MJ vs LeBron

[Mainstreet]

Cmon it has something to do with that? Thats usually the first thing brought up

Yes. It was not a fair argument.

What I should have said, you would have to see him play in an era when players could hand check him and defenses were very physical.

It's not like today's NBA where the offensive player is given all the breaks.

 

[HeHasRosen]

Yes. It was not a fair argument.

What I should have said, you would have to see him play in an era when players could hand check him and defenses were very physical.

It's not like today's NBA where the offensive player is given all the breaks.

Yes im aware i was watching. Part of my argument is LJ isnt soft like people claim. He uses what hes given to his advantage. I think if hes back in that time period he uses his size and strength to his advantage. He maybe would have been better in that era

 

[Cheesebeef]

Cmon it has something to do with that? Thats usually the first thing brought up

It’s brought up because once Michael reached his peak he was literally unbeatable... no matter what HOFer stood in his way... with or without home court advantage.

Those six titles speak to flat out dominance not seen since the 60’s Celtics... in ANY sport.

 

[Hoop Head]

No offense but i think theres a little 2 much "back in my day"/ "get off my lawn" going on in this thread. The question was, if they switched places who would be more successful. I voted Lebron for a few reasons. But to think its not close is a bit ridiculous imo. I still think the G.O.A.T. is MJ merely because of the hardware. But Lebron is obsessed with surpassing him and when its all said and done, i think he will

Lebron is obsessed with surpassing MJ so if they switched places he would come before Jordan, so how much could he accomplish without comparing it to someone else? Do you think he could win more than 6 titles if he didn't have that bar set for him? I don't think so. Jordan would win as many as humanly possible in today's time, regardless of who did what before him, but Lebron setting the mark to pass might have coasted after passing Magic, perhaps.

 

[Western Font]

I was referring to the colloquial reference to Jordan’s preferential treatment by the refs, which was very evident especially with Jordan’s penchant for traveling many times when he drove to ththe basket. Applied to Kobe, applies to LeBron.

Frankly, I’m stunned anyone who’s watched basketball in ththe “Golden Ages” would say Jordan never got the benefit of the doubt from officials.

We know what you were referring to, it’s just that the Jordan Rules specifically refers to how the Pistons shut him down. They would not be allowed to play him that way today. But MJ did also get preferential calls (a certain push-off, for example).

 

[Russ Smith]

Cmon it has something to do with that? Thats usually the first thing brought up

If it were that simple, then it wouldn't even be debated. Jordan has more, and he missed 3 full years in his peak because he retired, and they won the title 2 years in a row prior to his retirement so the odds are he'd have won 1-2 more if not for that retirement.

To me the old saying is to beat the champ you have to CLEARLY beat them. LeBron is remarkable, one of the best of all time, but he hasn't clearly beaten out Jordan yet.

I actually think it would be very interesting to have seen him play for Phil Jackson, would they still have run the triangle, if so would LeBron have been happy in that system etc.

 

[GatorAZ]

Two years off was the best thing that happened to Jordan. He needed a break and the Bulls needed a break from him... IMO.

 

[Mainstreet]

Yes im aware i was watching. Part of my argument is LJ isnt soft like people claim. He uses what hes given to his advantage. I think if hes back in that time period he uses his size and strength to his advantage. He maybe would have been better in that era

I've never considered Lebron soft. He could have well been a football player and likely a great one at that.

As you are aware Jordon left the game for awhile to play baseball to look for a new frontier to conquer. The fact that he could return to the NBA after an absence and pick up where he left off speaks volumes.

If Lebron played back in the Jordon days he would still be great but I don't think he would be better in that time period because force could be met with force. Anyway, it's mostly a matter of opinion.

I think every era needs it's stars so it's good we are having this conversation. It's not necessary for a winner to be crowned.

 

[Hoop Head]

If Lebron played in the late 80's or early 90's would he have tried to form a superteam back then? You hear guys like Barkley, Jordan, Bird, and Magic all say they would never be part of what Lebron did with Wade and Bosh down in Miami but I'm not sure about that. I don't think they would have done it in their primes but guys like Barkley did join other superstars later in his career, when he could no longer carry a team on his own. I highly doubt Jordan would have formed a superteam in today's game. I could see him chomping at the bit to dismantle a superteam just to prove he could.

