Official - Texans Sign Leinart

[carrrnuttt]

Oh, I'm not done, either. There are those who would propose that Matt could have shined if he was only "handled better." And yet, here they go "handling" probably the most singularly important man to this franchise at the moment like he's some sort of pouty child that needs berating. Mistake or not, the HEAD coach decided it be so, I can only assume, for the betterment of the team (and frankly, I can't disagree with him).

Two things: ONE--why can't people wait for RESULTS before bemoaning a season that hasn't even started yet? TWO--It comes back to an issue between a high-class guy that has (believe it or not) proven himself throughout his tenure in AZ, and the other guy who regularly gets spotted in a website called "The Dirty Scottsdale." I'm sorry if I'd rather trust the former. Maybe it's just my upbringing.

 

[D-Dogg]

My skin is fine don't ever worry about that.

Still gives some WOW. To compare the two of us to him or it or whatever that poster is.

I don't know, it made me laugh. Figured it would get a rise out of the two of you (though I thought 82 would flip out a lot more, I'm disappointed.)

 

[D-Dogg]

It's not about being a "great QB coach." It's being a great manager of talent, coaching and player-wise, since you're willing to at least give Haley some credit. If it was all about Kurt, are you trying to tell me that Eli Manning is a better QB/person/player than Kurt? Oh, and how's Haley doing with his USC quarterback? Huh?

I swear to God. I have never seen so many people seriously defend a lazy, self-entitled, pretty-boy, "Hollywood" brat against a hard-working, hard-thinking engineer in my life.

Ridiculous comes to mind.

I don't know where you are getting this, but get your groove on.

But, let's take my argument vs. your rant.

It's not about being a "great QB coach."

Really? That's what people are trying to say it is.

It's being a great manager of talent, coaching and player-wise, since you're willing to at least give Haley some credit.

No ** sherlock. That's a given. Whis is a master at this...which is why I said he was like a chemist, putting the right ingredients together to concoct the perfect potent mix. That's a compliment. It is a truly rare quality that only the best leaders, CEOs, etc have.

If it was all about Kurt, are you trying to tell me that Eli Manning is a better QB/person/player than Kurt? Oh, and how's Haley doing with his USC quarterback? Huh?

Huh indeed. No idea what you are talking about here. WTF does Eli or Cassell have to do with Kurt? Perhaps you missed it...Haley and Kurt were the perfect match, and CKW was smart enough to stoke that fire and let it burn. But he didn't actively do anything there that could be considered grooming a QB in any way, so it's irrelevant in the whole "CKW and the QB" mantra trying to be bandied about in here.

I swear to God. I have never seen so many people seriously defend a lazy, self-entitled, pretty-boy, "Hollywood" brat against a hard-working, hard-thinking engineer in my life.

Again, HUH? This has nothing to do with Matt. In all seriousness, CKW made the ballsy, correct move there and I back him on it. Wish Matt would have panned out here, but it is clear that he wouldn't have so cutting him was the good play. What about that has ANYTHING to do with whether CKW was the impetus between Zombie Kurt rising from the dead and becoming the savior?

Bear in mind as well, that I think CKW is the one responsible for turning this franchise around, not Kurt. CKW instilled the winner's mentality here, started taking no crap, and built a TEAM instead of a bunch of players. But he didn't resurrect KW's career...KW and Haley did that, under CKW's watchful eye. He created the environment for them to succeed, and brought in Haley who was the perfect complement to KW.

Ridiculous comes to mind.

And thus you spewed ridiculous. Funny, that.

 

[D-Dogg]

Oh, I'm not done, either. There are those who would propose that Matt could have shined if he was only "handled better." And yet, here they go "handling" probably the most singularly important man to this franchise at the moment like he's some sort of pouty child that needs berating. Mistake or not, the HEAD coach decided it be so, I can only assume, for the betterment of the team (and frankly, I can't disagree with him).

Two things: ONE--why can't people wait for RESULTS before bemoaning a season that hasn't even started yet? TWO--It comes back to an issue between a high-class guy that has (believe it or not) proven himself throughout his tenure in AZ, and the other guy who regularly gets spotted in a website called "The Dirty Scottsdale." I'm sorry if I'd rather trust the former. Maybe it's just my upbringing.

