NBA to vote on new draft lottery system

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think it is more likely that the current incarnation of the Sixers never contends for anything because Embiid never gets healthy (and seeing as they drafted him knowing he was damaged goods I don't feel much pitty) and they continue their reign as one of the most putrid franchises in the league.

Admittedly very possible. But I think the upside is worth the gamble verses being stuck in 30 win land forever.

 

[pokerface]

Soccer is a growing sport.

So do you want the Suns to start tanking right off the bat since you enjoy tanking so much?

Not necessarily. It's really up to the Suns. Will the young guns improve enough? Will the addition of Jackson make a huge difference right away? Realistically, they probably should tank sooner rather than later because it's not just the suns we have to worry about...the west is just so tough. I'm willing to muffle any tank talk for the first twenty games but they need to impress or we need to pull the plug. We really need a dominant big and the next draft is loaded in that department.

It's not that I enjoy tanking so much but I enjoy progress. Wherever that progress occurs I'm open-minded. If we could have snagged a guy like Porzingis via trade then tanking would be the last thing on my mind.

 

[pokerface]

To me why tanking is an attractive option is you get a player on a rookie contract and conceivably get to keep that player for eight or nine years...maybe longer if the player has an affinity for the franchise. Plus you don't have to give up talent in trade.

The downside is all the losing can be bitter for the franchise and fans BUT if we don't have a realistic shot at the playoffs then it's tolerable IMO.

 

[Carolinacacti]

I have no faith in ping pong balls as the NBA does it. RIGGED.

 

[Mainstreet]

Not necessarily. It's really up to the Suns. Will the young guns improve enough? Will the addition of Jackson make a huge difference right away? Realistically, they probably should tank sooner rather than later because it's not just the suns we have to worry about...the west is just so tough. I'm willing to muffle any tank talk for the first twenty games but they need to impress or we need to pull the plug. We really need a dominant big and the next draft is loaded in that department.

It's not that I enjoy tanking so much but I enjoy progress. Wherever that progress occurs I'm open-minded. If we could have snagged a guy like Porzingis via trade then tanking would be the last thing on my mind.

I don't know. Every loss counts. The Suns shouldn't waste a loss. It could cost them a top 3 pick.

Even if the Suns never win a championship they can always strive to be the tanking champion every season at least until the franchise moves.

The Suns can be the farm team for the Lakers.

Sarcasm on my part but when is enough, enough

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I don't know. Every loss counts. The Suns shouldn't waste a loss. It could cost them a top 3 pick.

Even if the Suns never win a championship they can always strive to be the tanking champion every season at least until the franchise moves.

The Suns can be the farm team for the Lakers.

Sarcasm on my part but when is enough, enough

Okay we get it you hate tanking. What's your solution for building a championship contender? Enough bitching, how about offering alternative solutions?

 

[pokerface]

Okay we get it you hate tanking. What's your solution for building a championship contender? Enough bitching, how about offering alternative solutions?

I was about to post exactly that...thank you!


The anti-tank crowd needs a plan...badly. Then they need to email it to Sarver ASAP because if he tanked once he could tank again. Better send McD a copy too cuz he's in on it!

 

[pokerface]

What suns fans don't realize is how limited our options are. Free agents just laugh at us because every team that wants a star throws the max at them...they get to choose and it's never us ..we aren't contenders. You only can do so much via trade.. especially the suns because we don't want to trade our youth away for some pitiful playoff attempt. So what else does that leave us? THE DRAFT. We don't need to trade for the draft..we lock in a player for years...and we get the player on a cheap rookie contract. What really competes with that? Sure you can get an established star if you want to trade a chunk of our youth away but in the end that's pretty stupid with the brick wall Golden State in our way.

 

[pokerface]

Ouchie they hate tanking but they like the high lotto pick. As a matter of fact they acted screwed it wasn't higher than #4...they felt entitled!

Hey NBA purists, we tanked... remember? We aren't owed. We got our clean hands dirty. This franchise is already tainted.. might as well go all in on the next tank. No more pretending that something is beneath us.

