MJ vs LeBron

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I voted MJ, but I think by the end of his career I may view Lebron as better. MJ had the luxury of having an elite running mate in Scottie Pippen, an all star wing in Toni Kukoc, Dennis Rodman at times, and an elite cast of role players around him. All Lebron has had with Cleveland is a me-first Kyrie. He has played with much inferior players than Jordan. Jordan's role players were even better because the Bulls were really good at finding veterans that fit specific roles very well. Those Bulls teams were detritus without Jordan or Pippen, yes, but I would argue that the Cavs are even worse without Lebron.

Lebron played with an in his prime wade and bosh. That was joined by a ton of vets chasing rings (ray Allen, mike Miller to name a couple) and still had a usable haslem.

He then directed the Cavs to acquire love and you’re selling kyrie incredibly short considering what he did in the finals. Not to mention, Lebron is also responsible for the dreck with which he’s playing. He’s the defacto gm. So that HAS to factor in.

And “elite role players?” Bill Cartwright? Luc longley? Bill wenningtin? Stacy king? Paxson? Kerr? Bj Armstrong? Using the term “elite” with that pupu platter of marginal talent is complete hyperbole.

Yeah I don’t think supporting cast plays heavily in lebrons favor.

 

[GatorAZ]

I agree that MJ’s supporting casts were highly underrated despite not being big names. The all played the Triangle perfectly and came thru in the clutch. Haha I remember Rodman completely mindf*cking Karl Malone.

 

[TJ]

Lebron hasn't accomplished much. .

Your argument died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound right after this sentence.

 

[TJ]

I agree that MJ’s supporting casts were highly underrated despite not being big names. The all played the Triangle perfectly and came thru in the clutch. Haha I remember Rodman completely mindf*cking Karl Malone.

MJ’s coach had a lot to do with the amount of production from the role players. Phil was a master at taking bit players, giving them clearly-defined roles to follow, and performing in those roles perfectly. Huge reason why both MJ and Kobe won zero rings without Phil. This is no coincidence.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

MJ’s coach had a lot to do with the amount of production from the role players. Phil was a master at taking bit players, giving them clearly-defined roles to follow, and performing in those roles perfectly. Huge reason why both MJ and Kobe won zero rings without Phil. This is no coincidence.

They both spent almost their entire careers with Jackson as their coach and so of course they never won titles without him..

 

[Hoop Head]

They both spent almost their entire careers with Jackson as their coach and so of course they never won titles without him..

Jordan played for 3 other coaches. Before Jackson took over the Bulls, Jordan played for a year under Kevin Loughery and a year for Stan Albeck. That was followed by 3 years of Dough Collins and then Phil was brought in. Doug Collins was also the Wizards coach when MJ unretired a 2nd time.

Kobe played for Del Harris in his first 3 years, played for Rudy Tomjanovich for a half season when Phil left after the Shaq trade, he was let go and Frank Hamblen took over the remainder of that season. Phil returned the next season. After Phil left again, Mike Brown was Kobe's coach for a year and 1/4, he was coming off winning Coach of the Year in Cleveland before joining the Lakers. He was Kobe's choice as well. D'Antoni took over in Brown's second year and coached the next season. Byron Scott coached the next 2 years, which were Kobe's last. Kobe wasn't "washed up" when he played for Brown, D'Antoni or after Phil left the first time. He was too accustomed to the triangle and Phil that he couldn't make it work with Rudy T though. He complained until the Lakers ponied up and paid Jackson to return.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Jordan played for 3 other coaches. Before Jackson took over the Bulls, Jordan played for a year under Kevin Loughery and a year for Stan Albeck. That was followed by 3 years of Dough Collins and then Phil was brought in. Doug Collins was also the Wizards coach when MJ unretired a 2nd time.

Kobe played for Del Harris in his first 3 years, played for Rudy Tomjanovich for a half season when Phil left after the Shaq trade, he was let go and Frank Hamblen took over the remainder of that season. Phil returned the next season. After Phil left again, Mike Brown was Kobe's coach for a year and 1/4, he was coming off winning Coach of the Year in Cleveland before joining the Lakers. He was Kobe's choice as well. D'Antoni took over in Brown's second year and coached the next season. Byron Scott coached the next 2 years, which were Kobe's last. Kobe wasn't "washed up" when he played for Brown, D'Antoni or after Phil left the first time. He was too accustomed to the triangle and Phil that he couldn't make it work with Rudy T though. He complained until the Lakers ponied up and paid Jackson to return.

