Mavericks at Suns 12-23-14

[AfroSuns]

lol... this post is ridiculous.

keep telling yourself you don't hate Bledsoe.

I think it is more of Love Dragic more...

I do have to agree Stefan it is a ridiculous post. I am a huge Dragic fan but you got to see the humor in the play. Even Dragic was happy for him.

 

[sunsfan88]

This fourth quarter has been a joke. Nothing but Bledsoe (mostly) and Thomas Iso ball. Par for the course. So pathetic.

Yeah, not sure we win this if Dallas isn't playing its 3rd game in 4th night vs a Suns team with 2 days rest and home court advantage.

 

[sunsfan88]

Eric Bledsoe with a monster game. This means that he's gonna probably gonna suck for the next 5 games. Dragic with a very efficient game. Green continued chucking but he finally found rhythm.

I'm glad people can now see why I was bi**ching so much about Alex Len not starting.

Eventually you will all see the point behind me b**cing about TJ Warren not getting playing time over Marcus Morris as well.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Yeah, not sure we win this if Dallas isn't playing its 3rd game in 4th night vs a Suns team with 2 days rest and home court advantage.

I'm not sure we don't blow them out by 50 if we're not playing the first game back at home following an East Coast trip. See, two can play that game.

If you really want to find a way to devalue this win, go for the Rondo factor, it plays better. It really can disrupt a team to try and integrate a key player during the season.

Steve

 

[AzStevenCal]

Eric Bledsoe with a monster game. This means that he's gonna probably gonna suck for the next 5 games. Dragic with a very efficient game. Green continued chucking but he finally found rhythm.

I'm glad people can now see why I was bi**ching so much about Alex Len not starting.

Eventually you will all see the point behind me b**cing about TJ Warren not getting playing time over Marcus Morris as well.

Not in the least. I'm glad people now can see why Jeff worked it the way he did by not rushing Len into the starting lineup. Allowing Alex to gain experience without crushing his confidence has worked wonders for him.

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

He could have hurt Dragic there.

In defense of SirStefan32.

Paul Coro @paulcoro · 10h 10 hours ago

Bledsoe on leveling Dragic for a 10th board & triple-double: "Everybody keeps saying I hurt Gogi. He's going to be out 2 weeks." #SunsVsMavs

Luckily it didn't happen.

https://twitter.com/paulcoro

 

[Mainstreet]

Actually there is more from Paul Coro at the link below from an article at azcentral dated 12-23-14:

Bledsoe had 16 points, 11 assists and 10 rebounds, grabbing the 10th rebound in the final seconds.

"I was exhausted," Bledsoe said. "I was running around the basketball court like a chicken trying to find that last one."

In the final minute, a Charlie Villnaueva 3-pointer came off long and Goran Dragic went up for the rebound only to find a more determined rebounder.

Bledsoe powered it away from Dragic, knocking him to the ground before laughing and helping him up.

Dragic was the only Suns player who did not know Bledsoe was on the verge of a triple-double for four minutes.

"Everybody keeps saying I hurt Gogi," Bledsoe said as Dragic gave him a hard time from across the locker room.

"He's going to be out for like two weeks. I pray that doesn't happen."

Dragic led the Suns with 25 points, including a second-quarter stretch in which he scored 12 of the Suns' 18 points as they pulled ahead for good.

"Goran got rolling and really attacked and made some plays for us," Hornacek said. "That's what we need."

Dragic has led the Suns in scoring for five of the past 11 games after not doing so in the season's first 17 games.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/spor...ix-suns-dallas-mavericks-game-score/20845009/

 

[elindholm]

I'm glad that Bledsoe put together a good game, but his defense in the first quarter was godawful. For some bizarre reason, he kept patrolling the paint like a free safety rather than guard Ellis (Dragic was usually on Rondo) on the perimeter. So someone, usually Ellis, would get easily to the rim, and then a couple of quick passes later, Chandler would have a dunk.

Since Bledsoe's defensive instincts are usually pretty good, I can only assume he was zoning the paint on Hornacek's instruction. But if so, what a peculiar instruction! I'd really like to know who was responsible for Bledsoe's defensive "strategy" early in the game, because not only was it an obvious failure, it should have been recognized as an obviously bad idea without needing to be field-tested.

But, it was good to see Dragic and Bledsoe happy together after the game. That's the most chemistry I've ever seen them share.

 

[SirStefan32]

I'm glad that Bledsoe put together a good game, but his defense in the first quarter was godawful. For some bizarre reason, he kept patrolling the paint like a free safety rather than guard Ellis (Dragic was usually on Rondo) on the perimeter. So someone, usually Ellis, would get easily to the rim, and then a couple of quick passes later, Chandler would have a dunk.

