Marbury trade revisited

[Kolo]

If the trade hadn't been made--

Steph/Barbosa
JJ/Penny/Jacobsen
Matrix/Zarko
Amare/Vroman
Voskuhl/White(?)Trybanski
First round pick 2004, probably in the low teens


Because it was made--

Nash/Barbosa
JJ/Q/Jacobsen
Matrix/Zarko
Amare/Vroman
Voskuhl/Lampe/vet. minimum guy (Williams? Traylor?)
Vujanic
~$10 million
Chicago's first rnd pick, maybe 2005
Funds to sign a mid-level guy next year (although with Sarver, they might have been able to do that next year even w/out unloading Penny).

In retrospect, a pretty good trade, in my opinion. We're about even or maybe slightly worse at pg, much stronger at sg and slightly stronger at c. How truly good the trade was in the long run depends on Lampe and Vujanic, but even if Lampe doesn't develop and Vujanic stays in Europe, it was a good trade for Phx.

 

[Espo]

I think the key is the lineup for next season brings excitement for the fans. I dont think that if Steph and Penny were still here that there would be any excitement. We could very easily be a contender in the west this year.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

If the trade hadn't been made--

Steph/Barbosa
JJ/Penny/Jacobsen
Matrix/Zarko
Amare/Vroman
Voskuhl/White(?)Trybanski
First round pick 2004, probably in the low teens


Because it was made--

Nash/Barbosa
JJ/Q/Jacobsen
Matrix/Zarko
Amare/Vroman
Voskuhl/Lampe/vet. minimum guy (Williams? Traylor?)
Vujanic
~$10 million
Chicago's first rnd pick, maybe 2005
Funds to sign a mid-level guy next year (although with Sarver, they might have been able to do that next year even w/out unloading Penny).

In retrospect, a pretty good trade, in my opinion. We're about even or maybe slightly worse at pg, much stronger at sg and slightly stronger at c. How truly good the trade was in the long run depends on Lampe and Vujanic, but even if Lampe doesn't develop and Vujanic stays in Europe, it was a good trade for Phx.

 

[George O'Brien]

Actually this is not just the Marbury trade. We have to include giving up White and the Cleveland pick plus the trade of the first round pick for Vroman and the Chicago pick. None the less, I like the results.

I think Nash is a much better fit on the Suns than Marbury, Q is light years better than Hardaway, and I really like Lampe's potential. The deal also included sending away White, but it certainly looks like he will be replaceable with a veteran minimum guy.

Another piece of the puzzle was the final deal was the decision to trade out of the first round to get Vroman and the Chicago pick. This means that the final tally on this combination of deals won't be complete until the Chicago pick is used or traded, until Vujanic is signed or traded.

There is always an outside chance that Eisley won't be just a dead weight loss. There is a remote chance he might get moved this summer, but it is more likely that his expiring contract could be included in a trade next summer.

 

[newfan101]

Here's the most important part of that deal.

Marbury + Hardaway = around $29 million

Nash + Q = around $14 Million

2 very good players with reasonable contracts versus 2 maxed out players, one of which is below average and over the hill.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

To clear up the format a bit:

Traded:

Marbury
Hardaway
Trybanski
Cleavland first rounder
White
1st round pick


Replaced with:

Nash
Q
Future Chi Pick
Vroman
Lampe
Eisley
Rights to Vujanic



Not a bad trade as it stands. People who complained about the Nash contract in terms of guaranteed money and length often forget Marbury would have made over 20 million a year in his final season. Also, although Marbury is a work horse, he is the one who had several surgeries, not Nash.

Not to mention the great prospect in Lampe, and in theory Vujanic. I accepted it at the time, and I definitely like the results so far.

 

[George O'Brien]

I have no doubt the Suns are a better team than they were before the trade. At this point, I don't know how good they will be, but they will certainly be exciting.

 

[devilalum]

If the trade hadn't been made--

Steph/Barbosa
JJ/Penny/Jacobsen
Matrix/Zarko
Amare/Vroman
Voskuhl/White(?)Trybanski
First round pick 2004, probably in the low teens


Because it was made--

Nash/Barbosa
JJ/Q/Jacobsen
Matrix/Zarko
Amare/Vroman
Voskuhl/Lampe/vet. minimum guy (Williams? Traylor?)
Vujanic
~$10 million
Chicago's first rnd pick, maybe 2005
Funds to sign a mid-level guy next year (although with Sarver, they might have been able to do that next year even w/out unloading Penny).

In retrospect, a pretty good trade, in my opinion. We're about even or maybe slightly worse at pg, much stronger at sg and slightly stronger at c. How truly good the trade was in the long run depends on Lampe and Vujanic, but even if Lampe doesn't develop and Vujanic stays in Europe, it was a good trade for Phx.

The real stinker you left out of your assessment is EISLEY.

In spite of his contract I think the Suns are a younger, healthier more athletic team.

 

[3rdside]

Devil alum - not happy about chaplin starting his own website? I tend to agree; the egocentric sonofabitch.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Devil alum - not happy about chaplin starting his own website? I tend to agree...

When? Where? This should be funny...

 

[coloradosun]

To clear up the format



Not a bad trade as it stands. People who complained about the Nash contract in terms of guaranteed money and length often forget Marbury would have made over 20 million a year in his final season. Also, although Marbury is a work horse, he is the one who had several surgeries, not Nash.

Not to mention the great prospect in Lampe, and in theory Vujanic. I accepted it at the time, and I definitely like the results so far.

Don't forget the 2 first round picks from the Knicks that were sent to Utah to get rid of Googs.

