Nash Wants to Finish Career With Suns

[Mainstreet]

Strange, my memory of Andrew Lang was much more soft than Lopez. Lopez is leaner and bigger boned. Lang was a bit pudgy.

Lang did appear a bit pudgy, especially in the face, but he had an excellent frame to carry that weight. I disagree Lopez is stronger than Lang. I'm sure Lang would have no problem pushing Lopez away from the basket. Also Lang generally played like he had a clue.

 

[Covert Rain]

You get all hung up on double doubles Lopez played extremely well at the end of last season next to Amare before the back problems. He averaged like 14/7 for a stretch with some blocks.
He scored 30 on Kaman, something Gortat for example has not done so far in more chances.

Clearly Lopez has talent, who knows why he has been as bad as he has been for most of the season. Maybe his back isn't fully recovered, maybe he struggles without Amare.

We shouldn't give up on him right now while his value is at an all-time low. It wouldn't be easy to find a better backup center anyway. Just keep him around as backup center and if he doesn't return to form let him go when his contract runs out..

Well I am not just hung up on his double doubles. I am hung up on his overall performance. I took into consideration how many times the guy even broke double digit rebounds as a 7 footer when healthy. I am hung up on the things that he was brought here to do (rebound and defend).

Again, some people get excited when the guy scores. I get excited when he does the things a legit 7 foot center in the NBA should do. I get excited when he does the things we brought him here to do.

Healthy or not Lopez is one of the worst rebounding centers in the entire NBA. Saying "remember" when Lopez scored this many or did this or that that one game....doesn't change that.

Should we give up on him being a backup? I have no idea. However, if what we have seen this season is any indication, we could trade him and the Suns would probably never feel the impact.

Fact - The Suns could probably find a backup center to contribute 6.4 PPG and 3.2 Rebounds per game.

 

[AzStevenCal]

You get all hung up on double doubles Lopez played extremely well at the end of last season next to Amare before the back problems. He averaged like 14/7 for a stretch with some blocks.
He scored 30 on Kaman, something Gortat for example has not done so far in more chances.

Clearly Lopez has talent, who knows why he has been as bad as he has been for most of the season. Maybe his back isn't fully recovered, maybe he struggles without Amare.

We shouldn't give up on him right now while his value is at an all-time low. It wouldn't be easy to find a better backup center anyway. Just keep him around as backup center and if he doesn't return to form let him go when his contract runs out..

I have to agree with all of this except for the bolded sentence. We could find a better backup center playing at the local Girl's Club gym. Lopez has been beyond horrible this year but last season, before the back injury, he looked like one of the better young centers in the game. Maybe it's still his back, maybe he needs a premier and powerful forward playing next to him but whatever it is, good big men are enough of a rarity that we should give him every chance to succeed. I think it's a wasted effort but one we absolutely need to make.

Steve

 

[JCSunsfan]

I have to agree with all of this except for the bolded sentence. We could find a better backup center playing at the local Girl's Club gym. Lopez has been beyond horrible this year but last season, before the back injury, he looked like one of the better young centers in the game. Maybe it's still his back, maybe he needs a premier and powerful forward playing next to him but whatever it is, good big men are enough of a rarity that we should give him every chance to succeed. I think it's a wasted effort but one we absolutely need to make.

Steve

I think what Babby said is the key. We need to find out what the problem with Lopez is. There is just too much potential there to trade it away without know it can be fixed.

Its kind of like having a really nice car that won't run. You hate the thing. Its worthless just sitting there in the driveway. But you don't just give it away without finding out what it will take to fix it. Maybe the engine is blown and its worthless, but maybe its something relatively inexpensive. You just have to figure it out.

 

[BC867]

Also, I cannot remember any center including Lang, who routinely brings the ball down around his ankles on a rebound. Perhaps you were just exaggerating.

You're right, I did exaggerate about his ankles. I should have used a .

But he really did bring the rebounded ball down to just above his knees, to the level of the smallest defender on the court and reducing his strength to his wrists. It was frustrating to watch.

Regarding Lopez, it is interesting that once he moved Gortat into the starting rotation, he played Lopez about five minutes in most of the remaining games.

Twice he gave the time to Siler after a sub .500 finish was inevitable. That was positive for giving him an opportunity.

But the other times, he reverted to using Frye as backup Center which was negative for Lopez.

Whether it was for physical or mental reasons, we may never know. But he sure gave up on him. Starting Center to ghost. Quite an extreme.

If they had been showcasing Lopez for a trade. It's like the old joke. Better to keep your mouth shut and let them think you're stupid than say something and let them know it.

I can't remember if I posted that reference recently. If I did, well y'know, short-term memory.

'Posted what recently?

 

[Mainstreet]

You're right, I did exaggerate about his ankles. I should have used a .

