Murray may not run at Pro Day Today (3/13)

[Crimson Warrior]

Surprisingly positive review of Murray's pro day from SI.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/03/13/kyler-murray-pro-day-oklahoma-nfl-draft

Makes me feel a little better about the situation.

 

[Shane]

Not if he plays twice & you play everyday lol

Shane’s got a gambling problem & loses his ass all the time anyway lol

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Bill Parcels never coached in a SB, when shopping for his own groceries.

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So you support the contention that the head coach shouldn’t have “strong influence” (let’s remember, that’s what he said, not control or decisionmaking authority - “strong influence”) over his roster? Seems a pretty dumb plan. Particularly when you consider that Steve Keim likely has a rudimentary understanding of what the air raid offense needs to be successful.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Bill Parcells was a head coach & general manager. It was literally his job to make personnel decisions.

Kliff Kingsbury is a head coach. Steve Keim is the general manager.

If you want Kliff Kingsbury to "drive your franchise" - then make him general manager too. Until then - he shouldn't be making the decisions.

“Strong influence” was the point of contention. Not “making decisions.”

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Yeah. It’s just like people are screaming “he’s Russel Wilson! We swear,” but refusing to believe there’s any kind of precedent to show that Wilson is extremely hard to replicate.

Agreed. But it’s equally stupid to dismiss what he’s done at the highest level of college football simply because of his stature. I think the extremists on both sides of this argument all look silly.

 

[Mainstreet]

And it worked out for Boys too:



https://www.deseretnews.com/article/123914/COWBOYS-TRADE-WALSH-TO-SAINTS.html

It's a good argument. I have used it as well. Let the quarterbacks compete. If the Cardinals hit on both then they have a positive trade asset.

I must say I'm not sold on Murray. He throws some passes into coverage which will get him into trouble in the NFL.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Why do you the Chargers fan and every other Murray backer keep citing and re-typing out his past accomplishments at inferior levels? Is it to try and strengthen your argument for guaranteeing his NFL success??

Shane - what else should they do? We all do this with every other prospect every friggin year. Can’t look at anything other than what he’s done to date to try to determine what he’ll do in the nfl. Next year as we approach the draft and we are talking about prospects are you really going to say “why are we talking about what he did at inferior levels?” Cmon man, that’s a lame question.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I love Kyler but bringing up high school accomplishments is pointless as hell.

No it isn’t. Wasn’t everyone here talking about Cole’s streak of never missing a start dating back to high school? Same thing. It’s just a data point among many. It’s not the reason either of them will succeed. But it’s one data point to take into account.

Man, so many of you are making arguments that you wouldn’t make in regards to other prospects because you’re so entrenched in your kyler opinion that you can’t even see that you’re making arguments you likely wouldn’t make in virtually any other scenario.

 

[Shane]

Shane - what else should they do? We all do this with every other prospect every friggin year. Can’t look at anything other than what he’s done to date to try to determine what he’ll do in the nfl. Next year as we approach the draft and we are talking about prospects are you really going to say “why are we talking about what he did at inferior levels?” Cmon man, that’s a lame question.

Your missing the “keep citing and re typing” aspect....

I get it bring them up once or twice hell even 3 times...

But each of them have literally typed out that entire list of accomplishments from pre school to college on numerous occasions over and over.... We’ve all seen them many times over. It’s not new and different people in this debate. How many times do you think you must try and pound it into our heads.

It didn’t change our mind when the Charger fan did it multiple occasions. It didn’t change our mind when Crimson did it multiples of times. Now Jones is joining the fray feeling the need to list every single accomplishment since the day he was born.

Lol

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Correctamundo. KK isn’t running the draft but if he has heavy input in the choice of QB’s it comes straight from Michael Bidwill. I also don’t think Keim would’ve hired KK in a million years. This is MB’s show.

Isn’t that what was said about last year’s Wilks disaster? Wtf is Keim responsible for anymore? People are really letting him off the hook already for this year too???

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Wrong!

Technically they used the #1 pick (of the draft) in 2 consecutive years on a QB. So there it has been done lol

That was the result. But Walsh was taken in the supplemental draft. As a result the cowboys lost their pick in the next draft. That’s how the supplemental draft works.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Your missing the “keep citing and re typing” aspect....

I get it bring them up once or twice hell even 3 times...

But each of them have literally typed out that entire list of accomplishments from pre school to college on numerous occasions over and over.... We’ve all seen them many times over. It’s not new and different people in this debate. How many times do you think you must try and pound it into our heads.

It didn’t change our mind when the Charger fan did it multiple occasions. It didn’t change our mind when Crimson did it multiples of times. Now Jones is joining the fray feeling the need to list every single accomplishment since the day he was born.

Lol

With all due respect the constant drilling of he’s small is the equivalent. Everyone knows he’s small, no? I mean you’d have to be without any of the five senses to have avoided having that drilled into your head on every other post on ASFN. I guess at least their listing of every accomplishment gives multiple points to discuss instead of “he’s small” which no one debates and offers no insight whatsoever.

 

[Buckybird]

That was the result. But Walsh was taken in the supplemental draft. As a result the cowboys lost their pick in the next draft. That’s how the supplemental draft works.

Yes I know but the pick that Walsh was selected with came from the 1990 draft, was the #1 pick of the entire draft.

As I stated they selected a guy #1 & traded him the next season after taking a guy with another #1. It happen case closed

 

[Shane]

With all due respect the constant drilling of he’s small is the equivalent. Everyone knows he’s small, no? I mean you’d have to be without any of the five senses to have avoided having that drilled into your head on every other post on ASFN. I guess at least their listing of every accomplishment gives multiple points to discuss instead of “he’s small” which no one debates and offers no insight whatsoever.