And they spent pretty much the entirety of their primes under Phil Jackson.

 

[HeHasRosen]

I voted MJ, but I think by the end of his career I may view Lebron as better. MJ had the luxury of having an elite running mate in Scottie Pippen, an all star wing in Toni Kukoc, Dennis Rodman at times, and an elite cast of role players around him. All Lebron has had with Cleveland is a me-first Kyrie. He has played with much inferior players than Jordan. Jordan's role players were even better because the Bulls were really good at finding veterans that fit specific roles very well. Those Bulls teams were detritus without Jordan or Pippen, yes, but I would argue that the Cavs are even worse without Lebron.

Yes precisely.

Lebron played with an in his prime wade and bosh. That was joined by a ton of vets chasing rings (ray Allen, mike Miller to name a couple) and still had a usable haslem.

He then directed the Cavs to acquire love and you’re selling kyrie incredibly short considering what he did in the finals. Not to mention, Lebron is also responsible for the dreck with which he’s playing. He’s the defacto gm. So that HAS to factor in.

And “elite role players?” Bill Cartwright? Luc longley? Bill wenningtin? Stacy king? Paxson? Kerr? Bj Armstrong? Using the term “elite” with that pupu platter of marginal talent is complete hyperbole.

Yeah I don’t think supporting cast plays heavily in lebrons favor.

Ill give you wade and kyrie. These guys who played with Jordan are underrated and under valued. I would say any one of them was more valuable to jordan than say a bosch or love is to lebron. Jordan played on ELITE defensive teams his entire career. Something Lebron has never had the luxury of

 

[Milgod]

Yes precisely.



Ill give you wade and kyrie. These guys who played with Jordan are underrated and under valued. I would say any one of them was more valuable to jordan than say a bosch or love is to lebron. Jordan played on ELITE defensive teams his entire career. Something Lebron has never had the luxury of

Hold on. Who are you saying was more valuable than Bosh or Love?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Hold on. Who are you saying was more valuable than Bosh or Love?

Right? Sheesh

 

[HeHasRosen]

Collectively those guys were better than what love and bosh brought to the table. Lebron has played with mostly good offensive players. His teams have been historically bad on defense. Those bulls teams for the most part were defensively sound and had good depth. Some of that also im sure was due to coaching

 

[Krangodnzr]

Lebron played with an in his prime wade and bosh. That was joined by a ton of vets chasing rings (ray Allen, mike Miller to name a couple) and still had a usable haslem.

He then directed the Cavs to acquire love and you’re selling kyrie incredibly short considering what he did in the finals. Not to mention, Lebron is also responsible for the dreck with which he’s playing. He’s the defacto gm. So that HAS to factor in.

And “elite role players?” Bill Cartwright? Luc longley? Bill wenningtin? Stacy king? Paxson? Kerr? Bj Armstrong? Using the term “elite” with that pupu platter of marginal talent is complete hyperbole.

Yeah I don’t think supporting cast plays heavily in lebrons favor.

They were elite in the fact that they fit their roles perfectly on those teams. Horace Grant was a damn fine role player, as was was Paxson and Kerr. I guess elite is too strong a word, maybe well built teams that did a good job around the two superstars?

I'm mainly referring to Lebron's time in Cleveland, not Miami.

Kevin Love? He has been entirely misused by Cleveland and isn't a true star. Kyrie Irving is not a top 50 players of all time like Pippen was. Pippen in his prime was a true superstar in his own right, whereas Kyrie an all star, but by no means a top anything player of all time. And this isn't considering Cleveland has never had a team where you had a player as good as Kukoc as the #3 player either.

 

[TJ]

They were elite in the fact that they fit their roles perfectly on those teams. Horace Grant was a damn fine role player, as was was Paxson and Kerr. I guess elite is too strong a word, maybe well built teams that did a good job around the two superstars?

I'm mainly referring to Lebron's time in Cleveland, not Miami.

