Off Season Consideration

[elindholm]

If what you say is true, then why is he consistently listed as the #1 or #2 pick in this loaded draft?

He isn't. Ayton is consistently #1 and the rest get shuffled around to generate page loads. NBAdraft.net has Doncic at #6 right now. I'm sure he'll go up and down some more, for no reason other than novelty.

Either you're wrong (or partially wrong) or you're right and most other people, including those that report and watch basketball as a career, are totally wrong.

Well gee, the experts have never been wrong before, but maybe there's a first time for everything. That's sarcasm, by the way.

An interesting exercise would be to try to look for patterns in the over-rating of previous prospects who have turned out to be busts. Then it would be possible to make an educated guess as to whether the same mistake might be happening again. Oh, wait, some of us have already done that.

 

[JCSunsfan]

My favorite example:

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The defender is Victor Claver, who played in three seasons for the Portland Trailblazers.

OK. Maybe its just me. Why is it such a big deal when a defender falls down? In maybe, 1 out of 5 or 6 of these, there was a genuinely good move. The rest are just incidents where the defender tries too hard or slips or something.

 

[Cheesebeef]

OK. Maybe its just me. Why is it such a big deal when a defender falls down? In maybe, 1 out of 5 or 6 of these, there was a genuinely good move. The rest are just incidents where the defender tries to hard or slips or something.

+ 1

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

OK. Maybe its just me. Why is it such a big deal when a defender falls down? In maybe, 1 out of 5 or 6 of these, there was a genuinely good move. The rest are just incidents where the defender tries to hard or slips or something.

It's impressive if the move that put them down was impressive. Otherwise like you said it's just a slip or poor footwork by the defender.

 

[elindholm]

It's impressive if the move that put them down was impressive. Otherwise like you said it's just a slip or poor footwork by the defender.

Which is what makes the broadcaster's throes of ecstasy all the more comic.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I was at a Suns game years ago where Stephon Marbury went around Yao Ming and everyone oohed and aahed over it. But Yao just fell down. There was no special move. It mystified me.

What was cool was I was looking straight at it from Bill Bidwill's family suite at the arena. I have a family member who worked in the Cards business office (figuring salary cap #s and such). But enough of my personal bragging.

 

[Chaplin]

He isn't. Ayton is consistently #1 and the rest get shuffled around to generate page loads. NBAdraft.net has Doncic at #6 right now. I'm sure he'll go up and down some more, for no reason other than novelty.



Well gee, the experts have never been wrong before, but maybe there's a first time for everything. That's sarcasm, by the way.

An interesting exercise would be to try to look for patterns in the over-rating of previous prospects who have turned out to be busts. Then it would be possible to make an educated guess as to whether the same mistake might be happening again. Oh, wait, some of us have already done that.

Ayton is consistently #1 RIGHT NOW because we have the worst record. When Memphis was in that spot, Doncic was regularly listed as #1. I posted mock drafts in another thread a couple days ago, my guess is you never saw those. To say that Doncic isn't #1 or #2 based on you looking at just NBADraft.net is comical and looks like disagreeing just because you're the designated poster who has to disagree with everybody. Instead you use sarcasm to hide the fact that you are attacking. Not sure why you feel you need to do that.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

He isn't. Ayton is consistently #1 and the rest get shuffled around to generate page loads. NBAdraft.net has Doncic at #6 right now. I'm sure he'll go up and down some more, for no reason other than novelty.



Well gee, the experts have never been wrong before, but maybe there's a first time for everything. That's sarcasm, by the way.

An interesting exercise would be to try to look for patterns in the over-rating of previous prospects who have turned out to be busts. Then it would be possible to make an educated guess as to whether the same mistake might be happening again. Oh, wait, some of us have already done that.

It's been up and down. Just a couple weeks ago Doncic was still #1 on a lot of mock drafts. Right now it appears to be Ayton, but Doncic still has plenty of time and games left to possibly move back up the boards.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Mocks are all over the place. Steve Kyler's most recent mock has Trae Young as the, believe it or not, FOURTH pg taken (if you count Doncic as a pg), going 12th. He also has Collin Sexton as the 4th pick in the entire draft.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/nba-daily-2018-nba-mock-draft-3-20-18/

 

[DevonCardsFan]

If what you say is true, then why is he consistently listed as the #1 or #2 pick in this loaded draft? Either you're wrong (or partially wrong) or you're right and most other people, including those that report and watch basketball as a career, are totally wrong.

