

Couldn't resist to bring up Dragic again huh?

How is Miami above expectations in wins?!? Their recent hot streak was fueled by Dion Waiters playing like people expected from him when he was drafted, nobody believed he would make the turnaround.

Suns still have the same record vs the East than the Heat have, despite the tanking.

 

[3rdside]

lol, I'm not even going to explain myself other than to say I'll put one more notch in the slinslin just doesn't get it belt.

33-17 is 33-17 however you want to dice it - magic is not a point guard by the way and Lonzo Ball is a Rubio Marshall cross (although Rubio's turning out pretty good, it has to be said)..

Back in your box buddy.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Loved penny but for a career Webber was better.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Hmmmm. Guess I am totally outnumbered on this one. I will have to revisit the numbers. I just remember about three years in thinking Orlando got the better part of that deal. There was a point where Penny was being considered an MVP candidate over Shaq.

I guess Webber was better than I remember him.

 

[leclerc]

I also remember Penny as elite in Orlando. Webber was good for GS but we wipped them and he had Tim Hardaway, Mullin and Spree around him. That's more than Shaq and some over weight shooters which Penny made look really good, similar to how Nash was responsible for career best years for most of who went through Phoenix in the SSOL years.

I also think a "pass first" unselfish facilitator is important for a winning/entertaining team. For him to be most effective he must be able to penetrate and shoot (Rubio can't shoot, Marshall can't penetrate).

If you have Leflop, Jordan or Kobe you can replace the PG with a shooter and still be a great team apparently.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Early on Penny had the better team and an unstoppable force in shaq. They made the finals. Of course penny would be seen as better.

For their entire career Webber was more dominant. He was the only big for that warriors team initially and then he became a VERY important VERY good veteran for the Sacramento team that came within inches of the finals.

And for anyone to argue that any group of players was better than having shaq as a teammate prior to shaq moving to the heat has severe memory loss. No player has been as dominant as shaq post-MJ. Lebron is an incredibly skilled player. Definitely better all-around player than shaq. But shaq was a sheer physically unstoppable force.

 

[slinslin]

I also remember Penny as elite in Orlando. Webber was good for GS but we wipped them and he had Tim Hardaway, Mullin and Spree around him. That's more than Shaq and some over weight shooters which Penny made look really good, similar to how Nash was responsible for career best years for most of who went through Phoenix in the SSOL years.

I also think a "pass first" unselfish facilitator is important for a winning/entertaining team. For him to be most effective he must be able to penetrate and shoot (Rubio can't shoot, Marshall can't penetrate).

If you have Leflop, Jordan or Kobe you can replace the PG with a shooter and still be a great team apparently.

^^ I'll take a young Shaq over any combination of those Warriors.

You'd rather have an unstoppable force MVP-type player than 3 borderline allstars.

And those overweight shooters in Orlando were Nick Anderson and Dennis Scott? Those guys were 2 of the best 3pt shooters in the 90s from what I remember. They had a pretty damn good PG too.

Nick Anderson scored 20ppg the two seasons before Penny joined the Magic. Dennis Scott averaged 17/3/3 on great shooting. Dennis Scott averaged 20 without Penny before too.

Horace Grant was a pretty good player also.

 

[Mainstreet]

Slinslin, I like your new tier system. I'm not sure Jackson, Markkanen and Isaac should be on tier C.

Code:
Tier A: Markelle Fultz
Tier B: Lonzo Ball, Dennis Smith, Jayson Tatum
Tier C: Josh Jackson, Lauri Markkanen, Jonathan Isaac, De'aaron Fox, Malik Monk
Tier D: Miles Bridges
Tier S: Bam Adebayo, Terrance Ferguson, Harry Giles, Frank Ntilkina,Caleb Swanniga

 

[slinslin]

Well it is my opinion. I see no reason why Isaac should be higher than the other guys I put in there, and Draftexpress agrees with that, they have Isaac at 9. And I don't feel like putting Jackson in there with Ball, Tatum and Smith because he is a full year older and has more baggage. It would probably fair to put down Smith for some of that also (medical history) but I love Smith and think he is ready to play from day 1.

 

[Mainstreet]

Well it is my opinion. I see no reason why Isaac should be higher than the other guys I put in there, and Draftexpress agrees with that, they have Isaac at 9. And I don't feel like putting Jackson in there with Ball, Tatum and Smith because he is a full year older and has more baggage. It would probably fair to put down Smith for some of that also (medical history) but I love Smith and think he is ready to play from day 1.

It's almost like last year's draft where I would like the Suns to have two bites at the apple in the top ten.

 

[JCSunsfan]

So, we get the number 1 pick and Philly gets #2 and #4. They really want Fultz (or Ball) for the #1 so they trade #2 and #4 for #1. We take Ball (or Fultz) with #2.

We then trade Bledsoe, and a future 1st to move up from #4 to #3 and take Jackson.

We walk out of the draft with Ball (or Fultz) and Jackson.

 

[Mainstreet]

NBA Draft Net has changed their draft order. Here are their first five picks in their latest mock.

#1 Josh Jackson

#2 Lonzo Ball

#3 Markelle Fultz

#4 De'Aaron Fox

#5 Jayson Tatum

http://www.nbadraft.net/2017mock_draft

This is an interesting change with Fultz dropping to number #3.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

NBA Draft Net has changed their draft order. Here are their first five picks in their latest mock.

#1 Josh Smith

#2 Lonzo Ball

#3 Markelle Fultz

#4 De'Aaron Fox

#5 Jayson Tatum

http://www.nbadraft.net/2017mock_draft

This is an interesting change with Fultz dropping to number #3.

Josh smith?

 

[Mainstreet]

Josh smith?

It should read Josh Jackson. I'm glad you noticed.