Since Bledsoe's defensive instincts are usually pretty good, I can only assume he was zoning the paint on Hornacek's instruction. But if so, what a peculiar instruction! I'd really like to know who was responsible for Bledsoe's defensive "strategy" early in the game, because not only was it an obvious failure, it should have been recognized as an obviously bad idea without needing to be field-tested.

But, it was good to see Dragic and Bledsoe happy together after the game. That's the most chemistry I've ever seen them share.

I saw them laughing and talking on the bench in the second quarter as well, but I was far happier that they actually played well together. Bledsoe wasn't forcing a whole lot. Of course, that went down the crapper in the second half when Bledsoe turned into Gerald Green, but the first half was awesome. Bledsoe looked like a point guard and Dragic looked like a scoring/ shooting guard.

EDIT:
As far as the "zoning" issue, I noticed that as well, but it's odd to assign that role to your best individual defender. You zone up to hide a defensive weakness, and defense is clearly not Bledsoe's weakness.

 

[marios13]

Bledsoe looked like a point guard and Dragic looked like a scoring/ shooting guard.

It was nice to see them finally relaxed when talking about each other and joking around. I just hope its not Xmas related or for the media ...

 

[Superbone]

I'm not sure we don't blow them out by 50 if we're not playing the first game back at home following an East Coast trip. See, two can play that game.

If you really want to find a way to devalue this win, go for the Rondo factor, it plays better. It really can disrupt a team to try and integrate a key player during the season.

Steve

Not in the least. I'm glad people now can see why Jeff worked it the way he did by not rushing Len into the starting lineup. Allowing Alex to gain experience without crushing his confidence has worked wonders for him.

Steve

+2. You're on fire Steve!

 

[Errntknght]

Not in the least. I'm glad people now can see why Jeff worked it the way he did by not rushing Len into the starting lineup. Allowing Alex to gain experience without crushing his confidence has worked wonders for him.

Steve

We might as well spin it that way - poor Hornacek hasn't looked all that great so far this year. Just think what he's doing for Warren's and Goodwin's confidence by not subjecting them to the pressures of playing at all.

 

[AzStevenCal]

We might as well spin it that way - poor Hornacek hasn't looked all that great so far this year. Just think what he's doing for Warren's and Goodwin's confidence by not subjecting them to the pressures of playing at all.

And it was spin. But flipping it the other way as 88 did is also spin, especially given that it's coming from fans far removed from the action.

Steve

 

[AzStevenCal]

We might as well spin it that way - poor Hornacek hasn't looked all that great so far this year. Just think what he's doing for Warren's and Goodwin's confidence by not subjecting them to the pressures of playing at all.

Unlike you, I've seen nothing to suggest Goodwin deserves playing time. You like his defense, I hate it. If they were playing one on one, I'd like Archie's chances but it's a team game and he's hard on his teammates. I don't know why Warren isn't getting any time but I've heard a comment or two that suggests he's also having trouble adjusting to team defense.

Anyway, other than a few minutes at a time, I think it's a mistake to play someone when he isn't the better choice in the present or the near future. Right now, we don't have the luxury of approaching it in a different way if trying for the playoffs is still the goal.

Steve

 

[sunsfan88]

Not in the least. I'm glad people now can see why Jeff worked it the way he did by not rushing Len into the starting lineup. Allowing Alex to gain experience without crushing his confidence has worked wonders for him.

Steve

The Suns could have won at least 5 more games with Len instead of Plumlee had Hornacek made the move sooner.

We might as well spin it that way - poor Hornacek hasn't looked all that great so far this year. Just think what he's doing for Warren's and Goodwin's confidence by not subjecting them to the pressures of playing at all.

Exactly. Not just Goodwin & Warren but even Ennis has looked pretty good.

I feel bad for Ennis. He could have got drafted by his hometown team Raptors and actually have gotten playing time for one of the best teams in the league instead of being a bench warmer for a mediocre team.

 

[sunsfan88]

I'm not sure we don't blow them out by 50 if we're not playing the first game back at home following an East Coast trip. See, two can play that game.

If you really want to find a way to devalue this win, go for the Rondo factor, it plays better. It really can disrupt a team to try and integrate a key player during the season.

Steve

What? Your definitely not winning at this "game". Rick Carslie himself said that playing 3 games in 4 nights played a huge role in their loss.

If you think having to play a home game WITH REST after a road trip is as hard as playing 3 games in 4 nights on back to back and on the road, then I really don't you think know much about fatigue.

 

[Errntknght]

Unlike you, I've seen nothing to suggest Goodwin deserves playing time. You like his defense, I hate it. If they were playing one on one, I'd like Archie's chances but it's a team game and he's hard on his teammates. I don't know why Warren isn't getting any time but I've heard a comment or two that suggests he's also having trouble adjusting to team defense.

