Lost - The Final Season (Spoilers)

[Chaplin]

Fan-frikkin-tastic!

 

[Gaddabout]

Lacked emotional punch for me, but if you were waiting for some revelations, this was the one to watch.

Absolutely love the first-chapter-of-Job dynamic they've set up between Jacob and MIB. What a great way to go out. That's a great note to play, and you can play it over and over again.

 

[chickenhead]

Great episode for Richard's character (and great performance by Nestor)!

Not as many revelations here as I think the episode implied, which I think is something the show has become really good at--and keeps us coming back. We're really satisfied during the show but then left wanting more.

For instance, we know more about MiB, but then, do we? He says Jacob stole his body: does this mean MiB formerly looked like Jacob does now? Probably not, but unconfirmed. Does it mean that the form he takes now looks like himself, but is not a real body (just the black smoke taking its form)? Does it mean that the MiB we see is someone else's form he's taken, the way he's taken Locke's now? Who is his crazy mother? Why does he give Ricardo the same instructions to kill Jacob that Dogen later gives Sayid to kill him?

 

[chickenhead]

Also, it seemed to me that Jacob clearly stated the end game when he said that he brings people to the island to prove MiB wrong about humans being taken over by their evil natures, but that it's all meaningless if he steps in directly. [This has all been theorized before, esp. after last season's finale, but it was interesting to here it made so explicit]. So basically, one of the remaining humans or a combination of them have to prove MiB wrong, but how? I assume the candidacy is something different: for replacing Jacob and an extending of the current situation.

If Hurley's heart of gold is the difference-maker, I will vomit.

 

[CaptTurbo]

Also, it seemed to me that Jacob clearly stated the end game when he said that he brings people to the island to prove MiB wrong about humans being taken over by their evil natures, but that it's all meaningless if he steps in directly. [This has all been theorized before, esp. after last season's finale, but it was interesting to here it made so explicit]. So basically, one of the remaining humans or a combination of them have to prove MiB wrong, but how? I assume the candidacy is something different: for replacing Jacob and an extending of the current situation.

If Hurley's heart of gold is the difference-maker, I will vomit.

There have been a hundred example of people risking themselves for others. Not sure how Jacobs point hasnt been proven long ago.

 

[Russ Smith]

I got a little skittish when he said the secret was we're all dead and this is hell and he's the devil because of course about half the country had that "theory" in the first season and we were told emphatically they were not dead and they were not in hell. So I really got nervous that the show had chickened out and taken the easy way but then it became clear that's what MIB told Richard but it doesn't mean that's the truth.

very good episode, it was a little predictable in that you could essentially see what would come next, smoke monster will save him, MIB will let him go etc the only question was who would make it so he never got older Jacob or MIB and even that seemed pretty obvious. But it was a great episode, lots of ways they can go now but if they do wind up saying they're in hell they would get killed in the popular media for denying for so long that was the end game so I think we can be pretty sure that is NOT the answer.

 

[chickenhead]

There have been a hundred example of people risking themselves for others. Not sure how Jacobs point hasnt been proven long ago.

That's why I wonder how it supposed to be "proved," because a single act of self-sacrifice doesn't do it. For instance, does any single act of heroism and sacrifice by Sayid make up for his capabilities as a killer and torturer in a comment on human nature? Clearly it can't be something like that.

 

[chickenhead]

I got a little skittish when he said the secret was we're all dead and this is hell and he's the devil because of course about half the country had that "theory" in the first season and we were told emphatically they were not dead and they were not in hell. So I really got nervous that the show had chickened out and taken the easy way but then it became clear that's what MIB told Richard but it doesn't mean that's the truth.

very good episode, it was a little predictable in that you could essentially see what would come next, smoke monster will save him, MIB will let him go etc the only question was who would make it so he never got older Jacob or MIB and even that seemed pretty obvious. But it was a great episode, lots of ways they can go now but if they do wind up saying they're in hell they would get killed in the popular media for denying for so long that was the end game so I think we can be pretty sure that is NOT the answer.

