Miller once again does it again!

[ajcardfan]

Miller is screwed. Sorry.

 

[overseascardfan]

Nobody is comitting to Arizona while it's image is currently in the wood chipper. Hopefully they can hang on to Williams and O'Neal but you know UCLA will be on them.

Williams just re-affirmed his commitment but that could change when spotlight shifts from LOU to UA and if dirt lands on Miller and he gets axed.

 

[TJ]

Miller is screwed. Sorry.

Who knows. For certain, UofA is going to get some sort of punishment from the NCAA. To what degree remains to be seen. It all depends on if the FBI can directly link Sean Miller to these impermissible benefits. All the FBI has is Book receiving wires from agents and wiring funds to a recruit. The FBI has already met with Sean on Tuesday morning when this came out. The school is doing its own internal investigation.

In Sean's case, it's never been proven that he cheated the system in his entire coaching career, so if there is no new information uncovered, it's likely that he keeps his job and receives a first-time offender punishment (vacated wins, loss of scholarships, etc.). To go from squeaky clean to terminated would mean that something very significant has happened. Pitino got canned because UL was barely recovering from the escort scandal.

What keeps getting forgotten in this whole situation is that this isn't about schools, head coaches, etc., it's about shoe companies and AAU teams. Book, Evans, et al, are pawns who're being leveraged to talk by the feds. Technically, UofA is listed as a victim in this complaint, not a perpetrator, which implies Book may have gone rogue during his recruiting visits.

The real idiot in this situation is the NCAA. Let's face it: Giving collegiate athletes impermissible benefits is pervasive. I saw it first hand at UofA when I was a student 13 years ago and I heard many accounts about it at ASU and other schools. It's just taboo for people to talk about it out in the open because everyone benefits from it--Universities, fans, coaches, players, and the NCAA. The landscape of college sports and recruiting is about to change significantly now that the FBI, not the NCAA, is seemingly policing things.

 

[Chaplin]

Who knows. For certain, UofA is going to get some sort of punishment from the NCAA. To what degree remains to be seen. It all depends on if the FBI can directly link Sean Miller to these impermissible benefits. All the FBI has is Book receiving wires from agents and wiring funds to a recruit. The FBI has already met with Sean on Tuesday morning when this came out. The school is doing its own internal investigation.

In Sean's case, it's never been proven that he cheated the system in his entire coaching career, so if there is no new information uncovered, it's likely that he keeps his job and receives a first-time offender punishment (vacated wins, loss of scholarships, etc.). To go from squeaky clean to terminated would mean that something very significant has happened. Pitino got canned because UL was barely recovering from the escort scandal.

What keeps getting forgotten in this whole situation is that this isn't about schools, head coaches, etc., it's about shoe companies and AAU teams. Book, Evans, et al, are pawns who're being leveraged to talk by the feds. Technically, UofA is listed as a victim in this complaint, not a perpetrator, which implies Book may have gone rogue during his recruiting visits.

The real idiot in this situation is the NCAA. Let's face it: Giving collegiate athletes impermissible benefits is pervasive. I saw it first hand at UofA when I was a student 13 years ago and I heard many accounts about it at ASU and other schools. It's just taboo for people to talk about it out in the open because everyone benefits from it--Universities, fans, coaches, players, and the NCAA. The landscape of college sports and recruiting is about to change significantly now that the FBI, not the NCAA, is seemingly policing things.

No doubt. The NCAA is BY FAR the biggest villain in this whole scandal.

 

[Dback Jon]

No doubt. The NCAA is BY FAR the biggest villain in this whole scandal.

BS

 

[Chaplin]

BS

Very deep and imaginative post. What do you mean? The NCAA has been a stain on the sports world for YEARS. This is just a result of their horrible and greedy policies.

 

[Dback Jon]

Very deep and imaginative post. What do you mean? The NCAA has been a stain on the sports world for YEARS. This is just a result of their horrible and greedy policies.

The NCAA is made up of the member schools. The member school Presidents choose the NCAA leadership. The P5 conference members have bullied their way into autonomy and have rendered NCAA enforcement toothless. If the NCAA turns a blind eye to certain programs, that is the work of the University Presidents.