Kevin Love? He has been entirely misused by Cleveland and isn't a true star. Kyrie Irving is not a top 50 players of all time like Pippen was. Pippen in his prime was a true superstar in his own right, whereas Kyrie an all star, but by no means a top anything player of all time. And this isn't considering Cleveland has never had a team where you had a player as good as Kukoc as the #3 player either.

Basically, Jordan’s teams were well-coached. I can’t stress enough how important it was for MJ to have Phil running th show compared to guys like Spoelstra, Blatt, Brown, and Lue.

It’s like when Steve Kerr took over Mark Jackson’s team. Loaded with talent already, but needed a cerebral guy to make it all work.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Collectively those guys were better than what love and bosh brought to the table. Lebron has played with mostly good offensive players. His teams have been historically bad on defense. Those bulls teams for the most part were defensively sound and had good depth. Some of that also im sure was due to coaching

Some of that? The dreck that Jordan played with, other pippen Rodman and grant (and Harper to a lesser extent) were TERRIBLE individual defenders.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Basically, Jordan’s teams were well-coached. I can’t stress enough how important it was for MJ to have Phil running th show compared to guys like Spoelstra, Blatt, Brown, and Lue.

It’s like when Steve Kerr took over Mark Jackson’s team. Loaded with talent already, but needed a cerebral guy to make it all work.

I agree but I think lebrons litany of coaches is because Lebron runs them outta town for his guy . . . Lue. So that counts against Lebron in my opinion.

 

[TJ]

I agree but I think lebrons litany of coaches is because Lebron runs them outta town for his guy . . . Lue. So that counts against Lebron in my opinion.

I don’t disagree with that, but i do think he’s been enabled. As I said earlier, Jordan tried the same thing and was told to stay in his lane.

 

[leclerc]

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[leclerc]

Kevin Love? He has been entirely misused by Cleveland and isn't a true star. Kyrie Irving is not a top 50 players of all time like Pippen was. Pippen in his prime was a true superstar in his own right, whereas Kyrie an all star, but by no means a top anything player of all time. And this isn't considering Cleveland has never had a team where you had a player as good as Kukoc as the #3 player either.

According to Payton Pippin is 51 all time.

 

[Carolinacacti]

Well anyone change their minds after that performance by one of the greats?

 

[HeHasRosen]

Lebron gets no respect. I get that hes not Jordan personality wise. Jordan did have better players around him though most of the basketball heads agree with this. They did what they were supposed to. Not a one of them just disappeared the way love or jr smith or insert name here has. I will take their opinion over anyone on this board. I wish he had more fire in him but he doesnt. Overall take every aspect of basketball into account. Whos better? Its Lebron

 

[AzStevenCal]

Lebron gets no respect. I get that hes not Jordan personality wise. Jordan did have better players around him though most of the basketball heads agree with this. They did what they were supposed to. Not a one of them just disappeared the way love or jr smith or insert name here has. I will take their opinion over anyone on this board. I wish he had more fire in him but he doesnt. Overall take every aspect of basketball into account. Whos better? Its Lebron

I don't think this is close to undisputed at all but even if it were, it wouldn't tell the full story. With only 27 teams in Jordan's first championship season, the NBA wasn't as watered down back then. And it also ignores that one of MJ's greatest strengths was his ability to get the most out of his teammates.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Lebron gets no respect. I get that hes not Jordan personality wise. Jordan did have better players around him though most of the basketball heads agree with this. They did what they were supposed to. Not a one of them just disappeared the way love or jr smith or insert name here has. I will take their opinion over anyone on this board. I wish he had more fire in him but he doesnt. Overall take every aspect of basketball into account. Whos better? Its Lebron

None of them disappeared?!? Jordan’s lieutenant, pippen, was ROUTINELY bashed for becoming a shrinking violet in the playoffs.

 

[GatorAZ]

Jordan’s footwork and mid-range at 35 was so refined it’s scary.

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[Cheesebeef]

None of them disappeared?!? Jordan’s lieutenant, pippen, was ROUTINELY bashed for becoming a shrinking violet in the playoffs.

And Rodman was completely off the reservation by year three of that run

 

[leclerc]

Overall take every aspect of basketball into account. Whos better? Its Lebron

It's MJ.