Offensive Line: Post-Cooper Trade

[Ed Burmila]

I watched several games this week of Ryan Kelly's and feel comfortable with him starting day one. He doesn't have a single weakness to his game and I would say he is already better than Sendlein or Shipley. Humphries has yet to show that he is even a good player or even adequate. He could turn out to be a great tackle and I hope he does but he hasn't shown squat yet. As bad as he was I find it hard to believe he can be a completely different player in one off season.

"As bad as he was" when?

 

[GuernseyCard]

I watched several games this week of Ryan Kelly's and feel comfortable with him starting day one. He doesn't have a single weakness to his game and I would say he is already better than Sendlein or Shipley. Humphries has yet to show that he is even a good player or even adequate. He could turn out to be a great tackle and I hope he does but he hasn't shown squat yet. As bad as he was I find it hard to believe he can be a completely different player in one off season.

Let's compare apples to apples.

DJ was good enough in his last year in College to be drafted in the first and I don't remember any of the gurus panning the pick.

 

[Snakester]

That's complete nonsense and false. He was drafted almost exactly where he was rated.

Many had him not in the first round a well as many of the draft mags. They all said the same things pretty much that he had great potential but was raw and would need time to develop and needed strength.

Athlon sports had him ranked 17th and a 5th/6th round grade while Pro Football Weeklys mag had him ranked 6th with a second round grade.

 

[Snakester]

"As bad as he was" when?

In the preseason.

 

[TJ]

Nobody knows if Humphries is going to pan out or not, but it's pretty obvious (remember the fluff piece from Urban on the team website the day after the season ended about him stepping up next year) that he's going to be the starter.

If he fails, then it's equally clear based on his history that BA will bench him. But given how tight against the cap we are right now, nobody making over the vet minimum is going to be brought in to replace him.

You guys can argue til you're blue in the face about whether he is going to be any good or not. We'll see. He's going to get the first crack at being the RT though, like it or not.

^^^^^^ He gets it

 

[Snakester]

Why don't we wait and see Kelly play against an NFL linemen before being comfortable with him starting?

I think he'll be good and an early starter but a lot of guys look good against college players.

True you do have a good point. I tend to use my own eyes watching game film and make my own judgements. I'm not always right but most of the time I'm spot on. Kelly just looks solid in all aspects of his game where Humphries has holes all over his.

 

[oaken1]

True you do have a good point. I tend to use my own eyes watching game film and make my own judgements. I'm not always right but most of the time I'm spot on. Kelly just looks solid in all aspects of his game where Humphries has holes all over his.

he better be good... Bama linemen don't really get much better once they move up to the NFL.... Saban is good at getting the most out of his players.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

That's complete nonsense and false. He was drafted almost exactly where he was rated.

The NFL Draft Advisory Board told the junior to remain at Florida, where he never made an All-SEC team. The board branded him a third-rounder or worse. Now, many analysts have Humphries pegged as a first-rounder.

I misstated, it was the NFL Advisory board who told him to go back to school.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2015/st...ackle-dj-humphries-aims-first-round-nfl-draft

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

So when the analysts and coaches say, back in May, that this is a redshirt season for DJ, that isn't a fact?

I feel like you don't understand what "redshirt" means.

I'm sorry you're going to have to find a link to that May comment. Because as some of the most well-informed and well-respected posters have pointed out numerous times, they were coaching him up to play this season going through training camp.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Mayock mentioned it the day before the draft (if you remember, he was the only one who predicted the DJ pick), and reiterated the team's intentions after the pick was made.

Soooo . . . no link to your "facts." Okay.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Many had him not in the first round a well as many of the draft mags. They all said the same things pretty much that he had great potential but was raw and would need time to develop and needed strength.

Athlon sports had him ranked 17th and a 5th/6th round grade while Pro Football Weeklys mag had him ranked 6th with a second round grade.

Well, if Athlon had it that way............. most NFL teams had him in round 1 and ranked in the 20's overall.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

On draft night, it sounded like the Arizona Cardinals intended on first round pick D.J. Humphries playing right away. After rookie camp and the first day of OTAs, it doesn't sound likely at all.

Humphries started off on the second field for practice. He is currently behind starter Bobby Massie and backup Bradley Sowell, and it is going to take a lot of work to move up.

http://www.revengeofthebirds.com/20...ookie-dj-humphries-has-to-do-a-helluva-lot-to

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I misstated, it was the NFL Advisory board who told him to go back to school.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2015/st...ackle-dj-humphries-aims-first-round-nfl-draft

What does that have to do with anything? Philip Rivers originally had a3rd-4th round grade until the Senior Bowl. Then he went top 5. Do you think Carson Wentz had a top 10 grade prior to workouts? I'm going by his draft day grade, not 4 months prior.

