Let's talk about trading down...

[WisconsinCard]

My fault
Didn't put the subject

Well you did quote me and that is who we were talking about...

 

[Proximo]

Me & a lot of people.

Why is it that Okudah is higher mocked than Simmons every where you look?

He’s looked at as a generational “athlete”, not a generational player. He’s not even better than Derwin James coming out.


He’s a box safety. He’s good at a lot of things, but he’s just average when it comes to attacking the hole.

He’s not the next coming of Patrick Willis where this board is making him as.

The reason is Simmons position is a bit unclear, and cb generally has a higher value than lb or safety.

but Simmons production and athleticism is fantastic. He is an exceptional mlb prospect - think urlacher.

 

[WisconsinCard]

no one is saying Okudah sucks. We would be lucky to get either

But you said (not to me) that person didn't like Simmons. Then you asked when he said who thinks okudah is better then Simmons. So I just added my two cents, that I have okudah as the second best player in this draft. And have read many experts that agree. Not sure why anyone thought you said he sucks?? But I'm old and Easily confused
...

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

no I’m not

6,5 240lbs Linebacker with the athletic traits of Megatron. Let me know when the last time that guy came around. I’ll wait they don’t grow on trees

2016

https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/travis-feeney

This guy’s a better jumper than Simmons, and eight pounds lighter.

 

[Finito]

2016

https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/travis-feeney

This guy’s a better jumper than Simmons, and eight pounds lighter.

seriously? Did he play like Simmons?

Kareem Martin had the same measurable as Clowney to. Takes a little bit of sense when talking about prospects.

uh this guy jumps as high as Randy Moss so there kinda the same

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

seriously? Did he play like Simmons?

Kareem Martin had the same measurable as Clowney to. Takes a little bit of sense when talking about prospects.

uh this guy jumps as high as Randy Moss so there kinda the same

bro, you just said FIND ME A BIG ATHLETIC GUY LIKE SIMMONS ILL WAIT

and I found one instantly from four years ago.

you never said anything about the quality of their play/instincts/alignment whatever

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

Bottom line is that Simmons could very easily flame out. Venables made 1st rd picks outta Ferrell and Lawrence last year and neither look all that Generational. Venables leveraged a lot of quality out of Simmons.

oh and Wilkins, too!

 

[Jetstream Green]

We have been burned before but that isn't a good enough reason to not do it again. Different players, different time, different humans making decisions, and potentially a different outcome.

I don't think I have ever been in the trade down fan club...until this year. Here is my thought process:

• Young, Okudah, and most likely Simmons will be gone (if Simmons is there, you take him)
• DEEP draft at OT and WR...the two positions we keep debating
• No consensus on #1 OT or WR with several options
• We don't have a 2nd round pick - very valuable in a talented draft
• The guy we like at #8 could also be there are #10, #12, and maybe #16

The key point in all drafts is taking the best player.

Ozzie Newsome was not only an amazing GM but he was one hell of a draft strategist. Here is an article about getting Lamar Jackson with

Peter King of NBC’s Football Morning in America talked to Ravens General Manager Eric DeCosta about the process of the 2018 NFL Draft that produced their future.

With the top names at the position going in the top 10, the Ravens knew they liked the Louisville quarterback, but thought they could move down.

It did, and they dealt the 16th pick to Buffalo for 22 and 65.

“We get to 22, and all of the players we liked are still there,” DeCosta said. “So we traded again.”

They moved 22 to the Titans for 25 and 125, but then used the 25th pick on South Carolina tight end Hayden Hurst, before trading back to the 32nd pick to get Jackson, giving the Eagles their 2019 second-rounder to move back up. That was not without some nervousness, but DeCosta said he and Newsome had kept their interest in Jackson largely to themselves.

“We didn’t even interview Lamar at the combine because we didn’t want to be associated with him. We didn’t want rumors about us and him to start. They didn’t. We were proud of that. So we pick him, and to hear him talk, and to hear his emotion and to see Lamar on TV with Deion Sanders, so happy, and to see his conviction, and to see his competitiveness. That’s a powerful thing. So, after the pick was announced, we hadn’t even had the chance to tell the scouts and coaches.

