New injury updates on Len, Gortat and Lee

[sunsfan88]

Gortat is the starter but he's a lame duck so I'd expect Hornacek to play Len with the starters increasingly as the year goes on. Hopefully Gortat will be gone sooner rather than later - to that end I pray he plays great for his national team and generates a demand for his services.

I can't see Caron starting over PJ as the latter is one of our better fast break players and a better defender as well. Heck, Gerald Green may be second in line at the 3 if he works hard and follows instructions, i.e. if he plays like he wants to make a place for himself here. The only incentive to play Caron is if McD thinks trading him is a possibility and wants to showcase him.

Yea but Butler is going to be the veteran leader of this team. Plus he's one of the best shooters we have and he's one of the few players we have that have a good basketball IQ. Our young guys (Goodwin, Len, Bledsoe) need to be playing with guys that have high basketball IQ rather than inexperienced players or players that are idiots like Marshall Brown, Beasley, Green, Plumlee etc.

Marshall
Brown
Green
Beasley
Plumlee

^^that should be our 4th QTR lineup for every game. Also known as our "tank lineup".

 

[Mainstreet]

Yea but Butler is going to be the veteran leader of this team. Plus he's one of the best shooters we have and he's one of the few players we have that have a good basketball IQ. Our young guys (Goodwin, Len, Bledsoe) need to be playing with guys that have high basketball IQ rather than inexperienced players or players that are idiots like Marshall Brown, Beasley, Green, Plumlee etc.

Marshall
Brown
Green
Beasley
Plumlee

^^that should be our 4th QTR lineup for every game. Also known as our "tank lineup".

I think Beasley will be gone in September.

 

[Chaz]

Maybe Len didn't impact the stat sheet because he was too young. No, it's because the guards didn't get him the ball. No, it's because winning was more important, and somehow it was better for the bad guards to be taking shots than the NBA-caliber center. No, it's because Len was being careful not to be selfish, "going with the flow" to the tune of 1.0 assists per game. No, it's because...

A string of alibis like that is a big warning sign. Very few college players have NBA talent. Those that do should be "men among boys" every time they take the court. Every time. Most scouts didn't see that in Len, I didn't see that in Len in the clips I watched, and coaches in his conference didn't see that in Len when they did their all-conference voting.

Why does it have to be only one of these? Each game is different isn't it? Strategies and outcomes vary with the opponent.
I seem to recall that he played well against other big men but struggled against undersized teams that focused on getting the ball out of his hands. Now a more experienced player might then get more assists or put in more work for early position and demand the ball but Len is not an experienced player.

I don't know what Len will be in the NBA most of that will depend on his intelligence, health, and the work he puts in but I don't think there is any denying his talent and size. In my opinion the talent and size is more than worthy of a top pick.

 

[Chaplin]

Channing Frye:

Channing Frye ‏@Channing_Frye 11h
Medical update is that ill know tomorrow.it is or it isn't
Details

Sounds like today might be make or break for his career.

 

[Mainstreet]

Channing Frye:

Sounds like today might be make or break for his career.

Interesting. I missed your post earlier.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

FWIW I think Future Superstar is destroying posters on this board with some of his arguments and making very valid points. It's obvious he actually has watched alot of Len play and understands context and situation whether he ends up being right or wrong.

Some of you are just playing the %'s that in fact Len WON'T be a superstar and making lazy correlations of "we'll he didn't score 20-12" so he isn't going to be very good. Happens in the college to pros transition all the time: from the aftermentioned Hibbert, to Steve Nash, to Russell Westbrook to NFL players like Jimmy Graham, Ziggy Ansah, Dion Jordan, Antonio Gates, to Tom Brady.

Coversely our main man Michael Beasley had amazing numbers in one year at KSU (demanding the ball, putting up shots, taking away from winning) and is a bust.

I'm not saying Len will or will not be an amazing player but from an unbiased perspective Future Superstar sure seems to have a firmer grasp on the situation then the people he is arguing with.

 

[Phrazbit]

I dont think people are saying its out of line to think Len could end up being a good player.

However, what I, and i think others, are saying is drafting him at that slot seems unjustified given his lack of success. And not to expect a high level of success, given his lack of it against much weaker competition. He MIGHT surprise... but it would be a surprise.

And I am not bringing up his stress fracture issues, which to me would have been enough to red flag him entirely.

In my totally impossible to substantiate opinion, what happened with the Len pick is McD fell in love with the Len he scouted for several years overseas, the raw teenager with solid fluid movements, and he loved that kid enough that he ignored the product that emerged in college.

HOPEFULLY McD is right and his college play was an outlier, but IMO it seems unlikely.

When Len is able to play I am not saying I expect him to be horrible, I think he will certainly be a serviceable player, but I personally do not see a high ceiling when I look at the stats or watch him play.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I dont think people are saying its out of line to think Len could end up being a good player.

