Lost: Season 3 (Spoilers)

Joe Mama

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Ah-ha!!

From the article link that Fisch posted above:

I think that little tidbit supports my theory--indicating that they aren't one and the same.

Not to steal your thunder, but I thought the one eyed Russian let that cat out of the bag about 5 episodes ago.

Good stuff! The finale is going to be mind blowing.

I think the last 3-4 episodes should each be two hours and run like a miniseries. :)

Tonight's episode should rock. This one is supposed to be all about Ben. About 4-5 weeks ago I had guessed that the final episode would give his back story. I guess I was off by a few weeks.

Joe
 

Russ Smith

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I don't think they had the details worked out that far in advance.

That's an easy work around. We keep hearing time moves slower on the island, Walt has been off the island, so it stands to reason Walt will have aged more than the people on the island?
 

Chaplin

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That's an easy work around. We keep hearing time moves slower on the island, Walt has been off the island, so it stands to reason Walt will have aged more than the people on the island?

You don't know that.

Nobody assumes anything when it comes to this show, EXCEPT that Walt and Michael got safely away from the island. Why is that? Just curious.
 
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Not to steal your thunder, but I thought the one eyed Russian let that cat out of the bag about 5 episodes ago.

I thought the same thing, even before the Russian - I think that there might even be more than just Dharma and Mittleos (sp?)


I think the last 3-4 episodes should each be two hours and run like a miniseries. :)

Joe

Totally Agree! Maybe that's why we get along so well :D
 

Pariah

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Not to steal your thunder, but I thought the one eyed Russian let that cat out of the bag about 5 episodes ago.
A lot of people on this board didn't believe his story (and why should they--a lot of it has proven to be lies).

And, to drill down a little bit more, I think those two opposing forces are still at work. Desmond is a pawn of the Dahrma Initiative, specifically, the monk and the woman from the jewelry store.
 
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Russ Smith

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You don't know that.

Nobody assumes anything when it comes to this show, EXCEPT that Walt and Michael got safely away from the island. Why is that? Just curious.

I'm not assuming anything I'm just saying if the writers want to get around Walt looking older, that's the easy way out.
 

Louis

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You don't know that.

Nobody assumes anything when it comes to this show, EXCEPT that Walt and Michael got safely away from the island. Why is that? Just curious.

I'm not sure if it has already been asked...

But if Walt and Michael got off the island safely and returned home, why would there still be people who think that everybody on Ocean 815 died?
 

FischerKing

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Ah-ha!!

From the article link that Fisch posted above:

I think that little tidbit supports my theory--indicating that they aren't one and the same.

unless i missed a memo (could have gotten LOST) i never thought that dharma and the others were the same. i think they have even said as much - if not explicitly, then they have definitely implied it.

shawn
 

FischerKing

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I'm not sure if it has already been asked...

But if Walt and Michael got off the island safely and returned home, why would there still be people who think that everybody on Ocean 815 died?

because while they may have gotten off the island doesn't mean they ever got home.

shawn
 

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FischerKing

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Based on this post can you see how I might have thought otherwise?

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1347236&postcount=1018

not really - must be my blind-spot acting up again. :D

my theory about the Others and Dharma is that they are not one-and-the-same, but that they are two distinct entities. now, whatever their relationship to one another might be - whether it is tenuous or tenable - i think there is some connection between them - i just am not clear on they function together, if they do at all. i was under the impression that if they ever had an amicable relationship in the past, that it is no longer the case now.

shawn
 

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That and didn't Ben tell them not to tell anyone?

I believe that was part of the "deal", however once I was back home I would have a serious problem keeping it to myself so I wonder if Mike could....he was not privy to the Others ability to reach out and touch the "real" world. So once he was home what would he have to fear?

I think they never made it home, they have just been sailing around in circles. Didn't Desmond say something similar when he returned to the island with his sailboat?
 

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Ok, so I found the following theory on another message board about LOST. I also watch the show and found it interesting so here it is. Sorry that it's so LOOOONG!!

______________________________________

After looking over the timeline over at Lostpedia, I've come up with a timeline of events laced with my theory(theories) of what happened on the island. This is an evolving theory that I have yet to finish completely but wanted to throw out there. I've borrowed some explanations of events from Lostpedia(cut and pasted into mine to save time). You'll have to excuse the grammar structure. Word doesn't cut and paste to vBulletin very well.:doh:

1970
• The DHARMA Initiative is created (according to the Swan Orientation Film) by Gerald and Karen DeGroot and funded by Alvar Hanso and the Hanso Foundation. DHARMA stands for Department of Heuristics(trial and error) And Research on Material Applications. From the Sri Lanka video(Lost ARG), Thomas Mittlewerk(President of Hanso Foundation) says DHARMA was created to “use scientific research to change any one of the core values of the Valenzetti Equation in order to change the course of the human race.”