Be mad at your own schools leadership for endorsing these policies. It's like being mad at the IRS for enforcing laws voted on by Congress.

 

[Chaplin]

The NCAA is made up of the member schools. The member school Presidents choose the NCAA leadership. The P5 conference members have bullied their way into autonomy and have rendered NCAA enforcement toothless. If the NCAA turns a blind eye to certain programs, that is the work of the University Presidents.


Be mad at your own schools leadership for endorsing these policies. It's like being mad at the IRS for enforcing laws voted on by Congress.

Regardless of who is on the board, the charter and rules/regulations still exist and are followed to a tee.

Turning a blind eye? What are you talking about? This is about the ramifications of a system that makes BILLIONS of dollars and doesn't give the kids a dime. It actually has more in common with slavery than anything. How is that NOT a problem?

 

[Dback Jon]

Regardless of who is on the board, the charter and rules/regulations still exist and are followed to a tee.

Turning a blind eye? What are you talking about? This is about the ramifications of a system that makes BILLIONS of dollars and doesn't give the kids a dime. It actually has more in common with slavery than anything. How is that NOT a problem?

It is insulting to call it slavery - no one is forcing the kids to go to college, and no one is forcing them to stay there. And while they don't get much compensation (At most big schools, they get $4-7K for Full cost of Attendance), they get free schooling, room, board.

Most of the money made in the tourney goes to support other sports and championships.

And even if the basketball players were paid, say $50K each, it pales in comparison to what the shoe companies were paying them.

 

[TJ]

Be mad at your own schools leadership for endorsing these policies. It's like being mad at the IRS for enforcing laws voted on by Congress.

I have every right to be mad at congress for voting on laws if, say, their votes were purchased by lobbyists or other third-parties, questioning who exactly they're representing.

It's well-known that the NCAA benefits monetarily from shoe companies, which raises reasonable suspicion as to why they don't police these practices more vigorously. It's when the NCAA doesn't benefit is when it flexes its muscles; for example, the NCAA doesn't profit from Baylor football players raping co-eds and doesn't profit from a Penn State coach having sex with underage boys in the shower.

The NCAA looks stupid because payment to players has occurred for decades, is very obvious when it happens, and is still common practice today. The only difference is that the money primarily comes from shoe companies and not necessarily from boosters. If the NCAA decided it wanted to investigate Kentucky or Kansas basketball due to suspicion of impermissible benefits, I guarantee you there'd be dozens of cases by the end of the year.

 

[DWKB]

If the NCAA decided it wanted to investigate Kentucky or Kansas basketball due to suspicion of impermissible benefits, I guarantee you there'd be dozens of cases by the end of the year.

Why don't you worry about your own house burning right now.

 

[TJ]

Why don't you worry about your own house burning right now.

You better hope that Zion Williamson allegation is BS.

 

[DWKB]

You better hope that Zion Williamson allegation is BS.

Quit reading fake news from a South Carolina fan blog.

Then again, you believe Miller was a plant for the FBI two years ago to oust his asst coach of how many years now?

 

[TJ]

Quit reading fake news from a South Carolina fan blog.

Then again, you believe Miller was a plant for the FBI two years ago to oust his asst coach of how many years now?

And I'm sure you can tell me with 100% confidence that Adidas-sponsored Kansas is running a squeaky clean operation in Lawrence.

 

[gmabel830]

And I'm sure you can tell me with 100% confidence that Adidas-sponsored Kansas is running a squeaky clean operation in Lawrence.

Of course not - they are all doing it. Our guy just happened to be one of the ones talking to the guy wearing a wire.

 

[TJ]

Of course not - they are all doing it. Our guy just happened to be one of the ones talking to the guy wearing a wire.

Exactly. Fools like our resident KU fan will try and convince you that their school is clean when the smoke comes from their campus just as thick as it does ours.

If I'm a Power 5 Adidas school, and knowing who the biggest turn on this bust was, I'm checking the news everyday to see when/if my school is implicated. Nobody is safe.

 

[DWKB]

And I'm sure you can tell me with 100% confidence that Adidas-sponsored Kansas is running a squeaky clean operation in Lawrence.

