Offensive Line: Post-Cooper Trade

[kerouac9]

I feel like you're trying to convince me that the sky is purple and grass is red. Arguing against facts.

Him practicing left and right tackle means nothing. This is explanatory fiction.

If you continue to believe this, I really cannot help you anymore.

I'm waiting for you to deploy a single fact in this conversation. I've deployed a ton of them.

 

[Snakester]

Right now we need a center and right tackle. If we draft Ryan Kelley we only need a RT. Watford didn't show enough that he could be a good RT but that he could do a decent job as a backup if needed. His best spot is still at guard. DJ Humphries was really bad in the preseason and didn't look like a fourth rounder let alone a first round talent. I hope as much as anybody that Humphries starts and plays well but there is no way I go into this season counting on him to start. I want a backup plan that involves a free agent to compete for the job.

 

[TJ]

I'm waiting for you to deploy a single fact in this conversation. I've deployed a ton of them.

You mean the ones I stated a hundred times that the plan was to redshirt DJ from Day one, and that the plan never changed throughout the season, as per coaches and analysts?

Your facts are merely your own opinions, and they hold less merit the more you present them as facts.

Stop talking and listen. Eventually, you'll hear and hopefully understand the facts.

 

[kerouac9]

You mean the ones I stated a hundred times that the plan was to redshirt DJ from Day one, and that the plan never changed throughout the season, as per coaches and analysts?

Your facts are merely your own opinions, and they hold less merit the more you present them as facts.

That isn't a "Fact" — it's a story that, as pointed out by Chopper on a thread I don't remember, doesn't align with any of the information that was contemporary with the reporting. It's all well and good for the coaching staff to say that now, but it doesn't align with what they were saying last April, May, and August.

That Humphries was inactive all season isn't an opinion — it's a fact.
That Watford and Sowell were active all season isn't an opinion — they're facts.
That Humphries wasn't practicing at RT during the season isn't an opinion — it's a fact.

You can dismiss the analysis of those facts, but you can't dismiss that they're facts, unless you're living in a fantasyland.

 

[TJ]

What do you base your assessment that Hump is better than Watford?

Same base as your assessment that Watford is better than DJ -- I don't know what DJ will look like once he's out there, just like you. He could be better, or he could be worse, but the coaches seemed convinced at the moment that DJ is the guy.

The Watford/Sowell thing makes no sense because the intention was never for DJ to play a down this season, so why activate him at all?

 

[TJ]

That isn't a "Fact" — it's a story that, as pointed out by Chopper on a thread I don't remember, doesn't align with any of the information that was contemporary with the reporting. It's all well and good for the coaching staff to say that now, but it doesn't align with what they were saying last April, May, and August.



That Humphries was inactive all season isn't an opinion — it's a fact.

That Watford and Sowell were active all season isn't an opinion — they're facts.

That Humphries wasn't practicing at RT during the season isn't an opinion — it's a fact.



You can dismiss the analysis of those facts, but you can't dismiss that they're facts, unless you're living in a fantasyland.

So when the analysts and coaches say, back in May, that this is a redshirt season for DJ, that isn't a fact?

I feel like you don't understand what "redshirt" means.

 

[kerouac9]

So when the analysts and coaches say, back in May, that this is a redshirt season for DJ, that isn't a fact?

I feel like you don't understand what "redshirt" means.

Link?

 

[PDXChris]

Find one person who is saying that. This is B.S. and beyond you.

And you have no evidence to say that Humphries would be the starter if Massie had gone down with injury. I have evidence that Humphries wouldn't be the starter — that Earl Watford was the starter when Massie was suspended to begin the year.

You may not have said it, but several poster have used the actual word "bust" with him. Beyond that, I have no idea who will start RT at this point and to claim one is better than the other at this point in time or who will be week 1 on the regular season is all speculation until we see proof or BASK makes a statement.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

DJ had third round grade by many scouts...it seems they were correct...

 

[PDXChris]

Link?

Stuff I found, which can be interpreted how ever you want.

A few weeks ago.

Coach Bruce Arians said first-round pick OT D.J. Humphries was ready to play in the second half of his rookie season.

Arians said he "wouldn't have hesitated" to play Humphries "had he been needed" down the stretch. The Cardinals felt comfortable with Bobby Massie at right tackle, however. As Massie is now ticketed for free agency -- where he seems likely to get overpaid -- Humphries figures to be groomed as a starter this spring. Humphries was the 24th overall pick in last April's draft.

http://www.rotoworld.com/recent/nfl/10401/dj-humphries

Last Year

There are high hopes for Arizona Cardinals first round pick D.J. Humphries. But his head coach isn't singing him praises just yet.