But he really did bring the rebounded ball down to just above his knees, to the level of the smallest defender on the court and reducing his strength to his wrists. It was frustrating to watch.

Regarding Lopez, it is interesting that once he moved Gortat into the starting rotation, he played Lopez about five minutes in most of the remaining games.

Twice he gave the time to Siler after a sub .500 finish was inevitable. That was positive for giving him an opportunity.

But the other times, he reverted to using Frye as backup Center which was negative for Lopez.

Whether it was for physical or mental reasons, we may never know. But he sure gave up on him. Starting Center to ghost. Quite an extreme.

If they had been showcasing Lopez for a trade. It's like the old joke. Better to keep your mouth shut and let them think you're stupid than say something and let them know it.

I can't remember if I posted that reference recently. If I did, well y'know, short-term memory.

'Posted what recently?

I think we agree. For the most part I think the Suns would be better off letting teams guess the value of Lopez than showing them.

 

[Covert Rain]

I think what Babby said is the key. We need to find out what the problem with Lopez is. There is just too much potential there to trade it away without know it can be fixed.

Except...the one thing you will never be able to fix is his rebounding. He was not a great rebounder in college for his size and even worse one in the NBA. Being a 7 foot center who can't consistently rebound in the NBA is never a commodity. I can't even think of one example of a poor rebounding center magically becoming a good one.

So, when I hear "potential" I think from a backup perspective. Lopez might have some potential there but you could never have such a poor rebounding center as a starter unless you get a hell of a rebounding PF to sit beside him. Even then I don't think I would want him in my starting lineup.

I have no problems with the Suns holding onto the guy as long as it's to see if he can improve to become a better backup. I also have no problems with getting rid of the guy either because we could easily find someone to put up his current #'s.

 

[SirStefan32]

Except...the one thing you will never be able to fix is his rebounding. He was not a great rebounder in college for his size and even worse one in the NBA. Being a 7 foot center who can't consistently rebound in the NBA is never a commodity. I can't even think of one example of a poor rebounding center magically becoming a good one.

So, when I hear "potential" I think from a backup perspective. Lopez might have some potential there but you could never have such a poor rebounding center as a starter unless you get a hell of a rebounding PF to sit beside him. Even then I don't think I would want him in my starting lineup.

I have no problems with the Suns holding onto the guy as long as it's to see if he can improve to become a better backup. I also have no problems with getting rid of the guy either because we could easily find someone to put up his current #'s.

It's a tough situation. I am very disappointed in Lopez, but he's a 23 year old 7 footer. We need to be patient with him.

 

[elindholm]

Being a 7 foot center who can't consistently rebound in the NBA is never a commodity.

Robin's rebound rate this season (0.218 per minute) was better than Brook's (0.169) and just a shade worse than Stoudemire's (0.222). As poor rebounders, neither Lopez is going to become a great center, but I think we'd agree that Brook is more than serviceable. It's not rebounding specifically that is holding Robin back.

 

[leclerc]

Lopez has more potential than simply being a backup center. He could be a valuable player off the bench for us. Work with him this summer, both coaches and doctors. Get him fixed and ready to go. Add a Brandon Knight or Kemba Walker or maybe a promising shooting guard or small forward (with higher ceiling than our present bunch) then maybe a stud pf and we're good.

 

[HooverDam]

Add a Brandon Knight or Kemba Walker or maybe a promising shooting guard or small forward (with higher ceiling than our present bunch) then maybe a stud pf and we're good.

So once we dramatically improve 4 of the 5 positions on the court for the future, we're set. Sounds easy.

 

[AzStevenCal]

So once we dramatically improve 4 of the 5 positions on the court for the future, we're set. Sounds easy.

That's okay, I'm sure coaching will hold us back.

Steve

 

[tobiazz]

I think what Babby said is the key. We need to find out what the problem with Lopez is. There is just too much potential there to trade it away without know it can be fixed.

Its kind of like having a really nice car that won't run. You hate the thing. Its worthless just sitting there in the driveway. But you don't just give it away without finding out what it will take to fix it. Maybe the engine is blown and its worthless, but maybe its something relatively inexpensive. You just have to figure it out.

The problem is likely his back which would equate to the frame of a car. When a car's frame is bent, the car is usually considered totaled. Robin Lopez may be totaled.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Lopez has more potential than simply being a backup center. He could be a valuable player off the bench for us.

lol, uh what?

 

[AzStevenCal]

lol, uh what?

lol

Steve

 

[BC867]

Robin's rebound rate this season (0.218 per minute) was better than Brook's (0.169) and just a shade worse than Stoudemire's (0.222).

Brook averaged 35.2 minutes per game.

Amar'e averaged 36.8 minutes per game.

Robin averaged only 14.8 minutes per game.

There are no conclusions to be drawn from a comparison that uneven.

Except that all of them, Brook, Amar'e and Robin, are disappointing rebounders at best for their size.