You do realize this "those" and "they" and "people" you are talking about are probably no more than 5 people on the board, right? THESMEL being the looneybin version, then a few others nowhere near as vehement.

Stop acting like the fanbase has turned on the coach...it isn't remotely true. Quit tilting at windmills, for goodness sake.

 

[Shane]

You do realize this "those" and "they" and "people" you are talking about are probably no more than 5 people on the board, right? THESMEL being the looneybin version, then a few others nowhere near as vehement.

Stop acting like the fanbase has turned on the coach...it isn't remotely true. Quit tilting at windmills, for goodness sake.

nashman
azsouthendzone
rats
cliff
THESMEL

and????????

Yup just about 5.

Your right.

 

[D-Dogg]

nashman
azsouthendzone
rats
cliff
THESMEL

and????????

Yup just about 5.

Your right.

There's one more...but I don't know who he is.

 

[Duckjake]

The most amazing thing is that we just had our first round draft picks from 2005 and 2006 go to other teams and people are overjoyed that it happened.

2000 Kansas City
2001 Dallas
2002 Horrendous pick
2003 Jets and Lions
2005 Giants
2006 Texans
2007 Sucks

Do we have some great scouts or what?

The Cards should trade out of the first round every year and focus on UDFAs instead.

 

[82CardsGrad]

The most amazing thing is that we just had our first round draft picks from 2005 and 2006 go to other teams and people are overjoyed that it happened.

2000 Kansas City
2001 Dallas
2002 Horrendous pick
2003 Jets and Lions
2005 Giants
2006 Texans
2007 Sucks

Do we have some great scouts or what?

The Cards should trade out of the first round every year and focus on UDFAs instead.

Would love to see how that record stacks up against the rest of the league...

 

[nashman]

Don't include me! Just because I question a decision does not mean I have turned against our coach. I believe their is a reason just not sure we will ever know what it was really about. Hopefully DA can not suck and we can still compete just not holding my breath as I have little confidence in him. Just because some of us wanted to actually see matt get a chance in real games does not make us whiz haters! Get your facts straight!

 

[Rats]

Wrong. 0 fumbles in two games to end '06 once he adopted the gloves. It wasn't Whis' idea for him to wear the gloves and it wasn't Whis' decision for Warner to start and it wasn't Whis' offense that catapulted the Cardinals into an elite offense.

Thank You, it was Whis defering to Warner and the offense that best suited Warners style of play. This was not the Whis offense molding Warner. Please that is silly. Warner showed his toughness once ML went down and he earned the respect of the team. His great decision makeing catapulted him back to top status. His last season was all Warner. Coach sent in a play and Warner changed it at will. And just because Shane lumps several of us that he disagrees with together and says we are a bunch of nutbags for questioning Whis on his poor handling of the ML situation or on who deserves the credit for the last 2 seasons QB play we should believe him?? Come on Shane. Just because you constantly monitor every post and respond with your opinion doesn't make yours any more right than anyone elses. More likely to be somewhere in the middle and your constant harping and smackdown attempts of anyone with a contrary opinion are tiresome and old. Grow Up.

 

[LarryStalling]

[

Bear in mind as well, that I think CKW is the one responsible for turning this franchise around, not Kurt. CKW instilled the winner's mentality here, started taking no crap, and built a TEAM instead of a bunch of players. But he didn't resurrect KW's career...KW and Haley did that, under CKW's watchful eye. He created the environment for them to succeed, and brought in Haley who was the perfect complement to KW.



And thus you spewed ridiculous. Funny, that.[/quote]

How about Q and A-dub were the beginning of turning the franchise, when they resigned to play for the team. Personally, I would like to see Q come back as a wide receiver coach some day.

 

[carrrnuttt]

He created the environment for them to succeed...

So. Underneath all that self-serving, ego-driven diatribe otherwise known as "I am arguing for the sake of arguing," you actually agree with me?

Thought so.

 

[moklerman]

This is too stupid to even respond to. Please explain how on earth you came to that conclusion, I'm dying to figure it out.

Well, you said that since Leinart was passed over for Robinson by Seattle and Cincinnati didn't take him even with Palmer pleading his case that it's all we need to know, right? Other teams took someone else as their backup so that proves how bad Leinart really is, right?

Well, if Palmer was pleading for the Bengals to take Leinart, then by your rationale, he must want Leinart more than he wants Jordan as his backup.