Bruce Arians indicated Humphries would get to compete for the starting right tackle job with Bobby Massie. He also said a perfect world would have Humphries be a backup to two good tackles this season.

Now Arians is publicly saying Humphries has a ways to go.

http://www.revengeofthebirds.com/20...ans-dj-humphries-needs-to-mature-a-little-bit

“He has all the athletic ability, it’s just a matter of getting a higher energy level. He’s used to beating guys on just his athletic ability and now everybody is good and if your motor’s not running hot you’re going to get beat.”

When speaking on the offensive line, Arians said they will give guard Earl Watford a full week at right tackle and Humphries at left tackle. Arians wants “some position flexibility” with Humphries since he has not played on that side since he arrived in Arizona.

“Personally, I played left (tackle) my whole life and this is the first time I ever played right (tackle), but I am starting to adjust and getting real comfortable,” Humphries said last week when he appeared on Burns & Gambo on Arizona Sports 98.7 FM.

After the Week 2 preseason loss to the San Diego Chargers, Arians said that Humphries displayed “bad technique and bad effort.”

Arians couldn’t shed much light on the Bobby Massie situation on Monday, but re-affirmed his position on the team when he comes back to the team.

“Once we find out what the situation is he’ll be our right tackle.”

http://arizonasports.com/story/345144/bruce-arians-d-j-humphries-motor-has-to-step-up/

 

[PDXChris]

DJ had third round grade by many scouts...it seems they were correct...

Based on?

 

[kerouac9]

Stuff I found, which can be interpreted how ever you want.

A few weeks ago.

Thanks for doing the research. It doesn't look like there's any factual basis for the claim that the published intention last May was for Humphries to be inactive for 20 weeks.

Arians language w/r/t Humphries is today almost identical to his language w/r/t Logan Thomas when people were wondering why we started Ryan Lindley, FWIW.

 

[Zeno]

Same base as your assessment that Watford is better than DJ -- I don't know what DJ will look like once he's out there, just like you. He could be better, or he could be worse, but the coaches seemed convinced at the moment that DJ is the guy.

The Watford/Sowell thing makes no sense because the intention was never for DJ to play a down this season, so why activate him at all?

How do we know that was never their intention--they sure didn't sound like that after the draft or during training camp? I have to believe the coaching staff expected more out of their first round pick than sit inactive for 18 games.

Watford looked better going against real NFL players than Humphries did in preseason going against guys who either are out of the league or on practice squads, that isn't even debatable. We can all HOPE Humphries improved with coaching but until we see it that is all we can do--hope.

 

[GuernseyCard]

That isn't a "Fact" — it's a story that, as pointed out by Chopper on a thread I don't remember, doesn't align with any of the information that was contemporary with the reporting. It's all well and good for the coaching staff to say that now, but it doesn't align with what they were saying last April, May, and August.

That Humphries was inactive all season isn't an opinion — it's a fact.
That Watford and Sowell were active all season isn't an opinion — they're facts.
That Humphries wasn't practicing at RT during the season isn't an opinion — it's a fact.

You can dismiss the analysis of those facts, but you can't dismiss that they're facts, unless you're living in a fantasyland.

LINK to this fact?

 

[Ohcrap75]

If you are drafted in 1st rd. and can't even suit up sans injury, that is a big problem. I feel like we are getting the same song and dance we got with Cooper. BA will say he is coming along great until about week 9, then call him out, then trade him within a year.

I just feel like people are declaring him a bad player with such a small sample size. Even if he was terrible last year, does that mean that he can't improve? The same song and dance as Cooper? Can we at least wait to see the dance before we make his career assessment?

 

[kerouac9]

LINK to this fact?

He said it in the Combine interviews, IIRC.

 

[Stout]

Thanks for doing the research. It doesn't look like there's any factual basis for the claim that the published intention last May was for Humphries to be inactive for 20 weeks.

Arians language w/r/t Humphries is today almost identical to his language w/r/t Logan Thomas when people were wondering why we started Ryan Lindley, FWIW.

Exactamundo. Revisionist history at its finest.

I just feel like people are declaring him a bad player with such a small sample size. Even if he was terrible last year, does that mean that he can't improve? The same song and dance as Cooper? Can we at least wait to see the dance before we make his career assessment?

Not necessarily a bad player, no, but we can have zero idea if he WILL be good. It's the people slating him as an immediate starter, claiming he'll be a solid player, a long-term pro-bowler, with absolutely zero basis in any kind of factual analysis, that set us off. I mean, that's just pure, unadulterated homerism.