No, I would never claim that. But you obviously feel the need to believe ridiculous claims about your coach working with the FBI and throwing other schools under the bus to make you feel better about your coach and team.

Deal with your misery, don't try and make company. I only see one fool here, TJ.

 

[TJ]

No, I would never claim that. But you obviously feel the need to believe ridiculous claims about your coach working with the FBI and throwing other schools under the bus to make you feel better about your coach and team.

Deal with your misery, don't try and make company. I only see one fool here, TJ.

Foolishly, you overreacted to an innocuous example and personalized it like a self-conscious 14 year-old schoolgirl, while admitting that you cannot confidently claim innocence for your program. Your soapbox is breaking from underneath; time for you to get off.

Unless you have anything of substance to contribute, this isn't a conversation for you.

 

[DWKB]

And you overreacted to an innocuous example and personalized it like a self-conscious 14 year-old schoolgirl, while admitting that you cannot confidently claim innocence for your program. Your soapbox is breaking from underneath; time for you to get off.

Unless you have anything of substance to contribute, this isn't a conversation for you.

It wasn't innocuous, you chose KU because you think KU is dirty and it would make an easy example. Considering the current position of your school I thought it worth calling out.

I didn't come over here to rub anything in you or your teams faces about this even though I'm laughing over here at your personal attempts to rationalize the royal farkedness of your coach and program right now. I didn't post until you tried to defile KU.

You can now have your safe space back.

 

[carey]

Very deep and imaginative post. What do you mean? The NCAA has been a stain on the sports world for YEARS. This is just a result of their horrible and greedy policies.

Agreed, Chap.

 

[GatorAZ]

As of right now the only player identified as receiving payments was Quinerly who will never play a game at Arizona. Unlike Pitino, Miller wasn't indentified as knowing recruits were receiving payments. For that reason it's hard to imagine Miller getting fired or suspended from within. The NCAA can punish a coach based on his assistant's action so I'm expecting a suspension and hefty fine plus loss of scholarships or something. From what has been reported it seems like the other programs mentioned are worse off. I saw on twitter Auburn is getting their property raided.

Not sure about USC's transgressions. @Russ Smith

 

[Russ Smith]

The FBI investigation is about shoe companies and AAU teams. Universities are listed as victims in this situation. With that said, Miller would not be a "bigger fish." Adidas et al would be the "bigger fish."




97 is more connected to the program than anyone not employed with the AD, so I tend to believe him until I have reason not to believe him. He's never been more transparent about anything about the program ever. Whatever connection he has would be compromised if he were any more transparent about situations in the past. He obviously has some sort of green light if he's discussing this situation, or he wouldn't be putting that connection in jeopardy.

BTW---everyone was wrong on Bowen and Walker. Bowen never even had UL in his Top 6 and Walker was all but committed to Arizona until Miami snatched him last minute.

Anything is possible but given that all the schools are saying they didn't know a thing about this until the day it dropped, and the NCAA has said the same thing, it would be surprising if the FBI told Miller about it. Walker committed in Nov 16, this story just broke this week, that's 10 months and they had to tell Miller before Walker committed so he could "back off" so that means the FBI tipped off Miller almost a year ago?

Also, if Miller knew for more than 10 months and still let Book recruit an entire 18 class that included paying Quinerly and the Nassir Little stuff with presumably Nike allegedly offering to pay him, that's a bit reckless no?

I don't know about you but if the FBI called me and told me something like that, I'd bend over backwards to make sure my program stayed clean until the investigation went public.

Put it this way if it turns out he's right I'll go on beardownwildcats and post a full apology for questioning him, I suspect he won't do the same if it turns out he's wrong.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I have every right to be mad at congress for voting on laws if, say, their votes were purchased by lobbyists or other third-parties, questioning who exactly they're representing.

Totally missed his point. He's a sting you SHOULD be mad at CONGRESS for making the laws, not the IRS for enforcing them.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Anything is possible but given that all the schools are saying they didn't know a thing about this until the day it dropped, and the NCAA has said the same thing, it would be surprising if the FBI told Miller about it. Walker committed in Nov 16, this story just broke this week, that's 10 months and they had to tell Miller before Walker committed so he could "back off" so that means the FBI tipped off Miller almost a year ago?