 

[Mainstreet]

If Lebron played in the late 80's or early 90's would he have tried to form a superteam back then? You hear guys like Barkley, Jordan, Bird, and Magic all say they would never be part of what Lebron did with Wade and Bosh down in Miami but I'm not sure about that. I don't think they would have done it in their primes but guys like Barkley did join other superstars later in his career, when he could no longer carry a team on his own. I highly doubt Jordan would have formed a superteam in today's game. I could see him chomping at the bit to dismantle a superteam just to prove he could.

This is an excellent point. Rivalries were huge back then. Stars wanted to carry their team not join another team to win a championship.

 

[Cheesebeef]

If Lebron played in the late 80's or early 90's would he have tried to form a superteam back then? You hear guys like Barkley, Jordan, Bird, and Magic all say they would never be part of what Lebron did with Wade and Bosh down in Miami but I'm not sure about that. I don't think they would have done it in their primes but guys like Barkley did join other superstars later in his career, when he could no longer carry a team on his own. I highly doubt Jordan would have formed a superteam in today's game. I could see him chomping at the bit to dismantle a superteam just to prove he could.

That’s such horse manure on Magic and Bird’s part. They didn’t have to build a super team around because they already PLAYED on Superteams.

The Lakers in the 80’s were a non-stop superteam with Kareem (all time leading scorer previous MVP) Worthy (top pick in the draft) Byron Scott (top five pick) and even adding guys like Mychael Thompson as a sixth man eventually.

And Bird had DJ/Parrish/McHale/Ainge.

Both of them played with multiple HOFers... most right in their prime.

 

[Cheesebeef]

This is an excellent point. Rivalries were huge back then. Stars wanted to carry their team not join another team to win a championship.

The reason there was ONE rivalry back then was because the Lakers and Celtics had super teams. The idea that Bird/Magic “carried” anything is silly. They were the best players on their own teams, but those teams WERE Superteams which is why the Lakers went to the Finals 8 times in 10 years and the Celtics got there 5 times in 8 years before Bird started breaking down.

 

[Mainstreet]

The reason there was ONE rivalry back then was because the Lakers and Celtics had super teams. The idea that Bird/Magic “carried” anything is silly. They were the best players on their own teams, but those teams WERE Superteams which is why the Lakers went to the Finals 8 times in 10 years and the Celtics got there 5 times in 8 years before Bird started breaking down.

I was primarily thinking about Barkley and the 76ers.

No doubt there were super teams back then but the owners were were largely playing this role instead of the players which made it more palatable to me at the time.

When the owners did it it seemed more possible a Jerry Colangelo could build a championship team with the Suns.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I was primarily thinking about Barkley and the 76ers.

No doubt there were super teams back then but the owners were were largely playing this role instead of the players which made it more palatable to me at the time.

When the owners did it it seemed more possible a Jerry Colangelo could build a championship team with the Suns.

Yeah... I don't really see a distinction. If your owner sucks (which LeBron's does) I got no beef with him taking matters into his own hands. But I think we're splitting hairs here.

 

[CardsFan88]

Lebron hasn't accomplished much. He has a losing record in the finals (and was gifted one by suspension). He's 2-4 and it really should be 1-5.

Has always taken the easy route by moving to teams with other stars/superstars and then complained about needing more help until he destroyed that team and moved on to do it again... all in a historically weak eastern conference.

Meanwhile Jordan retired, played baseball. Was on good teams, but nothing like a Wade/Bosh tandem to go with. He never took the shortcuts LeBron did. He never ditched teams twice (after this year it may be three times) just to have it easier, while he was already in the easy lane in the Eastern conference.

Jordan played in a much more physical era, even handslaps were allowed. No zone defenses. He's much smaller, and there was far more talent in the NBA back then. Tons of good teams where any of them had a shot. Lots of great big men he had to go up against.

Lebron plays in the opposite. Soft league, smaller players, zone defenses, few teams that can compete, always in the Eastern Conference.

It's a joke anyone even considers LeBron to possibly be the best ever (not this poll but seen many things like this in national publications)... he shouldn't even be in the discussion.

He has a dominant body and should be putting up 40/15 each night. He rarely plays hard and you can see it when he's dogging it or trying. He tries for in total a few minutes a game, that's about it.

Yeah he's carrying the Cavs team he helped build, but LeBron is LeBron's worst enemy. He needs to start letting GM's have a plan, rather then always go for the short term quick fix, then blame the GM/Owner/team and jump ship about why they aren't good. It's all about LeBron.