I was always more willing to buy people's theories of purgatory rather than hell, especially after last night when Jacob explained that the island is the cork in the bottle (and the wine was hell/evil/malevolence). But that would still mean they're all dead in the popular conception of purgatory.

But if they were dead, then the Oceanic Six were all dead when they went back to LA, which would mean it's not "just" the island that's purgatory or hell.

 

[Chaplin]

Could it be that the electromagnetic anomaly that was found in season 2 is a small gateway to that "hell" or purgatory they are talking about? Nothing good really comes from tapping into it (the plane crash, the island sinking, etc.).

If you look at the island as a LITERAL cork in a bottle, that theory makes a bit of strange sense. The electromagnetism is actually the "wine" trying to get to the surface. If the MIB is let off the island, is Jacob saying that it would be even more devastating?

 

[chickenhead]

That, sir, is a very interesting thought. Words like hell, the devil, heaven, etc. have largely metaphorical meanings, and it would be interesting if the show is playing around with how they would be expressed literally and contextually.

 

[Gaddabout]

Anyone want to own a piece of Lost history?

http://www.profilesinhistory.com/lost-auction-preview/lost-auction-preview

 

[Gaddabout]

BTW, Alpert has been set up as a Christ figure. It was actually a little heavy handed. The passage of the Bible he was reading while in prison was Luke 4, which is the story of Jesus' journey into the wilderness for 40 days, his hunger, his temptation, and ultimately his rejection of the devil when he embraces his destiny -- ministry that leads to a sacrificial death.

Pretty certain it was on purpose and Alpert's ultimate mission from Jacob is to give his life to defeat the MIB.

 

[Chaplin]

BTW, Alpert has been set up as a Christ figure. It was actually a little heavy handed. The passage of the Bible he was reading while in prison was Luke 4, which is the story of Jesus' journey into the wilderness for 40 days, his hunger, his temptation, and ultimately his rejection of the devil when he embraces his destiny -- ministry that leads to a sacrificial death.

Pretty certain it was on purpose and Alpert's ultimate mission from Jacob is to give his life to defeat the MIB.

You don't really like this season, do you Gad? I can't remember you saying anything positive about it in recent weeks.

 

[Gaddabout]

You don't really like this season, do you Gad? I can't remember you saying anything positive about it in recent weeks.

I wouldn't say that. The Ben episode is one of my favorites of the entire series. The other episodes have lacked the emotional pull I'm used to, but I am enjoying the mythological reveals. Love the Jacob/MIB dynamic. Can't wait for that to unfold.

 

[Pariah]

I thought this week was great, too.

Interesting if for no other reason then it indicated that the timeline they're in didn't just change AFTER the Oceanic flight didn't crash on the island--the events in that timeline can be completely different leading up to it, too. Sawyer's life is 100% different--and was before he even got on the plane leaving Sydney to LA.

 

[chickenhead]

I think Richard as a Christ figure is a little heavy-handed as well. If they're going Biblical it's easier to buy him as another prophet from the OT: a representative and one who must make a sacrifice (like Abraham, say) or become a martyr. But not one who is divine by nature.

And good point about the timeline Pariah, because that had been throwing me off: for instance, I was wondering Sawyer had still killed Duckett in Australia.

 

[Chaplin]

The question is, did the time before the plane actually exist for the characters in the flash-sideways? Does that timeline start just as any other, or did it start when they got on the plane (i.e. they were "transported" there by Jacob and/or the MIB after whatever happened on the island in 2007).

 

[Pariah]

The question is, did the time before the plane actually exist for the characters in the flash-sideways? Does that timeline start just as any other, or did it start when they got on the plane (i.e. they were "transported" there by Jacob and/or the MIB after whatever happened on the island in 2007).

My brain hurts.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Griffin]

The question is, did the time before the plane actually exist for the characters in the flash-sideways? Does that timeline start just as any other, or did it start when they got on the plane (i.e. they were "transported" there by Jacob and/or the MIB after whatever happened on the island in 2007).