I've been talking Carson Wentz for over a year(Xmas 2014) when I was told to keep an eye on him and that he could end up being the best QB in the draft. At that point, I doubt he was considered 1st round material though.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Mayock mentioned it the day before the draft (if you remember, he was the only one who predicted the DJ pick), and reiterated the team's intentions after the pick was made.

I guess I'll just post all this again, since apparently it was ignored the first time. NONE of the below comes close to talking about redshirting him. It's ALL coming from Urban or Arians and it's ALL talking about Humphries either having a shot as a starter or at worst, his role as a backup. The redshirt stuff is completely bogus. Without further adieu, here's what was ACTUALLY being said:

I'm sorry, this is all complete spin after the fact. Mouth of Sauron, Darren Urban in camp wasn't talking about a plan to "red-shirt" this kid. In fact, here's EXACTLY what he said:

"A hyperextended knee sidelined Humphries the past week, but he was back practicing with the team at training camp on Tuesday.

The Cardinals have depth at offensive line. But a first-round pick is expected to play sooner rather than later, and whether Humphries can beat out incumbent Bobby Massie or Humphries would be needed if Massie was unavailable, it’s imperative for him to be prepared. Bradley Sowell and Earl Watford have also gotten extended reps at right tackle while Humphries has been hurt."

http://www.azcardinals.com/news-and-...b-7775c238c047

NONE of the above sounds like the plan all season was to have this kid on the inactive list all season long. Urban is as tapped in as anyone covering the team and above he's not only talking about him playing sooner rather then later, but talking about whether or not he can actually beat out Massie.

And none of these comments a week later make any sense if the plan all along was to redshirt him:

"Arians said Monday Humphries will work at left tackle this week, allowing Earl Watford to get snaps at right tackle as Watford tries to battle Bradley Sowell for the starting job. Humphries needs the left-side work, Arians said, because it’ll be necessary in his immediate role.

“He’s going to be a backup tackle for us,” Arians said, “so if he’s going to dress on Sundays, he’s got to be able to play both.”

That’s a far cry from the hope that Humphries might be able to beat out Bobby Massie as the starting right tackle. The Cardinals are fortunate because they have options beyond Humphries."

https://www.azcardinals.com/news-and...2-3991a63cd70e

Again, Arians is literally talking about him suiting up on Sundays... this year. And Urban is lamenting that there's no hope Humphries can beat out Massie, implying there was hope at some point in Cardinals land.

And then there's this... from min-camp:


"There’s plenty of attention on Humphries, who is not only the team’s top pick, but one making the transition from left to right tackle. It is his best shot at making the starting lineup -- Jared Veldheer is entrenched at left tackle – where he will battle incumbent Bobby Massie for the starting gig.
While the competition is sure to be chronicled closely, coach Bruce Arians isn’t overly concerned with Humphries’ development.

“In the perfect world, he’d back up this year and learn how to play in the NFL behind two quality players,” Arians said. “There’s no need for him to jump out there and start for us, but he has a great future.”

http://www.azcardinals.com/news-and-...2-57d4f0bfbae9

Again, they're talking about him possibly battling for a starting spot, but even if that's not the case, at worst, they wanted him to be a back-up.

The idea that he would never even make the active roster had to be disappointing to everyone on the team. I don't know how anyone can really believe otherwise. Believing comments made AFTER a season about the "plan to redshirt" fly in the face of what we were hearing the entire lead up and through training camp.

 

[TJ]

I'm sorry you're going to have to find a link to that May comment. Because as some of the most well-informed and well-respected posters have pointed out numerous times, they were coaching him up to play this season going through training camp.

Then why are your "well-respected, well-informed" posters having a tough time catching up in this discussion?

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showpost.php?p=3311456&postcount=75

I'm trying to be as nice as possible, but when the facts are there in black-and-white, and you choose to ignore them or spin them to fit your own narrative, umm, how "well-informed" are you, honestly?

Soooo . . . no link to your "facts." Okay.

I don't go dumpster-diving for links when someone asks. I don't lie or twist facts to make an argument. Frankly, I don't need to.

This is not a thesis or dissertation in which I have to cite my sources. Especially in this situation, in which I've been step-for-step with the coaching staff for quite a while in my discussions.

I'm clearly not in your "well-informed, well-respected" category, but those who at least read and comprehend my posts know that the last thing I do is BS to make a point.

 

[Cheesebeef]

So when the analysts and coaches say, back in May, that this is a redshirt season for DJ, that isn't a fact?

not when you can't back up that fact with... actual FACTS. Like a link, anything, anywhere that has them saying that. I've provided quotes and links that talk about him possibly playing and at least being a backup. where is your redshirt quote?