That's a (-), not a (+) for each of them. And one of them is ours. Right now.

 

[Covert Rain]

Lopez has more potential than simply being a backup center. He could be a valuable player off the bench for us. Work with him this summer, both coaches and doctors. Get him fixed and ready to go. Add a Brandon Knight or Kemba Walker or maybe a promising shooting guard or small forward (with higher ceiling than our present bunch) then maybe a stud pf and we're good.

Proof please?

 

[Errntknght]

The one hopeful thing for Lopez is that he did have a good half a season last year. If he doesn't have a major physical problem or he can overcome it, he may again play at that level. If he hadn't shown that I don't many here would be counseling patience... I know I wouldn't.

 

[Covert Rain]

The one hopeful thing for Lopez is that he did have a good half a season last year. If he doesn't have a major physical problem or he can overcome it, he may again play at that level. If he hadn't shown that I don't many here would be counseling patience... I know I wouldn't.

Good half a season or did he show "potential"? Everybody praised that he was looking better in the 2nd half but I am not sure I would call what he did "good". I would say he was starting to show potential.

His Averages (Pts/Reb):
November (4, 3.5)
December (3.5, 2.4)
January (9.9, 4.9)
Feb (12.9, 7.1)
March (8.5. 5.5)

Playoffs (7.8, 4)

The one thing that stands out the last 3 months and the playoffs is that he could probably give you close 10 points a night but was still a horrible rebounder and questionable defender. Those were the two things that cost us in the WCF. So, I would be happy with Lopez if he could play at that level again but it's still a "backup" level. Which is not necessarily a bad thing because I think you need a good backup.

 

[JCSunsfan]

The problem is likely his back which would equate to the frame of a car. When a car's frame is bent, the car is usually considered totaled. Robin Lopez may be totaled.

Fine. But lets find out for sure.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Good half a season or did he show "potential"? Everybody praised that he was looking better in the 2nd half but I am not sure I would call what he did "good". I would say he was starting to show potential.

His Averages (Pts/Reb):
November (4, 3.5)
December (3.5, 2.4)
January (9.9, 4.9)
Feb (12.9, 7.1)
March (8.5. 5.5)

Playoffs (7.8, 4)

The one thing that stands out the last 3 months and the playoffs is that he could probably give you close 10 points a night but was still a horrible rebounder and questionable defender. Those were the two things that cost us in the WCF. So, I would be happy with Lopez if he could play at that level again but it's still a "backup" level. Which is not necessarily a bad thing because I think you need a good backup.

Actually, I think the one thing that stands out during that 3 month period was how much better this team played. It wasn't all Robin but he did contribute. Our rebounding numbers were up even if Lopez wasn't logging a whole lot of them himself. Also, we showed glimpses of becoming an almost decent defensive team with him out there. He didn't help us much in the playoffs but I don't think we get anywhere need the top half of seeds without Robin.

Steve

 

[slinslin]

Of course he didn't help us much, he only returned against the Lakers from his back injury.

 

[Cheesebeef]

here's my biggest problem with NOT trading Nash this off-season... does that mean we're going to acquiesce to his wanting to play another 2 MORE YEARS after this one and reward him with a contract that will eta up our cap space after this season? if that's the case, this organization is truly ********.

 

[Covert Rain]

Actually, I think the one thing that stands out during that 3 month period was how much better this team played. It wasn't all Robin but he did contribute. Our rebounding numbers were up even if Lopez wasn't logging a whole lot of them himself. Also, we showed glimpses of becoming an almost decent defensive team with him out there. He didn't help us much in the playoffs but I don't think we get anywhere need the top half of seeds without Robin.

Steve

People were screaming from the rooftops to stop playing small ball so often and to utilize a traditional lineup more often. We all were screaming it all season long. I think the Suns benefited from a more traditional lineup and I have to give Robin credit for at least keeping teams honest last season. Those flashes of potential I think is what got everybody excited but the reality is even during that time I didn't think he was starting material.

here's my biggest problem with NOT trading Nash this off-season... does that mean we're going to acquiesce to his wanting to play another 2 MORE YEARS after this one and reward him with a contract that will eta up our cap space after this season? if that's the case, this organization is truly ********.

I am with you. This team has a major major decision coming up with Nash.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I am with you. This team has a major major decision coming up with Nash.

because if they're NOT going to resign him, it's the height of stupidity to keep him for just one more year, rebuild the team around him and then to try and eek back into the playoffs for a season, which would leave us with a team that likely has no idea how to play without him the next year and would lose him for nothing if we're not going to sign him...

in other words... what we freaking did with Amare. seriously, if they knew they weren't going to offer him the guarantee contract (and you have to believe this was always the case since him getting us to the WCFs didn't change their minds) it was beyond moronic not to have dealt him during last season.