However, what I, and i think others, are saying is drafting him at that slot seems unjustified given his lack of success. And not to expect a high level of success, given his lack of it against much weaker competition. He MIGHT surprise... but it would be a surprise.

And I am not bringing up his stress fracture issues, which to me would have been enough to red flag him entirely.

In my totally impossible to substantiate opinion, what happened with the Len pick is McD fell in love with the Len he scouted for several years overseas, the raw teenager with solid fluid movements, and he loved that kid enough that he ignored the product that emerged in college.

HOPEFULLY McD is right and his college play was an outlier, but IMO it seems unlikely.

When Len is able to play I am not saying I expect him to be horrible, I think he will certainly be a serviceable player, but I personally do not see a high ceiling when I look at the stats or watch him play.

I'm on the other side. I was never particularly impressed by Len but I didn't watch a lot of him. As a college basketball fan, the arguments made in his favor sound very reasonable to me. I still worry about the injury risk but healthy I expect him to become one of the top players out of this draft. Traditional big men often times do fail to put up big numbers at the college level and it's not like his numbers were horrible. And he's not the first big guy to struggle in college because of poor guard play, in fact, Anthony Bennett suffered from that also this season.

Steve

 

[elindholm]

Some of you are just playing the %'s that in fact Len WON'T be a superstar and making lazy correlations of "we'll he didn't score 20-12" so he isn't going to be very good. Happens in the college to pros transition all the time: from the aftermentioned Hibbert, to Steve Nash, to Russell Westbrook to NFL players like Jimmy Graham, Ziggy Ansah, Dion Jordan, Antonio Gates, to Tom Brady.

I'm not saying Len will or will not be an amazing player but from an unbiased perspective Future Superstar sure seems to have a firmer grasp on the situation then the people he is arguing with.

Thank goodness we have someone who can compare Len to Tom Brady with a straight face around to tell us what an "unbiased perspective" is.

 

[Errntknght]

I dont think people are saying its out of line to think Len could end up being a good player.

However, what I, and i think others, are saying is drafting him at that slot seems unjustified given his lack of success. And not to expect a high level of success, given his lack of it against much weaker competition. He MIGHT surprise... but it would be a surprise.

And I am not bringing up his stress fracture issues, which to me would have been enough to red flag him entirely.

In my totally impossible to substantiate opinion, what happened with the Len pick is McD fell in love with the Len he scouted for several years overseas, the raw teenager with solid fluid movements, and he loved that kid enough that he ignored the product that emerged in college.

HOPEFULLY McD is right and his college play was an outlier, but IMO it seems unlikely.

When Len is able to play I am not saying I expect him to be horrible, I think he will certainly be a serviceable player, but I personally do not see a high ceiling when I look at the stats or watch him play.

I have a slightly different take on it. Thankfully other teams were so concerned with Len's issues that he fell to us at number five. Also thankfully, McDonaugh had the Suns training staff to consult about his stress fractures and had enough knowledge of Len abilities to take him with our first pick.

Years from now when people look back at the 2013 draft they are going to say it was a very weak draft for 29 teams but it was a great draft for the Phoenix Suns who plucked the only two really good players at the 5th and 29th slots!

 

[Superbone]

Years from now when people look back at the 2013 draft they are going to say it was a very weak draft for 29 teams but it was a great draft for the Phoenix Suns who plucked the only two really good players at the 5th and 29th slots!

I hope so!

 

[JCSunsfan]

Thank goodness we have someone who can compare Len to Tom Brady with a straight face around to tell us what an "unbiased perspective" is.

Cmon Eric. That was only a very small part of his whole post, and his point was that it is possible for the players to have better pro careers than college careers. In that sense, its a valid example, not comparison.

 

[elindholm]

Cmon Eric. That was only a very small part of his whole post, and his point was that it is possible for the players to have better pro careers than college careers.

Yes, but most of his examples were NFL players, which are irrelevant to the discussion. I don't follow the NFL, but I know that it's rare in the NBA for a lackluster college player to have a stellar NBA career. It happens occasionally, but it's rare. The percentages say that Len will be a bust. That's not to say that his destiny is determined, but if he succeeds, he'll be beating the odds. And the idea that a Maryland fan who joined the board just to sing Len's praises is "unbiased" is, well, let's just say it stretches the bounds of credibility a bit.

 

[Neo]

Happens in the college to pros transition all the time: from the aftermentioned Hibbert, to Steve Nash, to Russell Westbrook to NFL players like Jimmy Graham, Ziggy Ansah, Dion Jordan, Antonio Gates, to Tom Brady.


I'm not saying Len will or will not be an amazing player but from an unbiased perspective Future Superstar sure seems to have a firmer grasp on the situation then the people he is arguing with.

The comparison has its flaws, but the Ziggy Ansah is probably the best comparison of the players mentioned above. That is because both Len and Ansah have never done anything in a regular season professional game and we don't know whether or not they will live up to the expectations that come from being drafted so high.