Also, if Miller knew for more than 10 months and still let Book recruit an entire 18 class that included paying Quinerly and the Nassir Little stuff with presumably Nike allegedly offering to pay him, that's a bit reckless no?

I don't know about you but if the FBI called me and told me something like that, I'd bend over backwards to make sure my program stayed clean until the investigation went public.

Put it this way if it turns out he's right I'll go on beardownwildcats and post a full apology for questioning him, I suspect he won't do the same if it turns out he's wrong.

Yeah but if the FBI did contact Miller (which I'm 100% skeptical of) maybe they instructed him not to interfere, and perhaps even allow, these things to unfold to allow the FBI's operation to succeed. I don't believe a word I just typed.

 

[Russ Smith]

http://uschoops.com/vbulletin/forum...-what-is-going-on-with-fbi-doj-investigations

Who knows. For certain, UofA is going to get some sort of punishment from the NCAA. To what degree remains to be seen. It all depends on if the FBI can directly link Sean Miller to these impermissible benefits. All the FBI has is Book receiving wires from agents and wiring funds to a recruit. The FBI has already met with Sean on Tuesday morning when this came out. The school is doing its own internal investigation.

In Sean's case, it's never been proven that he cheated the system in his entire coaching career, so if there is no new information uncovered, it's likely that he keeps his job and receives a first-time offender punishment (vacated wins, loss of scholarships, etc.). To go from squeaky clean to terminated would mean that something very significant has happened. Pitino got canned because UL was barely recovering from the escort scandal.

What keeps getting forgotten in this whole situation is that this isn't about schools, head coaches, etc., it's about shoe companies and AAU teams. Book, Evans, et al, are pawns who're being leveraged to talk by the feds. Technically, UofA is listed as a victim in this complaint, not a perpetrator, which implies Book may have gone rogue during his recruiting visits.

The real idiot in this situation is the NCAA. Let's face it: Giving collegiate athletes impermissible benefits is pervasive. I saw it first hand at UofA when I was a student 13 years ago and I heard many accounts about it at ASU and other schools. It's just taboo for people to talk about it out in the open because everyone benefits from it--Universities, fans, coaches, players, and the NCAA. The landscape of college sports and recruiting is about to change significantly now that the FBI, not the NCAA, is seemingly policing things.

I can't paste it it's too big but there's a guy on BRO who was a federal prosecutor for over 20 years and he's gone into great detail on this.

First off the only reason the FBI lists schools as "victims" here is a technicality. The statute being used which believe it or not is called USC 666, requires they show certain elements to prove a federal crime has been committed, one of those is that they have to have acted "corruptly". In this case corruptly is shown by stating that Book and the other coaches have clauses in their contract that require them to adhere to certain rules and behavior and obviously taking bribes and paying players violates that. So they have "defrauded" their employer and acted "corruptly" by doing that. That's why they're being charged with federal crimes. That is the FBI doesn't really think Arizona is a victim here they're just wording it that way to satisfy the federal crime part of this.

To see more detail go to the link I'm posting and read the stuff written by shipwreckedcrew, the former federal prosecutor.

Pitino got fired because he's coach 2 in the charges against Louisville, that's been widely reported now. Coach 2 is the one who called Adidas and asked them for money to pay Brian Bowen. Because Louisville knows that they are firing him after the required 10 day wait, Pitino wants to challenge it all because he wants his buyout(44 million) but he likely didn't know he was Coach 2 when he boldly announced he was fighting this, how he acts now that he knows is anybodys guess. But assuming it's correct he's coach 2, they have him on tape etc and he HAD to be fired.

Miller presumably doesn't have that. Millers issue will be appearances, 2 of his 3 coaches were involved with these guys and his Associate Head Coach told Sood he was absolutely interested he just wanted to wait for the season to end. Luckily for Pasternack he got the UCSB job, they didn't have any steerable prospects so presumably the FBI lost interest in him. It's entirely likely if he was still at Arizona, he'd be coach #5 in this case.