nbadraft.net Andriuskevicius Deal?

[scotsman13]

Packing on 40 pounds of muscle isn't quite so easy as it sounds. I'm hard-pressed to come up with any example of one of these beanpoles who "needed to get much stronger," did, and became a legitimate NBA player because of it. There's probably a case or two, but the annals of those who never got strong enough far, far outnumber the success stories.

oh i could give you a couple, how about j o'neil, j bender, kemp, etc any of the young (18 and 19 year old players that come into the nba need to add mass). heck david robinson came in at 235, hakeem entered at 240, there are two superstars that have gotten much stronger and did.

 

[George O'Brien]

oh i could give you a couple, how about j o'neil, j bender, kemp, etc any of the young (18 and 19 year old players that come into the nba need to add mass). heck david robinson came in at 235, hakeem entered at 240, there are two superstars that have gotten much stronger and did.

J O'Neil did not do much for about four years. Granted it was on the Blazers, but it did not come over night.

Bender is still a journeyman.

Kemp was not "little" when he came up. He was a lot like Amare but without the desire to improve.

I don't remember how big Robinson was when he came up, but he was definitely bigger than 340.

Hakeem was a super athlete rather than a guy who was picked for his heigth. On a team with Ralph Sampson, he was not even the tallest guy in the lineup.

What does this telll us? Not much. Most tall guys who "need to get stronger" are like Shawn Bradley. They're just not built that way.

f-dog: The idea that the 18-year-old Biedrins (sight unseen) is capable of translating his skills from Euro junior tournaments to the NBA in less than a year is not something I would want to rely on.

Biedrins stock did not take off until he started playing Euro league and put up good numbers against top level competition.

Can we rely on it? Other than Okafor, I'm not sure there is anyone in this draft we can rely on to contribute. But the reason Biedrins is ranked higher than the other Euros is that he is believed to be closer to being ready to play
than the others.

 

[F-Dog]

Packing on 40 pounds of muscle isn't quite so easy as it sounds. I'm hard-pressed to come up with any example of one of these beanpoles who "needed to get much stronger," did, and became a legitimate NBA player because of it. There's probably a case or two, but the annals of those who never got strong enough far, far outnumber the success stories.

I think you're talking about 22-year-olds here, not 18-year-olds.

Arvydas was supposed to be a toothpick when he first started, and now he's pushing 350.


Anyway, if the Suns like him, it's because they think he'll be able to put on useful weight.

 

[F-Dog]

Biedrins stock did not take off until he started playing Euro league and put up good numbers against top level competition.

Can we rely on it? Other than Okafor, I'm not sure there is anyone in this draft we can rely on to contribute. But the reason Biedrins is ranked higher than the other Euros is that he is believed to be closer to being ready to play
than the others.

Biedrins' stock took off when he improved his performance in the minor leagues, then carried that over to the junior tournaments. Kosta Perovic (to give an example), who's been playing against top-level competition, has had his stock decline partly because he's too old to play against juniors.

"closer to being ready to play", in this case, suggests Biedrins might be worth something in two or three years instead of three or four years.

 

[George O'Brien]

Biedrins' stock took off when he improved his performance in the minor leagues, then carried that over to the junior tournaments. Kosta Perovic (to give an example), who's been playing against top-level competition, has had his stock decline partly because he's too old to play against juniors.

"closer to being ready to play", in this case, suggests Biedrins might be worth something in two or three years instead of three or four years.

Actually two to three years is a lot different than three to four years. It is acceptable that a player get mostly garbage minutes his first season. But shshould start producing his second and make a major impact by his third year. Two years of garbage minutes before contributing anything at all is pretty dicy. It means having to worry about re-signing him before he's done anything.

 

[F-Dog]

Actually two to three years is a lot different than three to four years. It is acceptable that a player get mostly garbage minutes his first season. But shshould start producing his second and make a major impact by his third year. Two years of garbage minutes before contributing anything at all is pretty dicy. It means having to worry about re-signing him before he's done anything.

Which player are you arguing against here? AFAIK, the main alternatives are Perovic (2-3 years away, same as Biedrins) and Andriuskevicius (won't start his rookie contract until 2005 at the soonest).

If you're arguing against P.J. Ramos or Podkolzine, then I agree, Biedrins has that advantage over both of them.

 

[George O'Brien]

Which player are you arguing against here? AFAIK, the main alternatives are Perovic (2-3 years away, same as Biedrins) and Andriuskevicius (won't start his rookie contract until 2005 at the soonest).

If you're arguing against P.J. Ramos or Podkolzine, then I agree, Biedrins has that advantage over both of them.

Perovic keeps dropping in the mock drafts I've been watching while Biedrins keeps rising. Both are very young and both need to get stronger. But Perovic reminds me too much of Zydrunas Ilgauskas. nbadraft.tk describes him as:

Positives: Huge with good athleticism for size. Good passing ability for a center. Very unselfish. He has a decent shooting touch and can hit the midrange jumper with relative consistency. A good shotblocker who can alter a lot of shots. Tremendous potential.

Negatives: Still very raw. He does not have a very developed offensive game. His low post skills could use some work. Most of his best attributes are based off his tremendous height and not skill. Needs to get a lot stronger. Could use another 20 pounds before he can compete with NBA players.

Predrag Savatic

He not only will struggle to become an NBA player, he may not be a very good fit for the Suns even then.