 

[Mainstreet]

Okay we get it you hate tanking. What's your solution for building a championship contender? Enough bitching, how about offering alternative solutions?

Well I'm not a fan of losing so you and Pokerface have that strategy wrapped up. I get you think tanking is the only means to a goal.

I keep my core and hope Devin Booker is the real deal. The same for Jackson. Hopefully Warren, Chriss and Bender blossom. The same for Ulis. We will see about the Suns long term plans for Bledsoe.

I compete for this season and try to make a trade at the trade deadline for a key player.

Then I use the Suns draft choice for 2018 and subsequent drafts to draft BPA and try to build a stable franchise based on winning.

The Suns have had their bites at the apple in the draft so it's not like they haven't been bad. I say let the Suns draft where they naturally fall in the draft.

 

[Mainstreet]

I was about to post exactly that...thank you!


The anti-tank crowd needs a plan...badly. Then they need to email it to Sarver ASAP because if he tanked once he could tank again. Better send McD a copy too cuz he's in on it!

Ouchie they hate tanking but they like the high lotto pick. As a matter of fact they acted screwed it wasn't higher than #4...they felt entitled!

Hey NBA purists, we tanked... remember? We aren't owed. We got our clean hands dirty. This franchise is already tainted.. might as well go all in on the next tank. No more pretending that something is beneath us.

Ouchie they hate tanking but they like the high lotto pick. As a matter of fact they acted screwed it wasn't higher than #4...they felt entitled!

Hey NBA purists, we tanked... remember? We aren't owed. We got our clean hands dirty. This franchise is already tainted.. might as well go all in on the next tank. No more pretending that something is beneath us.

There you are.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Well I'm not a fan of losing so you and Pokerface have that strategy wrapped up. I get you think tanking is the only means to a goal.

I keep my core and hope Devin Booker is the real deal. The same for Jackson. Hopefully Warren, Chriss and Bender blossom. The same for Ulis. We will see about the Suns long term plans for Bledsoe.

I compete for this season and try to make a trade at the trade deadline for a key player.

Then I use the Suns draft choice for 2018 and subsequent drafts to draft BPA and try to build a stable franchise based on winning.

The Suns have had their bites at the apple in the draft so it's not like they haven't been bad. I say let the Suns draft where they naturally fall in the draft.

The problem with that is that other teams, that are likely your equivalent in talent, WILL tank, get a better pick and pass you. Your integrity costs you competitively if everyone is not following the same high road.

 

[pokerface]

The problem with that is that other teams, that are likely your equivalent in talent, WILL tank, get a better pick and pass you. Your integrity costs you competitively if everyone is not following the same high road.

Plus we didn't invent the tank. It's been standard operating procedure for many teams for many years. Also, good teams aren't the ones tanking in general.

 

[Chaplin]

Plus we didn't invent the tank. It's been standard operating procedure for many teams for many years. Also, good teams aren't the ones tanking in general.

No it's not, stop living in some bizarre world where tanking is normal. Almost NOBODY does it. Teams are bad, they lose. Most teams don't make themselves bad on purpose, they just are.

Until this year, the Minnesota Timberwolves and Charlotte Hornets were bad. Are you saying they intentionally tanked? Because that is absolutely not true.

 

[pokerface]

No it's not, stop living in some bizarre world where tanking is normal. Almost NOBODY does it. Teams are bad, they lose. Most teams don't make themselves bad on purpose, they just are.

Until this year, the Minnesota Timberwolves and Charlotte Hornets were bad. Are you saying they intentionally tanked? Because that is absolutely not true.

I didn't say it's normal or not normal. The Spurs tanked for Duncan.. The Cavs tanked for LeBron.. the sixers tank almost yearly. Some teams don't tank...and they will be punished with the teams that do. That's why these new rules are assinine if they go into effect. They won't stop tanking and they will punish teams that don't tank.