1970s
• The Swan Station and other stations built...theory:...built by Charles Widmore/Widmore Construction. In the Charley-centric episode(Fire + Water) about his band, we see a "Widmore Construction" sign in the background on the Battersea Power Station.
• "An Incident" occurred. Marvin Candle from Orientation video: “Not long after the experiments began, however, there was... an 'incident'... and since that time, the following protocol has been observed: (That?) every 108 minutes, the button must be pushed.” ("Orientation") The button seems to release the buildup of magnetism “underneath” the Swan. There is a failsafe that Desmond uses to “blow the dam” holding the magnetism in “Live Together Die Alone”. Desmond’s “blowing that magnetism dam” may have caused the electromagnetic pulse that destroyed the underwater sonar array making it so the submarine will not be able to navigate back to the island ever again.

1975
• The Sri Lanka Video, featuring Alvar Hanso is made which explains indepth what the DHARMA Initiative is. (The Lost Experience)

1980
• The orientation films for the Swan and the Pearl are produced. ("Orientation")

1981
• December 7th – “H.G. (Hanso Group?) Delegation inspection” of The Swan Station. (recorded on blast door map). ("Lockdown")

1984
• October 28th – "Suspected shutdown date" (recorded on upper right of the blast door map).("Lockdown") . Of what? Who knows.

1985
• “AH/MDG incident” as mentioned twice on blast door map. ("Lockdown")
1)”from following AH/MDG incident”(upper left)
2)”caduceus station believed to have been abandoned due to AH/MDG incident of 1985” “or” “possible catastrophic malfunction of Cerberus system” (upper left)

Theory of what the “AH/MDG incident” was:
1)Alver Hanso and M. DeGroot(offspring of Gerald and Karen DeGroot or sibling of Gerald DeGroot) feud and split into 2 separate factions: the DHARMA side and the “Hostiles”/”Others” side. Jacob(see below) is a leader of The Hostiles. This fued leads to the “purge”(see below).
2)Update 4/18: After watching the last 2 episodes, I've come up with another theory. "Mittelos Bioscience" is the company(most likely headed by Thomas Mittlewerk(President of Hanso Foundation)) that Julliette, Ben, Ethan, and Dr. Alpert work for. We've all seen they are Others now. The "M" in "AH/MDG" incident could be in reference to "Mittelos"/"Mittelwerk." A feud between Alvar Hanso and Mittelwerk/Mittelos Bioscience and the DeGroots? Again, led to Purge.
AND/OR
3)Some sort of virus released.
A)Most likely from the The Staff/Caduceus Station. ”caduceus station believed to have been abandoned due to AH/MDG incidentof 1985” hence why the word “QUARENTINE” was not painted on the inside of its hatch door like it was on the Swan’s hatch and The Arrow hatch.
B)Danielle Rousseau’s version of The Sickness: "It was them. They were the carriers. The Others.". She believes that the other members of the team contracted the sickness from the Others. She later claimed that at least up to the time she had met Sayid, she had never actually seen one of the Others but heard the whispers.
After returning to the shelter, some of the team continued to search for the meaning of the numbers while they waited for rescue. This is likely the partial source for what is known as Rousseau's map. But then she says the sickness came. She says the sickness took them one after the other. She eventually killed Robert(her lover) who she claimed was sick by first removing the firing pin from his gun and engaging him in a confrontation where she shot him dead.
Rousseau explained her motivations for killing the other members of the team as follows: "I had no choice. They were already lost. What would have happened if we were rescued? I couldn't let that happen. I won't."
C)When Sayid asks Fenry Gale(Ben) about his wife in “One of Them”: “She got sick.” “It started as a fever. After 2 days, she was delirious. Then she died.” Maybe Fenry was telling a partial truth.
D)Updated 4/18-The Sickness has something to do with pregnancy as well.

(*Theory*)Sometime b/w 1985 & 1987(Rousseau) OR b/w 1993 & Present(Mikhail)
• The Purge occurs. When Sayid asks Mikhail what happened to the DHARMA Initiative: “They’re(DHARMA) all dead of course. They foolishly initiated a war against the hostiles. A ‘purge’ they called it.”

Theory: The purge occurred b/w 1985 and 1987. I tend to believe Roussuea’s account more due to Alexandra’s age.