There wrong all the time, I wasn't in love with Fultz either, or Bender etc. I think people tend to romanticize Euro players. First off he is more polished, which means he is less raw and closer to his ceiling. I loved Dragic when they took him, he had a nasty streak as a Euro. Look at Darko Milicic in a stacked draft as well got over hyped and went 2. We have our own soft sensation in Bender. First off you cant make up for lack of Athletecism, Strength and speed in the NBA, it won't work. 2nd it really won't work as a Tweener, were does he fit on the Suns. He is a major liability at defense, Suns have Booker Warren and Jackson, I dont see how he fits in the Suns. Hes not going to run point. Suns need a 4/5 and a PG.

Jackson/ Bagley can be stretch 4s something the suns need

Ayton at one at a 5, I would even prefer Porter over Doncic.


Jackson needs to be the pick, he is exactly what the Suns need

 

[DevonCardsFan]

I’ve admittedly always been an advocate of potential. But at present all that potential (Len, bender, chriss) isn’t paying any dividends. It makes me leery of jjj and bamba. Why hasn’t jjj earned minutes if he’s so incredibly versatile? And why can’t bamba play sustained focused minutes and expand his offense? My biggest fear is coming outta this draft with the newest Hasheem Thabeet.

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2018/2/6/16976438/jaren-jackson-jr-best-big-man-draft



JJJ game is easily transferable to the NBA, He can knock the 3 down as a stretch big, he can block shots and has solid D. Here is an article JJJ is the truth fits what the Suns need, has a skillset for for translating to the NBA. Is will be way more effective than weak as slow soft Doncic with no position

 

[Chris_Sanders]

He isn't. Ayton is consistently #1 and the rest get shuffled around to generate page loads. NBAdraft.net has Doncic at #6 right now. I'm sure he'll go up and down some more, for no reason other than novelty.



Well gee, the experts have never been wrong before, but maybe there's a first time for everything. That's sarcasm, by the way.

An interesting exercise would be to try to look for patterns in the over-rating of previous prospects who have turned out to be busts. Then it would be possible to make an educated guess as to whether the same mistake might be happening again. Oh, wait, some of us have already done that.

Draft Express had him at #1 until last week. But then Ayton had another bad game so he might be back to #1 again.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

There wrong all the time, I wasn't in love with Fultz either, or Bender etc. I think people tend to romanticize Euro players. First off he is more polished, which means he is less raw and closer to his ceiling. I loved Dragic when they took him, he had a nasty streak as a Euro. Look at Darko Milicic in a stacked draft as well got over hyped and went 2. We have our own soft sensation in Bender. First off you cant make up for lack of Athletecism, Strength and speed in the NBA, it won't work. 2nd it really won't work as a Tweener, were does he fit on the Suns. He is a major liability at defense, Suns have Booker Warren and Jackson, I dont see how he fits in the Suns. Hes not going to run point. Suns need a 4/5 and a PG.

Jackson/ Bagley can be stretch 4s something the suns need

Ayton at one at a 5, I would even prefer Porter over Doncic.


Jackson needs to be the pick, he is exactly what the Suns need

Not sure I understand your use of Fultz as an example. I feel pretty confident he is still going to be pretty darn good. This is just what Philly does. They draft a guy and that guy missed his first season and then that player comes out nd wins rookie of the year the next year.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2018/2/6/16976438/jaren-jackson-jr-best-big-man-draft



JJJ game is easily transferable to the NBA, He can knock the 3 down as a stretch big, he can block shots and has solid D. Here is an article JJJ is the truth fits what the Suns need, has a skillset for for translating to the NBA. Is will be way more effective than weak as slow soft Doncic with no position

When you are touting a guy who had 2 points against Syracuse

 

[DevonCardsFan]

When you are touting a guy who had 2 points against Syracuse

When does what a guy does as a 18 year old translate to his NBA potential. It's about ceiling and how they translate to the NBA, you will see a real gem after with me come draft time. While you guys are salivating for Doncic lol

 

[DevonCardsFan]

Not sure I understand your use of Fultz as an example. I feel pretty confident he is still going to be pretty darn good. This is just what Philly does. They draft a guy and that guy missed his first season and then that player comes out nd wins rookie of the year the next year.

Fultz is gonna be a major bust.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

When does what a guy does as a 18 year old translate to his NBA potential. It's about ceiling and how they translate to the NBA, you will see a real gem after with me come draft time. While you guys are salivating for Doncic lol

I just don't get the Doncic hate. He is one of the best players in the 2nd best league in the world at 18 and still has plenty of room for improvement. That to me seems like both a high ceiling and high floor player. JJJ is strictly a high ceiling guy, but with an extremely low floor.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Fultz is gonna be a major bust.