People who spent a lot more time than anyone on this board watching and analyzing Len thought that Len had the physical tools to be a great NBA player. But, he has not done enough to show that he is remotely close to reaching that potential. Also there are big doubts regarding whether his body can handle the rigors of the NBA game.

At this point in time he could be the next Sam Bowie (always hurt), Darko Milicic (never developed his game), or Roy Hibbert (much better pro than college player). The odds are against virtually every draft becoming a superstar. Len's health history and unimpressive college stats seem to indicate that the deck is stacked against him.

I have not seen anything to indicate to me that he is much more physically gifted than Big Jake was, but I did not watch much of Maryland basketball. I'll be pleasantly suprised if Len turns into an all-star caliber center, but I do like pleasant suprises.

 

[Superbone]

I have not seen anything to indicate to me that he is much more physically gifted than Big Jake was, but I did not watch much of Maryland basketball. I'll be pleasantly suprised if Len turns into an all-star caliber center, but I do like pleasant suprises.

That information can be quickly gleaned watching a Len highlight video. Tsakalidis was big. Len is an athlete.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Yes, but most of his examples were NFL players, which are irrelevant to the discussion. I don't follow the NFL, but I know that it's rare in the NBA for a lackluster college player to have a stellar NBA career. It happens occasionally, but it's rare. The percentages say that Len will be a bust. That's not to say that his destiny is determined, but if he succeeds, he'll be beating the odds. And the idea that a Maryland fan who joined the board just to sing Len's praises is "unbiased" is, well, let's just say it stretches the bounds of credibility a bit.

I do it find it funny that avowed Maryland fan is unbiased...as opposed to the fans who came into Len without having a previous dog in the fight.

I mean, how many times have we seen ASU/UA fans completely overrate their own players simply because they played on their favorite team?

 

[Neo]

That information can be quickly gleaned watching a Len highlight video. Tsakalidis was big. Len is an athlete.

Darn it. I was caught exaggerating on the Internet. I have to admit that you are right. Len appears to be much more athletically gifted than Big Jake. I hope that athletism is not greatly diminished by the foot and ankle problems.

Still, I don't think that he is as athletic as Kwame Brown. Clearly he is going to need more than a good frame and athletism to succeed in the league.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Darn it. I was caught exaggerating on the Internet. I have to admit that you are right. Len appears to be much more athletically gifted than Big Jake. I hope that athletism is not greatly diminished by the foot and ankle problems.

Still, I don't think that he is as athletic as Kwame Brown. Clearly he is going to need more than a good frame and athletism to succeed in the league.

No matter how athletic you are, you still need hands.

Steve

 

[Superbone]

No matter how athletic you are, you still need hands.

Steve

Ha! Exactly what I was thinking when it comes to Kwame Brown.

 

[FutureSuperstar]

I do it find it funny that avowed Maryland fan is unbiased...as opposed to the fans who came into Len without having a previous dog in the fight.

I mean, how many times have we seen ASU/UA fans completely overrate their own players simply because they played on their favorite team?

I may be biased (Although I don't think so), but who better to evaluate Len's game than someone who watched him all of last year?

People who did not follow Len last year don't realize how much better he was in his 2nd year vs. 1st year ... That kind of drastic improvement for a 7 footer is unheard of in College Basketball - I have no doubt if he stays healthy, he'll continue to improve

Right now, he's already a serviceable Big (Catch and finish guy, rebounder, shot-blocker) and in 5 years, the sky's the limit for him if he works at it

 

[Chaplin]

Channing just tweeted a cryptic message:

Channing Frye ‏@Channing_Frye 2h
#yep! http://instagram.com/p/do6GCUrXfe/

The link is just a picture of him in a Suns uniform.

 

[BC867]

Channing just tweeted a cryptic message:

Channing Frye ‏@Channing_Frye 2h
#yep! http://instagram.com/p/do6GCUrXfe/

The link is just a picture of him in a Suns uniform.

McDonough is optimistic that Frye will return. It sounds like the final decision is about to happen. If he is activated, he will be the oldest player on the Suns at the age of 30.

"We're optimistic that he'll be with us and playing," McDonough said of Frye. "Channing wants to play and the results he has gotten have been good. Obviously, we just want a consensus."

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/7/...-phoenix-suns-heart-optimistic-2013-14-season

 

[sunsfan88]

Why did Dudley congratulate him on Twitter? I think Frye texted him or something saying he's coming back.

 

[Superbone]

Len cleared to practice:

https://twitter.com/alexlen/status/377992937361399808

 

[Mainstreet]

I may be the only one on the board who thinks this, but if Lens' ankles are really healed (not a chronic problem), I'm really excited about his future with the Suns. IMO, he would solidify their future at center.

Start with a talented big man in Len, add a guard (Bledoe) that might turn out to be a star, sign a key FA and... Yeehaw!

We can ride this to the NBA Finals in a few years.