 

[Chaplin]

I didn't say it's normal or not normal. The Spurs tanked for Duncan.. The Cavs tanked for LeBron.. the sixers tank almost yearly. Some teams don't tank...and they will be punished with the teams that do. That's why these new rules are assinine if they go into effect. They won't stop tanking and they will punish teams that don't tank.

The Spurs tanked for Duncan, fine, I'll give you that. But there were a lot of mitigating circumstances that year. The Cavs did not tank for Lebron. They were bad. Period. The Sixers don't tank - they are BAD, they would have been a lot better had they not had injuries to Simmons, Embiid and even Okafor.

You have one example, and that example was from 1996! 21 years ago. Up until maybe 2 years ago, nobody tanked, and those teams that tanked for the past couple years don't have much to show for it, including us, but we've only intentionally tanked for one year, MAYBE two.

Intentional tanking wasn't even a thing (even with the Spurs doing it in 1996) until the superteam concept started with Miami and now Golden State.

 

[pokerface]

The Spurs tanked for Duncan, fine, I'll give you that. But there were a lot of mitigating circumstances that year. The Cavs did not tank for Lebron. They were bad. Period. The Sixers don't tank - they are BAD, they would have been a lot better had they not had injuries to Simmons, Embiid and even Okafor.

You have one example, and that example was from 1996! 21 years ago. Up until maybe 2 years ago, nobody tanked, and those teams that tanked for the past couple years don't have much to show for it, including us, but we've only intentionally tanked for one year, MAYBE two.

If teams aren't tanking like you say then why are rules changes being proposed? To punish bad teams?

 

[Chaplin]

If teams aren't tanking like you say then why are rules changes being proposed? To punish bad teams?

Read my edit above. Tanking proposals are happening now because of superteams. Which is a recent phenomenon.

 

[pokerface]

Read my edit above. Tanking proposals are happening now because of superteams. Which is a recent phenomenon.

Uhh...

 

[pokerface]

The Spurs tanked for Duncan, fine, I'll give you that. But there were a lot of mitigating circumstances that year. The Cavs did not tank for Lebron. They were bad. Period. The Sixers don't tank - they are BAD, they would have been a lot better had they not had injuries to Simmons, Embiid and even Okafor.

You have one example, and that example was from 1996! 21 years ago. Up until maybe 2 years ago, nobody tanked, and those teams that tanked for the past couple years don't have much to show for it, including us, but we've only intentionally tanked for one year, MAYBE two.

Intentional tanking wasn't even a thing (even with the Spurs doing it in 1996) until the superteam concept started with Miami and now Golden State.

https://www.cheatsheet.com/stocks/5-nba-teams-that-successfully-tanked-for-the-draft.html/?a=viewall

This article lists the Cavs that 'successfully' tanked for LeBron. Interestingly enough it lists Golden State too so maybe you have something of a point although I don't think the rule changes are meant because of them specifically.

http://news.abs-cbn.com/sports/05/18/17/nba-mavericks-owner-says-team-tanked-late-season-games

https://www.sbnation.com/2014/1/10/5266770/nba-draft-lottery-tanking-gm

http://www.espn.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/40780/when-tankers-tell-the-truth

This article above says NBA teams have been tanking for decades.

https://www.si.com/nba/2017/07/12/nba-tanking-teams-draft-picks-lakers-knicks-bulls

And this article says Philly has been tanking the last four years. It also says the Suns should tank this year.

Chaplin I could go on and on. Maybe you should retract your bizzaro world comment and move on...unless you have articles supporting your case??

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The Spurs tanked for Duncan, fine, I'll give you that. But there were a lot of mitigating circumstances that year. The Cavs did not tank for Lebron. They were bad. Period. The Sixers don't tank - they are BAD, they would have been a lot better had they not had injuries to Simmons, Embiid and even Okafor.

You have one example, and that example was from 1996! 21 years ago. Up until maybe 2 years ago, nobody tanked, and those teams that tanked for the past couple years don't have much to show for it, including us, but we've only intentionally tanked for one year, MAYBE two.

Intentional tanking wasn't even a thing (even with the Spurs doing it in 1996) until the superteam concept started with Miami and now Golden State.