“And I think it’s probably the first time in my 24 years that you could hear cheering outside the draft room. You could hear the coaches and you could hear the scouts. That was a powerful moment for us.”

And one that changed a franchise.

The info below is a bit older but has a lot of info on trading up/down in 1st round. Unless we are 100% sure there is a guy at #8 that won't drop and will be a sure fire starter/pro bowler for the next 5-10 years...I think we trade down this year.

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Let's think not lol

 

[Finito]

bro, you just said FIND ME A BIG ATHLETIC GUY LIKE SIMMONS ILL WAIT

and I found one instantly from four years ago.

you never said anything about the quality of their play/instincts/alignment whatever

like I said little bit of sense

 

[Stout]

Do not, do not, do NOT trade out of the top 10, for crying out loud. I know Keim likes to THINK he's the smartest guy in the league and likes to get cute, but he's certainly not even close, and I pray he doesn't try to get cute again.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I think Keim is about to get very..... Keimy.

 

[Solar7]

I'm not going to say that trading back is a completely bad idea, but it's gotta come with a lot of compensation or be a small move for me to be okay with it. Like if there's a certainty the Jags will give us a third rounder to move back one spot because they want a QB? Alright, fine.

But if we're moving back hoping to squeeze out just a little more value with one of the top defenders on the board, or are scared of being the first ones to take their choice of tackle, I'm gonna be angry. I can see Keim getting obsessed with getting back a 2nd round pick and making a terrible move, though.

 

[HGC]

I think Keim is about to get very..... Keimy.

Chaisson?

 

[Rohinaz]

I'm not going to say that trading back is a completely bad idea, but it's gotta come with a lot of compensation or be a small move for me to be okay with it. Like if there's a certainty the Jags will give us a third rounder to move back one spot because they want a QB? Alright, fine.

But if we're moving back hoping to squeeze out just a little more value with one of the top defenders on the board, or are scared of being the first ones to take their choice of tackle, I'm gonna be angry. I can see Keim getting obsessed with getting back a 2nd round pick and making a terrible move, though.

I would move back if I was him. Plenty of talent in this draft and if you can get a nice haul for more opportunities, do it. Okudah, Henderson, Fulton, all quality cbs. But none are on par with true freshman derek stingley out of LSU.
Simmons is a athletic freak but if you watch the national champ game. He was the best MLB on his team, they guy who got ejected was much more of an impact player. Chase young was an absolute non factor vs Clemson vs the right and left tackle.

We assumed these guys are the best becuase they are always at the top of the draft. But there are no sure things.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[AZman5103]

It all depends on "tiers".

If you have 5 tier 1 players...and one falls to you at #8 you take him.

If those guys are gone and you have 12 players in tier two, then you can afford to move back and get one.

The thing we dont know is how many players are in each tier. It could be as few as 2-3 guys in a "tier" and in that case you might miss out on a lot by trading down. In this draft their could be 25 guys in Tier 2...and that means trading down becomes the smart move.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Chaisson?

Ezra Cleveland
Josh Jones
Chaisson <-- But I like this kid
Epanessa <--Please god no.
Diggs

 

[Dr. Jones]

If I was to do a top 14. Not MY 14, just who I think will be gone by the 15th pick:
Burrow, Tua, Herbert
Lamb, Jeudy
Wirfs, Wills, Thomas
Okudah, Henderson
Brown, Kinlaw
Simmons
Probably Becton <-- Like Tunsil..... he will probably drop a bit but not a ton.

Those 13 are probably locks to be gone. On the fence but probably outside of top 13 are:
Ruggs, Jefferson
Jones
Chaisson
Love
McKinney
Fulton, Diggs

If we are back at 15...... That's what I see our pool looking like. Not super ugly, but not as enticing either.

 

[Proximo]

Ezra Cleveland
Josh Jones
Chaisson <-- But I like this kid
Epanessa <--Please god no.
Diggs

Chaisson is interesting. Saw an interview with him and he came off very cocky.

I could see him being very good, or a total bust, don't feel like he will have a middle ground.