 

[Joe Mama]

Perovic keeps dropping in the mock drafts I've been watching while Biedrins keeps rising. Both are very young and both need to get stronger. But Perovic reminds me too much of Zydrunas Ilgauskas. nbadraft.tk describes him as:



He not only will struggle to become an NBA player, he may not be a very good fit for the Suns even then.

I don't know about you, but I would be just fine with someone that plays like Ilgauskus. Frankly, I think you may be putting too much stock into these mock drafts and scouting reports.

Joe Mama

 

[Errntknght]

Joe, "I don't know about you, but I would be just fine with someone that plays like Ilgauskus. Frankly, I think you may be putting too much stock into these mock drafts and scouting reports."

I'm with you about the Ilgauskus comparison but what do we have to go on but those scouting reports? Of course, you have to take the hype with a grain of salt and pay close attention to the negatives. In fact, the ones I read nailed Zarko and Leandro last year.

Zarko - 22, 7', skinny, good shooting range, handles and finishes well in the open floor, weak D. Yuck. (that was my reaction.)

Barbosa - 20?, 6'3, long arms, very swift, funky shot but a scorer, good defender, very raw, no English. (Okay, they exaggerated a bit about his defense but he does get lots of steals.)

Most everyone seems to be confident that the Suns will draft astutely when it comes to overseas players but I'm not sure what they're basing it on - Big Jake, Zarko and Barbosa are, at best, par for the course. Koterovic, their other Euro find, who didn't cost a draft pick, didn't show anything. (I'm not giving them credit or blame for Trybanski, Lampe or Vujanic since they were inclusions in larger trades and not, as far as we know, major targets.)

 

[George O'Brien]

I don't know about you, but I would be just fine with someone that plays like Ilgauskus. Frankly, I think you may be putting too much stock into these mock drafts and scouting reports.

Joe Mama

Rumors are that the Cavs are shopping Ilgauskus because they don't plan to re-sign him after next season. He is a great half court offensive threat and has risen to the point of adequate on defense (Silas benched him early in the season for poor defense). He is not very physical and does not fit the running style that the LeBron Cavs are trying to create.

 

[slinslin]

A better description of Zarko's handles would be shaky.

 

[George O'Brien]

A better description of Zarko's handles would be shaky.

Zarko handled the ball pretty well in the open court and his touch passes are quite impressive. I'm not so sure about his ball handling in the half court, but I'm a lot more concerned about his defense than his ball handling.

 

[Chaplin]

Zarko handled the ball pretty well in the open court and his touch passes are quite impressive. I'm not so sure about his ball handling in the half court, but I'm a lot more concerned about his defense than his ball handling.

I'd be more concerned with his OVERALL game, if I were you. I'm worried that he might not come back from the shock of the Fortson thing.

 

[George O'Brien]

I'd be more concerned with his OVERALL game, if I were you. I'm worried that he might not come back from the shock of the Fortson thing.

I agree. I'm hoping that doing weight training and a successful summer (I hope he does not make the Serbian Olympic team just to sit on the bench) will be enough to bring his confidence back. But it is not a sure thing. The Fortson thing was nightmare and their effects can linger.

BTW, he is supposed to working out with Lampe and Leandro. If he can learn to defense those guys he should be fine.

 

[Chaplin]

I agree. I'm hoping that doing weight training and a successful summer (I hope he does not make the Serbian Olympic team just to sit on the bench) will be enough to bring his confidence back. But it is not a sure thing. The Fortson thing was nightmare and their effects can linger.

Yep, and it is extremely disappointing, because I was really enthusiastic about Z before the injury. Now... not so much.

 

[George O'Brien]

Yep, and it is extremely disappointing, because I was really enthusiastic about Z before the injury. Now... not so much.

About three months ago I said I had reclassified Zarko as a "project". I'm hopeful he will come back right away, but I would not be shocked if Jacobsen became Shawn's primary backup this season - especially if the Suns get Vujanic and another guard.

 

[pokerface]

Yep, and it is extremely disappointing, because I was really enthusiastic about Z before the injury. Now... not so much.

I'm still enthused about Zarko I just think the newness of the NBA...language barrier...and of course the wrist injury may have been too much. The good news though is the wrist injury shouldnt have long term significance (according to reports)

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

The good news though is the wrist injury shouldnt have long term significance (according to reports)

No long term physical effects, but there could easily be the long term mental side effects.

Look at when John Starks took out Marion's legs. He had been so traumitized he would rarel drive to the hoop, and would just settle for a running shot. After 2 years (is that right?) he finally showed some flashes last year of going all the way to the hoop, however I dont think he will ever do it with the consistancy people fell in love with his first seasons.

 

[George O'Brien]

No long term physical effects, but there could easily be the long term mental side effects.

Look at when John Starks took out Marion's legs. He had been so traumitized he would rarel drive to the hoop, and would just settle for a running shot. After 2 years (is that right?) he finally showed some flashes last year of going all the way to the hoop, however I dont think he will ever do it with the consistancy people fell in love with his first seasons.

That's an interesting point. Maybe instead of another coach, the Suns need a team shrink.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Maybe instead of another coach, the Suns need a team shrink.

No kidding. Think about all the mental problems this team has. Marion driving, JJ dissapearing, Voskuhl always looking like he wants to cry.