I wish I could ignore a poster just for a particular thread because I would ignore you now for the base fact that you're making stuff up to support your argument.

The sixers are THE POSTER CHILD for the tank. What do you "the process" has been for the past five years??? Hinckie's sole objective was to deliberately tank seasons to get difference makers. He even SAID that.

And the celtics admittedly tanked the same season that the Spurs did in pursuit of Duncan but they ended up with billips instead.

And the lakers tanked JUST LAST YEAR as they sat healthy players just like the Suns did to increase their odds of simply retaining their draft pick.

Tanking is, and has been, real Chap. Your refusal to acknowledge it in this thread is absurd and revisionist history just to win an argument you're epically losing.

 

[pokerface]

Tanking is, and has been, real Chap. Your refusal to acknowledge it in this thread is absurd and revisionist history just to win an argument you're epically losing.

I just supplied links in my edit above Ouchie. Maybe Chaplin should have googled before going off on a tangent but he's running on emotion...again.

 

[Chaplin]

I wish I could ignore a poster just for a particular thread because I would ignore you now for the base fact that you're making stuff up to support your argument.

The sixers are THE POSTER CHILD for the tank. What do you "the process" has been for the past five years??? Hinckie's sole objective was to deliberately tank seasons to get difference makers. He even SAID that.

And the celtics admittedly tanked the same season that the Spurs did in pursuit of Duncan but they ended up with billips instead.

And the lakers tanked JUST LAST YEAR as they sat healthy players just like the Suns did to increase their odds of simply retaining their draft pick.

Tanking is, and has been, real Chap. Your refusal to acknowledge it in this thread is absurd and revisionist history just to win an argument you're epically losing.

The Lakers didn't tank. It's like bad teams don't exist in your world. They were BAD. You don't have to tank if you're bad. We didn't tank 8 of the past 10 years--yet we were still bad.

Bad does not equal tank, and instead of personally attacking me like cowards, maybe you should address the post, not the poster.

And I think Ouchie ignoring me might be the best thing for both of us. I'm certainly not losing any sleep by that--personal attacking on a message board is cowardly.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The Lakers didn't tank. It's like bad teams don't exist in your world. They were BAD. You don't have to tank if you're bad. We didn't tank 8 of the past 10 years--yet we were still bad.

Bad does not equal tank, and instead of personally attacking me like cowards, maybe you should address the post, not the poster.

And I think Ouchie ignoring me might be the best thing for both of us. I'm certainly not losing any sleep by that--personal attacking on a message board is cowardly.

Chap I'm attacking your lies. The Lakers certainly DID tank last year as they traded away players (ahem Lou Williams) that could aid their cause and rested healthy players like the Suns did down the stretch.

I'm NOT claiming that bad teams don't exist. I'm NOT even claiming the Lakers weren't a bad team. But you seem to be claiming they were just bad and not tanking. And that's just not true. They were like the Suns and the sixer before them . . . a bad team that tanked for strategic reasons.

 

[pokerface]

People really got nasty over this tanking thread....and I don't think it was us Ouchie. If we got a little snarky it was out of self defense because ppl got pompous and self rightous and had a gang mentality like they were going to make us cower. We have a right to our opinion and a right to how we feel. If we want the suns to get a better draft pick and are happy about their tanked season then that's it period. We aren't trying to make others feel stupid for their way of thinking. We aren't EVIL or CRAZY. Ouchie and I want the suns to succeed as much as anyone else.

I could call out certain posters publicly for their hypocrisy and transgressions but I'm not going to do that because I value everyone's opinion and I want an active board and I enjoy this board. Just realize Ouchie and I provided a different point of view and gave a few days of reading when it was kinda dead around here. We entertained you guys so I hope you bear that in mind unless you want to kill this board of good discussions.

I just want to add I'm not above anyone as I add spice to this board and I'm out there sometimes. If I offended anyone I apologize but I try hard not to make things personal. My more direct comments have been against a group mentality than any individual.