I feel like you don't understand what "redshirt" means.

I feel like you don't understand what "fact" means.

 

[Ohcrap75]

Nobody knows if Humphries is going to pan out or not, but it's pretty obvious (remember the fluff piece from Urban on the team website the day after the season ended about him stepping up next year) that he's going to be the starter.

If he fails, then it's equally clear based on his history that BA will bench him. But given how tight against the cap we are right now, nobody making over the vet minimum is going to be brought in to replace him.

You guys can argue til you're blue in the face about whether he is going to be any good or not. We'll see. He's going to get the first crack at being the RT though, like it or not.

You somehow said how I feel better than I did.... CRAP!

 

[TJ]

I guess I'll just post all this again, since apparently it was ignored the first time. NONE of the below comes close to talking about redshirting him. It's ALL coming from Urban or Arians and it's ALL talking about Humphries either having a shot as a starter or at worst, his role as a backup. The redshirt stuff is completely bogus. Without further adieu, here's what was ACTUALLY being said:

So why would Mayock, who was the only one to nail the pick and the future considerations for the player, indicate in May that the team's intention was to redshirt him?

You can choose to reject what's being said above, but as I said in May and I'm saying again: the team never planned on playing him this season. Anything beyond that is fluff.

 

[TJ]

I feel like you don't understand what "fact" means.

Hmmm---let's evaluate:

I maintained the same dialogue before Arians discussed DJ at the combine. When he spoke, he stated at least two things, which I mentioned verbatim: that 2015 was a redshirt season for him, and that putting him out on the field would've failed him.

This, by the way, was out of both fact and observation of the entire progress of DJ.

Maybe, (just maybe), I have a better understanding on this situation than most???

This thread is bombed and depleted. If you need me, I'm going back to complaining about the NCAA Tournament Committee.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

Hmmm---let's evaluate:

I maintained the same dialogue before Arians discussed DJ at the combine. When he spoke, he stated at least two things, which I mentioned verbatim: that 2015 was a redshirt season for him, and that putting him out on the field would've failed him.

This, by the way, was out of both fact and observation of the entire progress of DJ.

Maybe, (just maybe), I have a better understanding on this situation than most???

This thread is bombed and depleted. If you need me, I'm going back to complaining about the NCAA Tournament Committee.

So in other words, nothing. Thanks for playing.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

Methinks TJ remembers Urban's characterization of Humphries' lost season from this article in January:
http://m.azcardinals.com/news-and-e...n-Cooper/c49b7de4-eb87-4571-a952-37530f4f1dbe

The team's No. 1 draft pick in 2015 was never active for a game, not once. Now, his "redshirt" year is over, and the Cardinals will need more going forward.

"Sitting down and talking to the older guys and getting messages from (Bruce Arians), it's just took me a little longer than most," Humphries said. "It's starting to click for me."

The Cardinals have spent two of three No. 1 draft picks in the Steve Keim/Bruce Arians era on offensive linemen: Guard Jonathan Cooper in 2013, and Humphries this past draft. To not have either starting by year's end - Cooper lost a starting job to Ted Larsenmidway through the season - isn't ideal.

"I think (Humphries) is going to be fine, I think Coop is going to be fine," coach Bruce Arians said. "I really do."

There are no, none, nada quotes on record from Arians stating his intention to treat DJ's rookie season as a "redshirt" year.

 

[Cardiac]

"In the perfect world, he’d back up this year and learn how to play in the NFL behind two quality players,” Arians said. “There’s no need for him to jump out there and start for us, but he has a great future.”


http://www.azcardinals.com/news-and...irst-Day/e50d1aa1-4137-4cb1-a532-57d4f0bfbae9

So while this isn't really the smoking gun it is pretty evident that BA wasn't counting on or expecting or even wanting DJ to play his rookie year.

 

[TJ]

Methinks TJ remembers Urban's characterization of Humphries' lost season from this article in January.

Youthinks incorrectly.

 

[TJ]

"In the perfect world, he’d back up this year and learn how to play in the NFL behind two quality players,” Arians said. “There’s no need for him to jump out there and start for us, but he has a great future.”


http://www.azcardinals.com/news-and...irst-Day/e50d1aa1-4137-4cb1-a532-57d4f0bfbae9

So while this isn't really the smoking gun it is pretty evident that BA wasn't counting on or expecting or even wanting DJ to play his rookie year.

Thank you.

Perhaps, I should've been less lazy and just dug that up, since this board seems to think I talk out of my ass.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

Mayock thought DJ could start immediately at RT: