Lost - The Final Season (Spoilers)

[Lefty]

I think Jacob is inhabiting Sayid's body.

 

[BirdMan21]

I think Jacob is inhabiting Sayid's body.

Thats exactly what I thought when he woke up...keep the good vs evil battle going

 

[chickenhead]

Makes sense, since Jacob was the one who had Hurley take Sayid to the temple.

**I'm not sure what should be hidden as a spoiler, but I assume anything in tonight's episode is fair game to discuss, right?**

The one question I have is "when" they are at the temple. I can't remember if the recap episode said that Sun and Cap'n Frank were in 2007 or present-day, but it was one or the other. Given that the temple is not in ruins, it would seem to suggest that Jack, Sawyer, Hurley, Kate, Miles, Jin, and Sayid are in the past - but Richard sees the fireworks when he's with Sun and Frank. Unless those are different fireworks in a different timeline, just jaxtaposed as scenes.

I don't know exactly what Juliet means when she says "It worked" to Miles. Even though she was going batty right before she died just like Charlotte did. Unless she just meant that the new timeline where the plane lands safely at LAX is in place. It's interesting, but at present has only entertainment value in the fact that no one knows each other. The island is underwater (because of the bomb?), and everyone seems to be going back to their troubled lives, but it does seem like everyone has learned something--though that may be the viewer projecting their previous character arcs onto them. The real question is, are these just alternate universes, or does one have primacy?

 

[Gaddabout]

At the end of the season I think the writers want us to see all of us on the island, no one really has it better, everyone has their demons, and the only real path to enlightenment is to let it go and simply enjoy the time we have with each other.

That's the filter I'm using to interpret this season and where I see the story arcs going in LA. That's what I've taken from the last episode of Season 5 and this first episode of Season 6.

And Jack has been redeemed as an interesting character. The more he plays the role of the hero, the more he screws it up for everyone. Hero complex is a fascinating character flaw. He's now the official plot fulcrum, as he should be, I suppose. I feared they had run out of ways to express his daddy issues, but this episode has some dazzling writing from beginning to end. It was crisp dialogue and editing, too.

This is the first time post-Season 1 that I really felt drawn into the characters and the story like Season1. What a promising debut. I'm back on board!

 

[Chaplin]

Makes sense, since Jacob was the one who had Hurley take Sayid to the temple.

**I'm not sure what should be hidden as a spoiler, but I assume anything in tonight's episode is fair game to discuss, right?**

The one question I have is "when" they are at the temple. I can't remember if the recap episode said that Sun and Cap'n Frank were in 2007 or present-day, but it was one or the other. Given that the temple is not in ruins, it would seem to suggest that Jack, Sawyer, Hurley, Kate, Miles, Jin, and Sayid are in the past - but Richard sees the fireworks when he's with Sun and Frank. Unless those are different fireworks in a different timeline, just jaxtaposed as scenes.

There is no more time travel, they are all in the same time, 2007. (on the island, that is) That is plainly said when dead Jacob tells Hurley that he died an hour earlier.

The plane stuff are actually flashbacks, to September 22nd, 2004.

WHAT a premiere. Leaves you breathless. Even the recap episode was fascinating.

 

[Shane]

I was actually kind of let down by the premier. But I'm still excited for the season.

 

[CaptTurbo]

I cant figure out why I still tune this in.

 

[Jersey Girl]

I think Jacob is inhabiting Sayid's body.

I think that makes sense.

So, who is inhabiting Locke's body? Is it the guy that was on the beach with Jacob in the beginning? I really should have spent more time reviewing last season.

WHAT a premiere. Leaves you breathless. Even the recap episode was fascinating.

I was surprised at how much the recap episode covered. Not too bad.

 

[chickenhead]

There is no more time travel, they are all in the same time, 2007. (on the island, that is) That is plainly said when dead Jacob tells Hurley that he died an hour earlier.

The plane stuff are actually flashbacks, to September 22nd, 2004.

WHAT a premiere. Leaves you breathless. Even the recap episode was fascinating.

Makes sense. After I shut down my computer last night it occurred to me that we'd never actually seen anyone go "into" the temple--just down below the wall where the French dude was dragged and where the smoke monster appeared is Alex, IIRC. So it was not necessarily in ruins as I suggested above. But honestly, the fact that these guys at the temple were on the island the whole time is a pretty interesting and unsettling development. Based on Cindy the stewardess' reappearance they are just other "others" that we don't know, but still. I wasn't expecting new characters to be introduced on the island at this point.

It also amuses me that Adams from Deadwood is Jacob's nemesis, and Saul from Deadwood is the hippie-looking guy who translates for Dogan.

 

[Chaplin]

I think that makes sense.

So, who is inhabiting Locke's body? Is it the guy that was on the beach with Jacob in the beginning? I really should have spent more time reviewing last season.

Yes. The "new Locke" is evil personified while Jacob is good personified. There are VERY religious overtones with this season, with:

New Locke: Satan
Jacob: Jesus
Sayid: Resurrected Jesus
Ben: Judas

 

[chickenhead]

I really wonder how "Old Locke" is going to come into play. I don't believe that with his connection to the island, it won't happen. He is alive, after all, in the other storyline. The island may be underwater and it may be 2004, but that doesn't mean that three years later he won't have found a way back.

Edit: now that I think about it, was Locke just lying to Boone when he described his walkabout?

 

[Gaddabout]

I really wonder how "Old Locke" is going to come into play. I don't believe that with his connection to the island, it won't happen. He is alive, after all, in the other storyline. The island may be underwater and it may be 2004, but that doesn't mean that three years later he won't have found a way back.

Edit: now that I think about it, was Locke just lying to Boone when he described his walkabout?

Locke's relationship to the island was Jacob. It was Locke's vanity that he lost that relationship to the island and allowed the evil to step into his place.

 

[Chaplin]

Edit: now that I think about it, was Locke just lying to Boone when he described his walkabout?

Yes. Locke was living in a fantasy world before the crash and it's continued on. (fantasy world meaning acting like a colonel when playing the war game, his relationship with the ********* Helen, etc...) I'm not sure old Locke knows how to really live after being tossed from the walkabout.

 

[chickenhead]

Agreed, but darn if America don't love a comeback story.

 

[devilalum]

I really wonder how "Old Locke" is going to come into play.

Whatever "Old Locke" does it will be WRONG!

 

[Russ Smith]

Locke's relationship to the island was Jacob. It was Locke's vanity that he lost that relationship to the island and allowed the evil to step into his place.

I was wondering if maybe it was Jacob's enemy that actually engineered the entire thing leading up to Locke getting to the island so that he could use Locke to kill Jacob? I forget exactly but didn't Richard say something like he'd been to see Locke more than once off the island and still didn't get what was so extraordinary about him?

We know Jacob saw him just after he went out the window but maybe his nemesis had somehow tricked Jacob into thinking Locke was special to the island when he was really just needed by the nemesis? Create the whole idea that Locke is special which ultimately results in Ben trusting the nemesis was Locke when he knew he himself had killed Locke off the island?

 

[TBaslim]

Dang - what a great premiere! I figured it would be a strong one, but did not expect it to be as amazing as it was. The writers either really did figure out a few years ago where all this was going and built toward it, or have done an amazing job in making it up as they have gone along. Predestination vs free will, indeed.

I could have done with fewer replays of Juliet's fall and bomb detonation, but it was still emotional and meaningful in terms of sacrifice for her lover and friends.

The crispness with which they unveiled and moved along everything was most impressive. Anymore and it would be too fast/too light, but instead, it just cooked along with no plot drag. Very expert pacing and storytelling -had to be an attentive vs lazy viewer, but not impossible to keep up with.

I especially liked the montage when they all exit the plane in LAX.

My takeaway was very much 'be careful what you wish for'...each of them wanted so badly to leave the island and then to just make the whole experience go away, but what is left if that happens? They are all back to being flawed characters, that much further from any self-realization or redemption (it seems - may change). Charlie, Locke, Jack, Kate, Sawyer. All back to their past demons and challenges. Very curious if this continues in the 'flash sideways' universe, or if some self-knowledge carries over from the island universe.

I also loved how, both in the pre-premiere recap and in the premiere, they showed just how clearly the Man-in-Black/evil Locke has been manipulating the entire situation in his struggle with Jacob. Ben, in particular, the great manipulator, was played like a fiddle over the last few seasons. Amazing. I'm sure there are more reveals coming on this whole battle between Jacob and the other guy, but am so impressed even without knowing it all.

It is also interesting how the various storytelling techniques (flashbacks, flash forwards, time travel) have served to obfuscate and add to the confusion for the audience of various characters motives and intentions. When considered in a more linear fashion, the dots fall into place much more easily (ie, MIB and Jacob's various chess moves over the last few seasons in their epic struggle).

Finally, how about Terry O'Quinn (Locke) as an actor? What a great gig - he gets to be super evil in one scene, and then play a twist on 'old Locke' in another. Great stuff.

 

[TBaslim]

I was wondering if maybe it was Jacob's enemy that actually engineered the entire thing leading up to Locke getting to the island so that he could use Locke to kill Jacob? I forget exactly but didn't Richard say something like he'd been to see Locke more than once off the island and still didn't get what was so extraordinary about him?

We know Jacob saw him just after he went out the window but maybe his nemesis had somehow tricked Jacob into thinking Locke was special to the island when he was really just needed by the nemesis? Create the whole idea that Locke is special which ultimately results in Ben trusting the nemesis was Locke when he knew he himself had killed Locke off the island?

I think this is the case. Man-In-Black (what the various fansites call Jacob's enemy - or 'FLocke' = Fake Locke - 'Esau' seems to have fallen out of favor) and Jacob have been moving all kinds of pieces on their big Island chess board for a long time.

There are a bunch of assumptions at this point (who was really in Jacob's cabin giving instructions, who is Christian Shepard, etc), but it sure looks like MIB used Locke and Ben's weaknesses to get to Jacob. Jacob, though, appears to have had his own backup plan, which is now in motion.

The open questions are why are they fighting, what is at stake, etc. The writers have said they will only answer questions that 'matter to the main characters', so we'll see if they go there, or leave MIB/Jacob in the 'good vs evil', 'cynicism vs hope', 'predestination vs free will' arena.

 

[Russ Smith]

Was the one hour show before last night new too or a rerun? I was stuck out of town and forced to watch American Idol so we saw only the 2 hour premiere not the show before.

 

[Chaplin]

Was the one hour show before last night new too or a rerun? I was stuck out of town and forced to watch American Idol so we saw only the 2 hour premiere not the show before.

Just a recap.

My crazy theory is that almost everything we have seen so far on this show has been the manipulations of the MIB. Ben and Richard thought that Jacob was telling them what to do for years, but really, it was the MIB. Very similar to Christian mythology in some circles (and especially in popular entertainment), where God (Jacob) sits on the sidelines and does nothing while things happen around him, mostly manipulated by Satan (MIB) (and the day is saved by mere mortals). I submit that Jacob's only real contact with anyone was in all those flashbacks from the finale last season.

Thin theory, I know, but it's something I've thought about.

 

[devilalum]

Dang - what a great premiere! I figured it would be a strong one, but did not expect it to be as amazing as it was. The writers either really did figure out a few years ago where all this was going and built toward it, or have done an amazing job in making it up as they have gone along. Predestination vs free will, indeed.

This is what's amazing to me. Most continuing dramas reach that point where the writers have to reinvent the show because the story line has run its course. Heroes had no idea where they were going after the first season. Lost writers either had a 5-6 season plan or they are masters of making it seem like they did.

 

[devilalum]

Was the one hour show before last night new too or a rerun? I was stuck out of town and forced to watch American Idol so we saw only the 2 hour premiere not the show before.

I just finished watching season 5 last night. Is it worth watching the recap show before I watch the 2 hour season 6 premiere? I have both recorded.

 

[Chaplin]

This is what's amazing to me. Most continuing dramas reach that point where the writers have to reinvent the show because the story line has run its course. Heroes had no idea where they were going after the first season. Lost writers either had a 5-6 season plan or they are masters of making it seem like they did.

Thinking back to the first couple episodes of Season 1, Locke basically explains the state of the show right now when he teaches Walt how to play backgammon.

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[chickenhead]

I think this is the case. Man-In-Black (what the various fansites call Jacob's enemy - or 'FLocke' = Fake Locke - 'Esau' seems to have fallen out of favor) and Jacob have been moving all kinds of pieces on their big Island chess board for a long time.

There are a bunch of assumptions at this point (who was really in Jacob's cabin giving instructions, who is Christian Shepard, etc), but it sure looks like MIB used Locke and Ben's weaknesses to get to Jacob. Jacob, though, appears to have had his own backup plan, which is now in motion.

The open questions are why are they fighting, what is at stake, etc. The writers have said they will only answer questions that 'matter to the main characters', so we'll see if they go there, or leave MIB/Jacob in the 'good vs evil', 'cynicism vs hope', 'predestination vs free will' arena.

And of course we still don't know what they are and why they appear in the forms they do. For example we've seen Jacob in human form touching the lives of main characters, but we've seen the MIB in human form as "himself" only once, in the season 5 finale. He can impersonate others, and appear as the smoke monster (which can take the form of others) but Jacob has appeared only as himself, and can be killed as a mortal. Seems imbalanced at present. Even if he is inhabiting Sayid's body, it's still a real body. New Locke is not Old Locke's body. Why can New Locke not kill Jacob (he needs Ben to do it) but he CAN beat the hell out of Richard? Is Richard on the same plane as Jacob and MIB, while others are not?

 

[Chaplin]

And of course we still don't know what they are and why they appear in the forms they do. For example we've seen Jacob in human form touching the lives of main characters, but we've seen the MIB in human form as "himself" only once, in the season 5 finale.

And the Season 5 premiere.

He can impersonate others, and appear as the smoke monster (which can take the form of others) but Jacob has appeared only as himself, and can be killed as a mortal. Seems imbalanced at present. Even if he is inhabiting Sayid's body, it's still a real body. New Locke is not Old Locke's body. Why can New Locke not kill Jacob (he needs Ben to do it) but he CAN beat the hell out of Richard? Is Richard on the same plane as Jacob and MIB, while others are not?

Did you catch that Richard is probably one of the former slaves from the Black Rock? Don't know his place in this "war", but I liked the idea of Richard being on the ship.