 

[George O'Brien]

Don't forget the 2 first round picks from the Knicks that were sent to Utah to get rid of Googs.

That's still a sticking point for many of us, but it appears they never wanted more picks for this season. Still, I wish they could have used one to clear the Spurs deal.

 

[Evil Ash]

Devil alum - not happy about chaplin starting his own website? I tend to agree; the egocentric sonofabitch.

When did he start his own site?

Linky?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

To clear up the format a bit:

Traded:

Marbury
Hardaway
Trybanski
Cleavland first rounder
White
1st round pick


Replaced with:

Nash
Q
Future Chi Pick
Vroman
Lampe
Eisley
Rights to Vujanic



Not a bad trade as it stands. People who complained about the Nash contract in terms of guaranteed money and length often forget Marbury would have made over 20 million a year in his final season. Also, although Marbury is a work horse, he is the one who had several surgeries, not Nash.

Not to mention the great prospect in Lampe, and in theory Vujanic. I accepted it at the time, and I definitely like the results so far.

i agree, they took what they had and made a great offseason outta the trade. i was skeptical. and remain so in regards to nash's contract, but overall this team will be MUCH better.

the "great prospect" talk about lampe still confounds me. he really hasn't shown us anything to be THAT excited about. and as far as i'm concerned, vujanic will forever remain a "theory" for the suns.

 

[JerkFace]

the "great prospect" talk about lampe still confounds me. he really hasn't shown us anything to be THAT excited about.

he is only 19 years old.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

he is only 19 years old.

right. his age, his height, and $4 will get you and i a cup of coffee (granted, it gets him hundreds of thousands of dollars . . . .)

what i'm saying is, i just don't think it's right to factor in lampe as "great potential" when considering the trade. right now he's just a big dude with some athleticism that we have NO idea how he'll pan out. the "he's 19" could be used in an argument FOR his potential and AGAINST his potential as far as i'm concerned. right now he's just lampe, benchwarmer extraordinaire!

 

[hafey2]

by that logic, any first round draft pick is nothing "to be THAT excited about"

 

[George O'Brien]

There is a basic "truth" in basketball: centers who have proven themselves but are under 30 are extremely difficult to obtain and the guys who are left are generally overpaid.

Okur does very little and gets a contract starting at $6.7 million. Foyle is a career backup and he gets a deal starting at $6.5 million. Even Mark Blount who has 1/2 of one good season gets a full MLE as did Etan Thomas who was a backup on a team which did not do well.

Centers who are good, young AND have reasonable contracts are simply not going to be traded. Period, end of story. What is left are guys who haven't proven themselves or guys who are over the hill.

If you go into the draft for help, the consensus is that it will take three to four years for most center prospects to become productive. A few #1 or #2 picks beat the odds, but even then most of them take a while. When you look at such projects, what you pay attention to is:

1. Is he big enough to be a real center? Most college guys are too short and most Euro's are too light.

2. Is he athletic enough to be able to move around, or is he just a stiff?

3. Does he have any offensive skills? Guys who have zero offensive skills need to be on a team with a lot of other very good offensive people because they permit other teams to double team off the center.

4. Does the guy work hard? Too many big guys are out of shape and lazy.

Lampe hasn't proven himself, but he is big enough, athletic enough, has offensive skills, and has shown he is willing to work hard. So, while I don't know WHEN he is going to be able to contribute, but I am confident he will eventually.

 

[Gaddabout]

Lampe hasn't proven himself, but he is big enough, athletic enough, has offensive skills, and has shown he is willing to work hard. So, while I don't know WHEN he is going to be able to contribute, but I am confident he will eventually.

If the Lakers can get quality minutes out of Medvedenko, I don't see why the Suns can't do the same with Lampe. They're essentially the same player, and Lampe is a bit taller with slightly better all-around skills.

 

[scotsman13]

lampe is very differant from mev. lampes is already a great deal ahead of mev and is working hard to prove that he can be something. the differance i saw in lampe from the beginning of the RMR to the end were huge just like the differance from the reg. season to the beginning of the RVR. wait on lampe and he will be a big peice to the team.

 

[elindholm]

lampes is already a great deal ahead of mev

No, no homerism there. None at all.

 

[F-Dog]

If Lampe isn't a lot better than Medvedenko within the next couple of years, we've been wasting our breath on him. (Lampe, that is.)

We'll have to wait and see...

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Don't forget the 2 first round picks from the Knicks that were sent to Utah to get rid of Googs.

I left them out because we don't have possesion of them. The move did not create any cap space, or bring in other players, just a purely financial move. Didn't seem relevent to the discussion.

 

[Joe Mama]

I left them out because we don't have possesion of them. The move did not create any cap space, or bring in other players, just a purely financial move. Didn't seem relevent to the discussion.

this is how I see it.

the Suns traded:
Stephon Marbury
Penny Hardaway
Cezar Trybansky

the Suns received:
Howard Eisley
Steve Nash
Quentin Richardson
Lampe
the rights to Vujanic
$16 million in cash ($3 million from New York and $13 million saved by trading, Gugliotta and the draft picks acquired from New York)

Marbury, Hardaway, and Trybansky will make a combined $31 million this season. Eisley, Nash, Richardson, and Lampe will make approximately $22 million. Jahidi White was a totally separate issue.

Joe Mama

 

[newfan101]

Marbury, Hardaway, and Trybansky will make a combined $31 million this season. Eisley, Nash, Richardson, and Lampe will make approximately $33 million. Jahidi White was a totally separate issue.

Joe Mama

This is probably a typo, but it's actually closer to 22 million on the Suns side.