Sayid asks Mikhail who the hostiles are. Mikhail: “I do not know. But they were here for a long time before we were. A very long time.” This is when Mikhail was saying he was part of the DHARMA Initiative. In reality, he was a hostile. He later revealed that he was in fact a hostile and not DHARMA but said everything else he had said was true.

Jacob - aka "He" & "Him." Most likely leader of The Others/The Hostiles
Updated 4/18 Theory: Could be Jacob Vanderfield(member of the Board of Directors of the Hanso Foundation along with Thomas Mittelwerk). Jacob Vanderfield and Thomas Mittelwerk/Mittelos BioScience executed a coup and took over the island.
A)Fenry Gale(Ben) said when Sayid is interrogating him: “If I told you about them(The Others), you have no idea what He’ll do….He’ll kill me!..<Sayid pulls a gun on him>..You can’t do this! I am not a bad person!”
B)Room 23: “God loves you as He loved Jacob.”
C)Mikhail: “The man who brought me here. Who brought all of my people here. He’s a magnificent man.”

The List - Apparently only “good people” make “the list.” From past conversations, it’s also apparent that Jacob makes “the list.”
A)Danny: “Shepherd wasn't even on Jacob's list."
B)Kid’s kidnapping: Ana Lucia kills one of the assailants and finds out the assailant has a list of the children
C)Goodwin admits he killed Nathan, and confirms that the children are still alive, saying that they are "better off". He also says that those taken were "good people" and that Nathan was not on the list because he was a "bad person".

Quote:
Ana-Lucia: Did he see you out there? Is that why you pretended to be one of us? You ran out of the jungle 10 minutes after the crash, you weren't wet. You were never even in the ocean. Where are they... your friends? Nathan... what did you...
Goodwin: If you had cut off his finger and he still told you he was on the plane, I think maybe you would have started to believe you had the wrong guy.
Ana-Lucia: Did you kill him?
Goodwin: Nathan was not a good person. That's why he wasn't on the list.
Ana-Lucia: What about the kids? Did you kill them, too?
Goodwin: Children are fine. They're better off now.


D)Mikhail <to Kate>: ”You are not capable of understanding..(Kate: And why am I not capable?)…because you are not on the list…(K:What list?)…(Mikhail’s speech about the “magnificent” man above)…I will try to make this as simple as I can. You are not on the list because you are flawed.<Kate> <Locke>Because you are angry. <Rousseau>And weak. <Sayid>And frightened.”

1987
• Hanso Foundation funding of the DHARMA Initiative ends, as per the Hugh McIntyre interview on Jimmy Kimmel. (The Lost Experience)
Theory: The DHARMA Initiative realizes they’ve lost control of the island and stop “funding” it.
Theory: The island radio tower’s transmission is unencrypted either accidentally or by someone intentionally so the whole world can hear the numbers transmission.

1988
• Sam Toomey and Leonard Sims(where Hurley got the numbers) hear the Numbers being broadcast without encryption while stationed in the South Pacific. ("Dave")
• Danielle Rousseau and her crew run aground on the Island after hearing the Numbers transmission. ("Solitary")
• Danielle is trapped at a location near the Black Rock by a "he" or "it" who has "killed them all".("Pilot, Part 2")
• Danielle replaces the Numbers broadcast with a repeating transmission in French. ("Pilot, Part 2")
• All of the science crew are killed by Danielle. ("Solitary")
• Alexandra Rousseau is born and taken by the Others a week later. ("Solitary")
Rousseau claims that after her team was all dead, she went back to the radio tower and changed the unencrypted transmission of the numbers to:

Quote:
Iteration 17294530 : "If anybody can hear this, they are dead. Please help us. I'll try to make it to the Black Rock. It [or he] killed them. It [or he] killed them all."
Iteration 17294531 : "It [or he] is outside. It [or he] is outside and Brennan took the keys. Please help us. They are dead. They are all dead. Help us. They are dead."
Iteration 17294532 : "It [or he] is outside. It [or he] is outside and Brennan took the keys. Please help us. They are dead. They are all dead. Help us. They are dead."
Iteration 17294533 : "They are all dead. Help us. They are dead. If anybody can hear this --"
Iteration 17294534 : "It [or he] is outside. Please help us. Please help us !"
Iteration 17294535 : "If anybody can hear this, I'll try to make it to the Black Rock. Please help us ! They are all dead. They are dead. It [or he] killed them. It [or he] killed them all. I'll try to make it to the Black Rock."