Anyway, other than a few minutes at a time, I think it's a mistake to play someone when he isn't the better choice in the present or the near future. Right now, we don't have the luxury of approaching it in a different way if trying for the playoffs is still the goal.

Steve

I don't know what you mean by saying Archie is hard on his teammates - he's not an inveterate gambler on defense, which is the sort thing you seem to be implying.

My general philosophy differs from our managements as I have developed a strong distaste for being a low seed in the playoffs, though I believe playoff experience is beneficial. It isn't so beneficial that you should overlook anything that might bring you into contention. Last year I said that if we were going to contend it would have to be through the development of Len and Goodwin and this year I add Warren to that list.

With our current offense Goodwin isn't likely to explode but I'd still play him in place of Green when Gerald isn't on. Warren, on the other hand, is just what this offense needs - I'd play Warren ahead of Green across the board and I'd have played him ahead of Tolliver when he was here. Defense is no issue when it comes to replacing those two. (Gerald is working harder on defense and rebounding the last few games, I will concede.)

I'd still find a way to play Goodwin - probably teaming him up with Bledsoe and PJ to have a disruptive backcourt defense we could use when needed. He wouldn't get lots of minutes but he'd have a well defined role and I'd expect that to help his overall confidence.

 

[Zobaczcie suki]

issing match:

 

[AzStevenCal]

I don't know what you mean by saying Archie is hard on his teammates - he's not an inveterate gambler on defense, which is the sort thing you seem to be implying.

I was talking about switches and help rotations.

My general philosophy differs from our managements as I have developed a strong distaste for being a low seed in the playoffs, though I believe playoff experience is beneficial. It isn't so beneficial that you should overlook anything that might bring you into contention. Last year I said that if we were going to contend it would have to be through the development of Len and Goodwin and this year I add Warren to that list.

We haven't made the playoffs the last 4 seasons, I don't think we have a recent history of low seeding to worry about. We have a recent history of irrelevance to worry about. I agree that we need to develop our young talent, I don't agree that it isn't happening just because we don't see them during game time. There are a number of things that they need to develop, only a few of them require actual game time. It's impossible for us to sit in our living rooms and know where they are in that process, IMO.

With our current offense Goodwin isn't likely to explode but I'd still play him in place of Green when Gerald isn't on. Warren, on the other hand, is just what this offense needs - I'd play Warren ahead of Green across the board and I'd have played him ahead of Tolliver when he was here. Defense is no issue when it comes to replacing those two. (Gerald is working harder on defense and rebounding the last few games, I will concede.)

You almost need a crystal ball to know when Green isn't on. The guy can easily miss his first 7 shots and then put up a quick 20 on you. And I'm with you, I'd rather see Warren than Tolliver in the past or Green when he's nonchalant but I don't know that Jeff is screwing it up. There may be very good reasons for not giving TJ playing time (yet, as I do believe it's coming).

I'd still find a way to play Goodwin - probably teaming him up with Bledsoe and PJ to have a disruptive backcourt defense we could use when needed. He wouldn't get lots of minutes but he'd have a well defined role and I'd expect that to help his overall confidence.

I'd rather package him and try to bring back a decent big man. Maybe send him and the Minny pick to Boston for Wright? I haven't written him off but I still think he's a long shot to make it and that increased playing time will just hasten his move to China (or wherever).

Steve

 

[AzStevenCal]

What? Your definitely not winning at this "game". Rick Carslie himself said that playing 3 games in 4 nights played a huge role in their loss.

If you think having to play a home game WITH REST after a road trip is as hard as playing 3 games in 4 nights on back to back and on the road, then I really don't you think know much about fatigue.

Quote please. You have a history of exaggerating comments so I'm going to have to see where he said "huge role" in loss. Also, would you really expect him to say anything that could possibly be interpreted as the "Rondo factor". They're immediate future depends on acclimating Rajon and I can't see Carlisle (one of the league's smartest coaches) adding fuel to that fire.

I haven't done the research but I do know that you can count on hearing about the first game home jinx any time a team returns from a 3 or more game road trip. Eddie talked about it several times last night and it's not just an Eddie Johnson thing, I hear other announcers/analysts mention it whenever it's relevant. Yes, playing 3 games in 4 nights is often a factor but then you've got Dallas who has a recent history of winning at a higher rate on the road than they should based on home performances.

Anyway, I don't know which factor is greater for our win last night. But I do know that you have a habit of pissing all over our victories. You have that right but don't be surprised if occasionally one of us comes along and tries to clean up your mess. If you were fully house broken it wouldn't be necessary.

Steve

 

[SirStefan32]

I was talking about switches and help rotations.