Cavs are likely going to rue the day they got rid of Irving for one more year of LeBron.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Lebron hasn't accomplished much. He has a losing record in the finals (and was gifted one by suspension). He's 2-4 and it really should be 1-5.

Has always taken the easy route by moving to teams with other stars/superstars and then complained about needing more help until he destroyed that team and moved on to do it again... all in a historically weak eastern conference.

Meanwhile Jordan retired, played baseball. Was on good teams, but nothing like a Wade/Bosh tandem to go with. He never took the shortcuts LeBron did. He never ditched teams twice (after this year it may be three times) just to have it easier, while he was already in the easy lane in the Eastern conference.

Jordan played in a much more physical era, even handslaps were allowed. No zone defenses. He's much smaller, and there was far more talent in the NBA back then. Tons of good teams where any of them had a shot. Lots of great big men he had to go up against.

Lebron plays in the opposite. Soft league, smaller players, zone defenses, few teams that can compete, always in the Eastern Conference.

It's a joke anyone even considers LeBron to possibly be the best ever (not this poll but seen many things like this in national publications)... he shouldn't even be in the discussion.

He has a dominant body and should be putting up 40/15 each night. He rarely plays hard and you can see it when he's dogging it or trying. He tries for in total a few minutes a game, that's about it.

Yeah he's carrying the Cavs team he helped build, but LeBron is LeBron's worst enemy. He needs to start letting GM's have a plan, rather then always go for the short term quick fix, then blame the GM/Owner/team and jump ship about why they aren't good. It's all about LeBron.

Cavs are likely going to rue the day they got rid of Irving for one more year of LeBron.

This post is almost as ludicrous as that time you went nuts because Sportscenter didn't put a highlight package together for Logan Thomas' mop-up performance against 4th stringers in the 4th quarter of the first pre-season game.

He should be putting up 40/15 every night... my lord.

 

[Mainstreet]

Yeah... I don't really see a distinction. If your owner sucks (which LeBron's does) I got no beef with him taking matters into his own hands. But I think we're splitting hairs here.

Agree. There has been a lot of hair splitting going on.

New era fans need to hang on to their stars like Lebron and Curry. It's what keeps the ball rolling.

 

[Hoop Head]

Lebron has played for 3 owners though. Gilbert bought the Cav's after Lebron was drafted, taking over in 2005, granted Lebron was only 2 years into his career at that point. However Lebron played for Micky Arison and the Heat. He couldn't boss around Pat Riley, who was the GM in charge of the Heat, like he did the various GM's in Cleveland. When he couldn't get his way he decided to go play for Gilbert again. So I don't think saying he's had bad owners is telling the whole story. He chose the owner he's playing for now. Unlike his previous tenure in Cleveland, he knew exactly who Gilbert was when he returned to Cleveland.

 

[Phrazbit]

If this is LeBron only trying for "a few minutes a game" then he is easily the best player of all time.

 

[AzStevenCal]

If this is LeBron only trying for "a few minutes a game" then he is easily the best player of all time.[/QUOTE]

Unless...What if every great player only tries for a few minutes a game?

 

[GatorAZ]

This post is almost as ludicrous as that time you went nuts because Sportscenter didn't put a highlight package together for Logan Thomas' mop-up performance against 4th stringers in the 4th quarter of the first pre-season game.

He should be putting up 40/15 every night... my lord.

It’s got to be a troll post or Skip Bayless posting on ASFN.

 

[leclerc]

Votes say Jordan though and I agree. Bron is good but he'll never pass Mike.

 

[sunsfan88]

‘Bron has had such weak competition in his career, this has to be MJ.

This sums it up well

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[Krangodnzr]

I voted MJ, but I think by the end of his career I may view Lebron as better. MJ had the luxury of having an elite running mate in Scottie Pippen, an all star wing in Toni Kukoc, Dennis Rodman at times, and an elite cast of role players around him. All Lebron has had with Cleveland is a me-first Kyrie. He has played with much inferior players than Jordan. Jordan's role players were even better because the Bulls were really good at finding veterans that fit specific roles very well. Those Bulls teams were detritus without Jordan or Pippen, yes, but I would argue that the Cavs are even worse without Lebron.

 

[Krangodnzr]

‘Bron has had such weak competition in his career, this has to be MJ.

This sums it up well

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This is a function of circumstance. Kobe played in an era where the east was ridiculously weak and the west was particularly strong. Flipped Lebron and Kobe and I think the results are the same or maybe even more skewed because I think Lebron is better than Kobe ever was