 

[Proximo]

If I was to do a top 14. Not MY 14, just who I think will be gone by the 15th pick:
Burrow, Tua, Herbert
Lamb, Jeudy
Wirfs, Wills, Thomas
Okudah, Henderson
Brown, Kinlaw
Simmons
Probably Becton <-- Like Tunsil..... he will probably drop a bit but not a ton.

Those 13 are probably locks to be gone. On the fence but probably outside of top 13 are:
Ruggs, Jefferson
Jones
Chaisson
Love
McKinney
Fulton, Diggs

If we are back at 15...... That's what I see our pool looking like. Not super ugly, but not as enticing either.

Yeah, I think I see the top 14 picks the same way - and if that is what is left, I would take Ruggs or Chaisson - probably Ruggs.

 

[Solar7]

I would move back if I was him. Plenty of talent in this draft and if you can get a nice haul for more opportunities, do it. Okudah, Henderson, Fulton, all quality cbs. But none are on par with true freshman derek stingley out of LSU.
Simmons is a athletic freak but if you watch the national champ game. He was the best MLB on his team, they guy who got ejected was much more of an impact player. Chase young was an absolute non factor vs Clemson vs the right and left tackle.

We assumed these guys are the best becuase they are always at the top of the draft. But there are no sure things.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Keim has notoriously been a bad drafter. I don't want to move out of the more talent rich areas of the draft for him to have an extra dart throw at the the fringe, or have the guys he targeted snapped out from under him. He's been outmaneuvered before, seemingly.

 

[slanidrac16]

My #1 option is to stay at #8 and take an impact player like Simmons. If he is gone, I am 90% leaning toward trading down IF we can get a 2nd round pick (a 3rd is not worth it unless we are only moving down 1 or 2 spots).

Hopefully, teams will get desperate and compete with each other for the #8 spot but here is the trade value chart:

8th pick is worth 1,400

16th pick (Atlanta) - 1,000. They have a 2nd round pick (#47 worth 430). = 1,430

• 5th round pick is typically in the 30 point range but we don't have one this year (maybe trade next years)?

15th pick (Denver) - 1,050. They have a 2nd round pick (#46 worth 440) - 1,490

• We would probably have to return our 2nd 4th round pick (#131 worth 41) = 1,491

1. If we trade down to 15-16, who would you want/who do you think will be there?
2. Who would you want to pick in 2nd round (@46-47)?

Going by Gil Brandt’s rankings

Ruggs and Madubuike.

 

[Ohcrap75]

I think that the rise of CJ Henderson as the clear two CB for many teams will make our pick a valuable trade spot. Jacksonville has a glaring need at CB and Atlanta has already been rumored trying to move up for him.

 

[slanidrac16]

Simmons is going to the type of player where an offense is going to have to account for him.

whether he lines up at safety, on a TE, in the middle or off the edge he will be a threat to make a play or allow a teammate to do so.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Yeah, I think I see the top 14 picks the same way - and if that is what is left, I would take Ruggs or Chaisson - probably Ruggs.

I would tend to agree. At 15, the likes of Becton, Ruggs, Chaisson, Henderson or comparable talent make it much more palatable. And I think at least one of the 4 (or better) would be there.

 

[wit3card]

If I was to do a top 14. Not MY 14, just who I think will be gone by the 15th pick:
Burrow, Tua, Herbert
Lamb, Jeudy
Wirfs, Wills, Thomas
Okudah, Henderson
Brown, Kinlaw
Simmons
Probably Becton <-- Like Tunsil..... he will probably drop a bit but not a ton.

Those 13 are probably locks to be gone. On the fence but probably outside of top 13 are:
Ruggs, Jefferson
Jones
Chaisson
Love
McKinney
Fulton, Diggs

If we are back at 15...... That's what I see our pool looking like. Not super ugly, but not as enticing either.

If no player falls, the extra second isn't good enough to make this kind of call.

This guys already have big warts, IMHO already the 3 OT you mentioned have warts.

For me there are 11 players than the 3 OT and then your 9+ Becton in the top 24


But the draft, will have more or less this top 15
Burrow, Tua,Herbert,Love
Lamb, Jeudy
Okudah, Henderson
Young, Brown, Kinlaw
Simmons
Wirfs, Wills, Thomas

maybe somehow someone else can crack that list like Ruggs or McKinney but else, hard to envision it for now.