We haven't made the playoffs the last 4 seasons, I don't think we have a recent history of low seeding to worry about. We have a recent history of irrelevance to worry about. I agree that we need to develop our young talent, I don't agree that it isn't happening just because we don't see them during game time. There are a number of things that they need to develop, only a few of them require actual game time. It's impossible for us to sit in our living rooms and know where they are in that process, IMO.



You almost need a crystal ball to know when Green isn't on. The guy can easily miss his first 7 shots and then put up a quick 20 on you. And I'm with you, I'd rather see Warren than Tolliver in the past or Green when he's nonchalant but I don't know that Jeff is screwing it up. There may be very good reasons for not giving TJ playing time (yet, as I do believe it's coming).



I'd rather package him and try to bring back a decent big man. Maybe send him and the Minny pick to Boston for Wright? I haven't written him off but I still think he's a long shot to make it and that increased playing time will just hasten his move to China (or wherever).

Steve

It is amazing to me that you are such a Bledsoe fan yet don't like Goodwin. Archie IS a taller, younger Bledsoe.

 

[AzStevenCal]

It is amazing to me that you are such a Bledsoe fan yet don't like Goodwin. Archie IS a taller, younger Bledsoe.

There are certainly similarities. And if the light goes on, Archie might well end up as a better player than Bledsoe. But I'm not convinced the light will ever come on and I had my doubts about Bledsoe too until last season.

I wouldn't simply dump Goodwin but if it were up to me I'd rather get Warren the playing time and improve our front court then try and develop both of them while still eyeing court time for Ennis. I guess if we decided to part ways with Goran it might make sense to sacrifice the short term for the long term but with our current roster, I think balancing the present with the future makes more sense.

Steve

 

[sunsfan88]

Quote please. You have a history of exaggerating comments so I'm going to have to see where he said "huge role" in loss. Also, would you really expect him to say anything that could possibly be interpreted as the "Rondo factor". They're immediate future depends on acclimating Rajon and I can't see Carlisle (one of the league's smartest coaches) adding fuel to that fire.

I haven't done the research but I do know that you can count on hearing about the first game home jinx any time a team returns from a 3 or more game road trip. Eddie talked about it several times last night and it's not just an Eddie Johnson thing, I hear other announcers/analysts mention it whenever it's relevant. Yes, playing 3 games in 4 nights is often a factor but then you've got Dallas who has a recent history of winning at a higher rate on the road than they should based on home performances.

Anyway, I don't know which factor is greater for our win last night. But I do know that you have a habit of pissing all over our victories. You have that right but don't be surprised if occasionally one of us comes along and tries to clean up your mess. If you were fully house broken it wouldn't be necessary.

Steve

Quote please, other than 1 pt win over the Bucks or 76ers or whoever, please show me the games in which I come around "pissing over out victories".

I know your still thinking the Suns are gonna make playoffs and do damage, I feel bad due to the disappointment you'll have to endure while watching yet ANOTHER non playoff season.

As said repeatedly, I'm fine with not making playoffs because I understand it's a process but most or ALL teams who haven't made playoffs in 4 years usually give the young guys time to develop while their young. Suns? Other Kieff, hell no.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Quote please, other than 1 pt win over the Bucks or 76ers or whoever, please show me the games in which I come around "pissing over out victories".

Do I really need to link to your many comments suggesting the win won't matter or telling us it didn't mean much? You do it pretty frequently.

I know your still thinking the Suns are gonna make playoffs and do damage, I feel bad due to the disappointment you'll have to endure while watching yet ANOTHER non playoff season.

Not true. I'm not very high on our chances of doing anything in the playoffs and I realize just making the playoffs will be very tough. But I think there is value in striving for the playoffs as long as it's not a pipe dream. I don't think it's reached the "pipe dream" stage even though we do have some losses that will be difficult to make up for.

As said repeatedly, I'm fine with not making playoffs because I understand it's a process but most or ALL teams who haven't made playoffs in 4 years usually give the young guys time to develop while their young. Suns? Other Kieff, hell no.

Well, we really didn't have much in the way of young guys until last season other than the twins and we gave them plenty of burn. The only one that didn't get much time last year really is Goodwin. Len, between missing camp and struggling to return from injury and surgery, wasn't an option most of the season. Even though we didn't make the playoffs, we were in the race which was good both for the players and for raising fan interest. It would have been nice to take another step forward rather than simply repeating last year but plans don't always unfold the way you want them to.

Steve

 

[elindholm]

You almost need a crystal ball to know when Green isn't on. The guy can easily miss his first 7 shots and then put up a quick 20 on you.

Yes, the myth that immediate past accuracy is a predictor of whether a player is "hot" or "cold" has been debunked many times over, yet it persists. The extremes with Green are more obvious because he shoots every time he touches the ball, so his streaks in either direction will be more frequent and unfold more quickly. But the same uncertainty exists with any player.