I always assumed that the flash-sideways timeline would have started at the moment that the explosion took place, destroying what would have become the hatch. That's where the reality split into one where the explosion didn't happen and one where it did. Or am I missing something? Why would it start at the plane?

 

[Gaddabout]

I always assumed that the flash-sideways timeline would have started at the moment that the explosion took place, destroying what would have become the hatch. That's where the reality split into one where the explosion didn't happen and one where it did. Or am I missing something? Why would it start at the plane?

That was my assumption, as well. The first flash sideways scene is with Flight 815 flying over the ocean and the last shot is one of the island under water.

 

[Chaplin]

I always assumed that the flash-sideways timeline would have started at the moment that the explosion took place, destroying what would have become the hatch. That's where the reality split into one where the explosion didn't happen and one where it did. Or am I missing something? Why would it start at the plane?

That was the question I was asking.

There is no proof anywhere that the flash-sideways started in 1977. All we've seen is 2004.

 

[Cheesebeef]

That was the question I was asking.

There is no proof anywhere that the flash-sideways started in 1977. All we've seen is 2004.

i think the fact that everyone's lives are DRASTICALLY different in the new flash sideways is overwhelming proof that that flash-sideways started back in 1977 and had a trickle down effect... the bomb going off creating a butterfly effect that changed everything we had seen before in flashbacks. I mean, think about just Hurley who's life is COMPLETELY different. I think it would be pretty tough to argue otherwise.

 

[Chaplin]

i think the fact that everyone's lives are DRASTICALLY different in the new flash sideways is overwhelming proof that that flash-sideways started back in 1977 and had a trickle down effect... the bomb going off creating a butterfly effect that changed everything we had seen before in flashbacks. I mean, think about just Hurley who's life is COMPLETELY different. I think it would be pretty tough to argue otherwise.

Really? Considering the "power" that Jacob and the MIB possess, why is it so unbelievable that the characters' histories in 2004 are fabricated? With this show, how can you say that? The island friggin' MOVED for heaven's sake!

And what "overwhelming proof" is there? All we've seen is the island at the bottom of the ocean. And there's nothing that says it's there because of the explosion.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Really? Considering the "power" that Jacob and the MIB possess, why is it so unbelievable that the characters' histories in 2004 are fabricated?

I don't even know what this means. Do you believe that they're lives were exactly the same but on the flight somehow it changed? Not sure how that makes any sense, nor why the writers would do that. What do you mean their histories are fabricated?

And what "overwhelming proof" is there? All we've seen is the island at the bottom of the ocean.

really? I think every flash-sideways is overwhelming proof that their lives and probably everyone in the world had their lives altered due to the explosion because of the butterfly effect. I mean... I really don't get what you mean by fabricated. Maybe an explanation of that will bridge the gap here because I can't figure out what you're talking about.

And there's nothing that says it's there because of the explosion.

except the fact that show ended last year with an explosion and began with the island under water. Look, these writers love their misdirects but sometimes I think people over-think what's going on in this show.

 

[Gaddabout]

I don't even know what this means. Do you believe that they're lives were exactly the same but on the flight somehow it changed? Not sure how that makes any sense, nor why the writers would do that. What do you mean their histories are fabricated?

We know that to not be 100 percent true.

Hurley's life was already different on the plane. He owned a chain of restaurants (in the previously timeline a meteor blew up his first store) and he considered himself to be lucky. Sawyer was a cop, not a con man, although he may or may not have still killed a man in Sydney.

However, Rose still had cancer, Charlie was still a heroin addict, Kate was still a fugitive, and Jack's father still died for (apparently) the same reasons. OTOH, Jack didn't seem to have the demons he has in the reality we're more familiar with.

What's interesting to me (and I can't remember if someone here pointed it out or not) is how the current island groups are shaping up. The people struggling in the Flash-Sideways are currently with Flocke.