I get where your coming from but there is quite long historical evidence that small(short) under 6’ QBs just aren’t successful in the NFL. There really is only one that has any real true sustained success in the history of the NFL... ONE!

A little more concrete of an argument compared to so many many many stars in HS and college that have gone on to flame out in the NFL regardless of past success... The list is too long to even bother listing really..

 

[Buckybird]

I get where your coming from but there is quite long historical evidence that small(short) under 6’ QBs just aren’t successful in the NFL. There really is only one that has any real true sustained success in the history of the NFL... ONE!

A little more concrete of an argument compared to so many many many stars in HS and college that have gone on to flame out in the NFL regardless of past success... The list is too long to even bother listing really..

So nobody should ever draft a QB over 6’5” then

 

[GatorAZ]

Isn’t that what was said about last year’s Wilks disaster? Wtf is Keim responsible for anymore? People are really letting him off the hook already for this year too???

Nobody is letting Keim off the hook for personnel failures but I think Bidwill is the guy behind the coaching hires.

 

[GatorAZ]

From what I saw from Murray with his shirt on/off it didn’t look like he was carrying any bad weight. His feet and arm were lightening quick but who doesn’t look good at their pro day. You can literally take nothing away from it.

 

[NJCardFan]

So you guys act like no one has ever seen the kid run or throw. There’s plenty of tape out there. He’s a stud, even if he’s a shorter stud.

A stud in college doesn't always translate to a stud in the pros. Matt Leinart was a stud. Vince Young was a stud. Ron Dayne was a stud. Brian Bosworth was a stud. Tony Manderich, Art Schliester, Aundray Bruce, JaMarcus Russell, all studs. But guess who weren't studs? Tom Brady, Russell Wilson, Nick Foles, Brett Favre to name a few.

 

[Veer]

When the question about Murray's commitment to football comes up, people way overthink the whole saga.

Remember, he was drafted 9th overall in the MLB draft. Doesn't get much better than that. I'm sure he didn't really think of being a NFL 1st round choice with his size. Yet here we are. I'm sure as soon as Murray got feedback that he might indeed be a high 1st round pick, he had to switch his mind. Nothing wrong about him being supremely gifted. He's been playing QB his whole life, so you can't question his love for the game.

Worst case he is a bust, just like many big, tall QBs in recent years, and switches to baseball. If so, at least you aren't stuck with him for years, like the Jags were with Bortles, and can make a fresh start at QB. But if Murray has even moderate success, he won't walk away from football.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Yea I agree. Tim Couch, Vince Young, Chris Leak, Brian Brohm, & Matt Leinart all did real damage in the league after the success back in high school & college.

If you can't see the difference.... I don't know what else to say.

P. S. I actually saw Brohm play in his last HS game.

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[DVontel]

No it isn’t. Wasn’t everyone here talking about Cole’s streak of never missing a start dating back to high school? Same thing. It’s just a data point among many. It’s not the reason either of them will succeed. But it’s one data point to take into account.

Man, so many of you are making arguments that you wouldn’t make in regards to other prospects because you’re so entrenched in your kyler opinion that you can’t even see that you’re making arguments you likely wouldn’t make in virtually any other scenario.

Okay, it’s data pointed among many. It’s barely important at all to me, but if you feel the need to do it then good for you.

 

[DVontel]

If you can't see the difference.... I don't know what else to say.

P. S. I actually saw Brohm play in his last HS game.

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I can see the difference but that doesn’t make my statement any less true. It’s not a guarantee in the slightest that Kyler is going to continue his success in the NFL left off from HS & college.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I can see the difference but that doesn’t make my statement any less true. It’s not a guarantee in the slightest that Kyler is going to continue his success in the NFL left off from HS & college.

If you can see the difference, then it makes your entire statement less true.

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[Crimson Warrior]

Your missing the “keep citing and re typing” aspect....

I get it bring them up once or twice hell even 3 times...

But each of them have literally typed out that entire list of accomplishments from pre school to college on numerous occasions over and over.... We’ve all seen them many times over. It’s not new and different people in this debate. How many times do you think you must try and pound it into our heads.

It didn’t change our mind when the Charger fan did it multiple occasions. It didn’t change our mind when Crimson did it multiples of times. Now Jones is joining the fray feeling the need to list every single accomplishment since the day he was born.

Lol

haha Shane. I'd like to think that I don't spam out repetitive posts. Yes, I do reference Murray's college stats pretty frequently, but I've tried to approach changing your mind from a few different angles:

1. Citing his college statistical success
2. Requesting that you observing his in game performance.
3. Setting up a correlation between Murray and Mayfield
4. Emphasizing his physical advantages (i.e arm strength & speed)
5. Conceding his physical limitations, but citing his unicorn-like skill set that will allow him to beat the odds ala Wilson.

You, on the other hand, seem to really, really focus on his physical limitations, particularly his height.

Which is fine, but not compelling. The problem with your side of the Murray debate is that there is more evidence that he will be successful in the NFL than there is not. By quite a significant margin I'm afraid sir (at least in my humble estimation).

I think your best hope, and the most logical argument for not drafting Murray, as previously championed by TJ and Krangthebrain, is that taking Bosa and sticking with Rosen is safer than quitting on Rosen, and also passing on a (potential) defensive corner-piece . Even I admit that we would gambling a fair amount on Murray in that case.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I wish they would cite the NFL rule changes that have made special players like him MORE possible that at any time in the NFL's history.

How un-needed contact is being penalized right out of the game.
How QB's are barely able to be touched at this point. Especially if it is below the waist or above the neck.
How out of bounds hits are being flagged (horribly IMO but would work to our advantage).

It's not 2000 or even 2010, or even 2014 anymore. This issue will keep getting better for the QB's. Not worse.