Lets revisit this at this time next year. I think you are extremely wrong on this one.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Mocks are all over the place. Steve Kyler's most recent mock has Trae Young as the, believe it or not, FOURTH pg taken (if you count Doncic as a pg), going 12th. He also has Collin Sexton as the 4th pick in the entire draft.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/nba-daily-2018-nba-mock-draft-3-20-18/

Pretty easy to move to 11 or 12 with 15 and 16.

I hope that holds up.

 

[DevonCardsFan]

I just don't get the Doncic hate. He is one of the best players in the 2nd best league in the world at 18 and still has plenty of room for improvement. That to me seems like both a high ceiling and high floor player. JJJ is strictly a high ceiling guy, but with an extremely low floor.

A stretch 4 with shot blocking and rebounding will translate a lot easier to the NBA than Doncic game will. I just said why I have Doncic hate, hes a lot more polished, and doesnt have a position or athleticism for the NBA

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I just don't get the Doncic hate. He is one of the best players in the 2nd best league in the world at 18 and still has plenty of room for improvement. That to me seems like both a high ceiling and high floor player. JJJ is strictly a high ceiling guy, but with an extremely low floor.

Because he isn't on TV. Because people don't believe the Euroleague is any good. Because some high profile European prospects have busted.

Then there is this.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20668236/there-never-nba-draft-prospect-slovenia-luka-doncic



Doncic's production given his age is unprecedented. Playing half the season as a 17-year-old, he was the only player in the Euroleague last season to average at least 15 points, eight rebounds and eight assists per 40 minutes. Although he struggled in the Euroleague final four, Doncic carried a strong season into Eurobasket play, producing like a 10-year veteran for a Slovenian team that shocked all of Europe on its way to a gold medal win over Serbia.

Kristaps Porzingis and Latvia. Two days later the 18-year-old went for 11 points, 12 rebounds and eight assists in an upset win over Spain in the semifinals, shining in virtually every aspect against the likes of Rubio, Marc and Pau Gasol and an extremely talented Spain team. He went down with a sprained ankle injury in the third quarter of the gold medal match, but Doncic's entire nine-game Eurobasket performance will go down as one of the most impressive runs from a prospect in the event's history. Playing alongside one of his childhood idols in Dragic, Doncic regularly craved the spotlight, delivering late in games and playing with little worry in crunch time.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

A stretch 4 with shot blocking and rebounding will translate a lot easier to the NBA than Doncic game will. I just said why I have Doncic hate, hes a lot more polished, and doesnt have a position or athleticism for the NBA

He is a PG and that will be his position in the NBA. He is a lot more polished than these other guys, but that doesn't mean that he doesn't still have a lot of room to grow.

 

[DevonCardsFan]

He is a PG and that will be his position in the NBA. He is a lot more polished than these other guys, but that doesn't mean that he doesn't still have a lot of room to grow.

Hes a point forward like Walt Williams, hes 6'8 230

He is a PG and that will be his position in the NBA. He is a lot more polished than these other guys, but that doesn't mean that he doesn't still have a lot of room to grow.

Hes a 6'8 Point forward, like what Walt Williams was. He wont be able to transation back on PGs and will get burned. Hes gonna play Point Forward and the Suns have Jackson, Warren, Booker on the wings already. Suns need a 4/5 or a true PG. Doncic is not what the Suns need.

Give me Ayton, Jackson/Bagley even Porter over Doncic. Atleast Porter could play some stretch 4 when needed.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Hes a point forward like Walt Williams, hes 6'8 230



Hes a 6'8 Point forward, like what Walt Williams was. He wont be able to transation back on PGs and will get burned. Hes gonna play Point Forward and the Suns have Jackson, Warren, Booker on the wings already. Suns need a 4/5 or a true PG. Doncic is not what the Suns need.

Give me Ayton, Jackson/Bagley even Porter over Doncic. Atleast Porter could play some stretch 4 when needed.

They need someone to run the offense. Booker and Jackson can take the quicker opposing players.

I would take Ayton over Doncic as I think he has a good chance to be the better player, but I just don't think I see anyone else having a better career than Doncic. This team is not in a position to pass on the better prospect to fill a need. They have trades and free agency to focus on filling holes on the team.

 

[DevonCardsFan]

They need someone to run the offense. Booker and Jackson can take the quicker opposing players.

I would take Ayton over Doncic as I think he has a good chance to be the better player, but I just don't think I see anyone else having a better career than Doncic. This team is not in a position to pass on the better prospect to fill a need. They have trades and free agency to focus on filling holes on the team.

A Big is a million times harder to replace than a Wing, especially to slow for PG and not atheletic enough at 3. This draft is touted as great because all of the available bigs and Doncic. I dont want to be the team that misses out on big for an over rates Euro Wing player. You guys always fall for the great white hype every year LOL. Probably wearing your Bender jersey as you type!