 

[TJ]

Link?

Mayock mentioned it the day before the draft (if you remember, he was the only one who predicted the DJ pick), and reiterated the team's intentions after the pick was made.

 

[Ohcrap75]

Exactamundo. Revisionist history at its finest.



Not necessarily a bad player, no, but we can have zero idea if he WILL be good. It's the people slating him as an immediate starter, claiming he'll be a solid player, a long-term pro-bowler, with absolutely zero basis in any kind of factual analysis, that set us off. I mean, that's just pure, unadulterated homerism.

I think that anyone claiming to know that he will be a Pro Bowler are just guessing just like anyone saying that they know he won't be. I am fine with BASK penciling him in as a starter because I realize that they have more information than I do and they are smarter than I am, so I trust them. But hey, I as far as I know I am talking to a person that watches Humphries everyday and is more than qualified to be an NFL GM and would rather argue on a message board.

 

[TJ]

How do we know that was never their intention--they sure didn't sound like that after the draft or during training camp? I have to believe the coaching staff expected more out of their first round pick than sit inactive for 18 games.

Watford looked better going against real NFL players than Humphries did in preseason going against guys who either are out of the league or on practice squads, that isn't even debatable. We can all HOPE Humphries improved with coaching but until we see it that is all we can do--hope.

The thing about DJ is he only played two full seasons at Florida, so his level of experience even in college was substandard. What many felt was that he came out too early, but the physical talents were there (he was the #1 or #2 ranked tackle in the Nation the year he committed to UF). Additionally, Florida's offensive coaching staff was awful at the time, so he really has not had very good coaching since high school.

That said, when people mentioned that DJ was going to need a year to learn the pro game, it wasn't BS. He would have failed miserably had he touched the field during a meaningful down last season. If the plan was to redshirt DJ, him being inactive means nothing w/r/t placement on the depth chart, as those who redshirt in college are not listed on the two-deep.

 

[Ohcrap75]

Right now we need a center and right tackle. If we draft Ryan Kelley we only need a RT. Watford didn't show enough that he could be a good RT but that he could do a decent job as a backup if needed. His best spot is still at guard. DJ Humphries was really bad in the preseason and didn't look like a fourth rounder let alone a first round talent. I hope as much as anybody that Humphries starts and plays well but there is no way I go into this season counting on him to start. I want a backup plan that involves a free agent to compete for the job.

So you would be fine with drafting Ryan Kelly and have him start straight out of college with Shipley backing him up, but your not fine with Humphries starting and Watford backing him up? I think that Watford and Shipley are both below average starter but solid backups in a pinch. So I just don't understand how some can have so much more faith in a rookie than Humphries.

 

[Ed Burmila]

Nobody knows if Humphries is going to pan out or not, but it's pretty obvious (remember the fluff piece from Urban on the team website the day after the season ended about him stepping up next year) that he's going to be the starter.

If he fails, then it's equally clear based on his history that BA will bench him. But given how tight against the cap we are right now, nobody making over the vet minimum is going to be brought in to replace him.

You guys can argue til you're blue in the face about whether he is going to be any good or not. We'll see. He's going to get the first crack at being the RT though, like it or not.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

DJ had third round grade by many scouts...it seems they were correct...

That's complete nonsense and false. He was drafted almost exactly where he was rated.

 

[Snakester]

So you would be fine with drafting Ryan Kelly and have him start straight out of college with Shipley backing him up, but your not fine with Humphries starting and Watford backing him up? I think that Watford and Shipley are both below average starter but solid backups in a pinch. So I just don't understand how some can have so much more faith in a rookie than Humphries.

I watched several games this week of Ryan Kelly's and feel comfortable with him starting day one. He doesn't have a single weakness to his game and I would say he is already better than Sendlein or Shipley. Humphries has yet to show that he is even a good player or even adequate. He could turn out to be a great tackle and I hope he does but he hasn't shown squat yet. As bad as he was I find it hard to believe he can be a completely different player in one off season.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I watched several games this week of Ryan Kelly's and feel comfortable with him starting day one. He doesn't have a single weakness to his game and I would say he is already better than Sendlein or Shipley. Humphries has yet to show that he is even a good player or even adequate. He could turn out to be a great tackle and I hope he does but he hasn't shown squat yet. As bad as he was I find it hard to believe he can be a completely different player in one off season.

Why don't we wait and see Kelly play against an NFL linemen before being comfortable with him starting?

I think he'll be good and an early starter but a lot of guys look good against college players.