Theory: The above transmission leads me to believe that Rousseau works for DHARMA. Two possibilities could explain how she’s on the island:
1)After it was suspected that the Hostiles had taken over, she and her crew came to the island as a DHARMA surveillance team under the guise of a lost science expedition team. Her baby was taken and her team was killed by Jacob and The Hostiles.
2)She was always on the island. She is one of the last survivors of DHARMA.
Either way, After The Hostiles had indeed taken over and defeated DHARMA, she changed the transmission to try and get word back to DHARMA headquarters off island.
Updated 4/25/07: I thought of another reason I think Rousseau works for DHARMA. In the episode that aired 4/18 when Desmond is taking Charley, Jin, and Hurley "camping," Desmond asks Hurley to show him the cable leading into the jungle. Hurley says, "Here it is...just one thing. Last time I followed this wire into the jungle, I almost got ka-bobbed by one of Rousseua's spiky death-trap things." I think Rousseau is protecting/defending a beacon or some sort of locater that can be used to find the island from "off-island." She's defending it from the Others/Hostiles/Jacob so they can't destroy it and stop a rescue. And the helicopter crashed right off shore of where the cable goes into the water.

1991
• Sayid captured in Persian Gulf War circa 1991. Meets Kelvin Joe Inman(U.S. government spook)("One of Them")

B/W 1991 and 2001
Kelvin Joe Inman joined the DHARMA Initiative . Author of some of the Blast Door Map. Radzinsky was the previous author of the blast door map until committing suicide(so says Inman).
Blast door map(lower right): “activity unsuitable for DIHG”(DHARMA Initiative Hanso Group?)
The fact that it’s referred to as “DIHG” could mean the map author doesn’t have any affiliation. Could be Radzinsky before Inman took over authorship.

It is also interesting to note that someone wrote “caduceus station believed to have been abandoned due to AH/MDG incident of 1985.” A member of DHARMA would most likely know that that particular station was called The Staff.
Theory: Since Inman was in Iraq after when I think the "Purge" occurred, I think Inman actually works for DHARMA too. He was tasked with replacing Radzinsky to keep pushing the button "to save the world."

1993
• Mikhail Bakunin claims to have arrived at the island. (11 years before "Enter 77")
He also said, “I was recruited when I was 24.” Which would make him 35. Mikhail looks older than 35.


“4-8-00" & "8-15-01" & "1-6-03” Dates are noted below “system wide failure of Dharmatel Intranet” and next to “complete shutdown in effect”. Could be related to either.(lower middle of Blast Door Map)


September 2004
• While honeymooning in Australia, Bernard takes Rose to see Isaac of Uluru, a faith healer. After attempting to heal her, Isaac admitted he couldn't, as the location they were in wasn't "the right place". Telling her that she can still be healed.
Dialog:

Quote:
Rose: So, uh... how does this work? I sit here and you chant or uh... pray, or what?
Isaac: There are certain places with great energy... spots on the Earth like the one we're above now. Perhaps this energy is geological... magnetic. Or perhaps it's something else. And when possible I harness this energy and give it to others. May I? [He puts his hands near Rose's face and closes his eyes then suddenly opens them looking disturbed]
Rose: What? What, what is it?
Isaac: I'm sorry. I can't do anything for you, Rose.
Rose: I didn't expect you to.
Isaac: It's not that you can't be healed. Like I said, there's different energies. This is not the right place for you.
Rose: Where is the right place?
Isaac: I wish I knew……

Theory: “The right place” Isaac speaks of is the island.
I'll also add that Mikhail has come back to life after Locke threw him through the sonic fence. Have other's come back? Boone? Ethan? Etc...?

September 22nd
• 13:00 GMT - Eight hours after takeoff, Flight 815 nears the Island and encounters turbulence induced from the electromagnetic energy underneath the Swan overflowing due to the system failure. This eventually causes the plane to break up over the Island. This is roughly 03:00 local time on the morning of September 22, since the plane has crossed the International Date Line. This timeline does not correspond well with the daylight at the time of the crash or the time stamp in the log printout.("Exodus: Part 1")


My theory of what the "newb" pilot chick on the island is talking about when she says that flight 815's wreckage had been found with no survivors:
Updated 4/28: Theory: At the end of "D.O.C."(4/25), Naomi the injured pilot chick who fell from the sky said the wreckage of flight 815 had been found and there were no survivors. I theorize that the plane wreckage was planted by either DHARMA or Mittelos Bioscience to quell any further search for the plane. The plane wreckage is of course on the island and they still want the island to be kept secret. Best way to stop a search is to produce the "wreckage." They "reproduced" Oceanic flight 815 and crashed it. That's the wreckage that Naomi and the outside world found. Not the original Flight 815.
 

Joe Mama

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Becky (Joe Mama's Sista) says tonight's episode is incredible. I think she said she might not be able to sleep tonight.
 
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