And you're right, it is a stupid leap of logic but it is your leap, not mine. I was just trying to illustrate for you how ludicrous it was for you to say it.

 

[D-Dogg]

So. Underneath all that self-serving, ego-driven diatribe otherwise known as "I am arguing for the sake of arguing," you actually agree with me?

Thought so.

So, despite inserting yourself into an argument without knowing what was being discussed, and after ranting and raving you now realize that you were saying something that I had ALREADY said in the thread but you didn't know it?

Thought so.

 

[moklerman]

I think it means that he likes Leinart as the #3 better than the rookie 6th round pick who was already cut this preseason and claimed off the waiver wire.

Jordan Palmer will be the Bengals #2.

Based on what? I like Jordan Palmer and hope he can hang on to an NFL job for as long as possible but he is not a #2 level QB. He is a #3 at best and there's an obvious reason why he's getting a chance where he is.

If Leinart were taken by the Bengals he'd be the #2 almost immediately.

 

[moklerman]

okay, you're right, the HC/OC didn't turn around a left for dead washed up QB and put him in a position to play HOF football or lead a rookie to a 15-1 record and then a Super Bowl.

Overwhelming evidence shows he's worked with 3 QBs... and 2 of the 3 of them played great football with him, both at the end and beginnings of careers.

the above is laughable.

I agree, your two paragraphs ARE laughable. Whis didn't turn Warner around, at most he gave him a chance to play. And considering how much confidence he has shown in Leinart, it wasn't like the decision to go with Warner in '08 and give him that chance to play was much of decision. It's not like he really wanted to start Leinart.

And are you honestly going to sit there and tell me that it was Ben's play that led the Steelers to a Super Bowl win in '05? Ben did even less than Dilfer did for the Ravens in '00 and was downright terrible in the SB. That Steelers team wasn't about Ben being a miracle rookie(which he was) it was about defense and running the ball.

And after that SB win, Roethlisberger couldn't wait to get rid of Whisenhunt. Which is the point. Whis has many great qualities as a HC but identifying and developing QB's haven't proved to be on the list.

 

[moklerman]

Warner absolutely got into better shape at the direction of John Lott. I don't deny that. He also started wearing gloves. But as another poster in here has pointed out I don't believe the gloves are the reason for the fumbling going away.

And, in Warner's particular case, you would be just as wrong. Warner fumbling when he got sacked wasn't the reason he was nonviable as a starting QB it was because he couldn't hold onto the ball when handing off and when taking snaps.

As I tried to point out in the other thread, the formula that is being offered relies upon the premise that most, if not all, QB fumbles are directly related to that QB getting sacked. Perhaps in general terms that would be acceptable but with Warner from '02-'06 we all know that, statistically speaking, a significant amount of the fumbles Warner had occurred in situations other than a sack. I would guess that at least 2 fumbles per season were in non-sack situations and when your talking about 10-12 fumbles total that's a significant percentage.

Those who dismiss the gloves as coincidental simply don't know what they're talking about. In terms of fumbles and in terms of how he handled the ball and in terms of how he threw the ball. Every single facet of his game noticeably improved from the very first time he wore the gloves. I have seen him play at ever level of professional football and I can say that without any reservation or doubt.

 

[40yearfan]

Please season. Hurry up and start. We desperately need something else to talk about.

 

[LarryStalling]

I agree, your two paragraphs ARE laughable. Whis didn't turn Warner around, at most he gave him a chance to play. And considering how much confidence he has shown in Leinart, it wasn't like the decision to go with Warner in '08 and give him that chance to play was much of decision. It's not like he really wanted to start Leinart.

And are you honestly going to sit there and tell me that it was Ben's play that led the Steelers to a Super Bowl win in '05? Ben did even less than Dilfer did for the Ravens in '00 and was downright terrible in the SB. That Steelers team wasn't about Ben being a miracle rookie(which he was) it was about defense and running the ball.

And after that SB win, Roethlisberger couldn't wait to get rid of Whisenhunt. Which is the point. Whis has many great qualities as a HC but identifying and developing QB's haven't proved to be on the list.

You think this could have had something to do with Whiz not getting the Pittsburgh HC job and caused the Steelers to go outside of the organization and bring in Mike Tomlin.

 

[john h]

ESPNs Adam Schefter is reporting that the Texans have emerged as the front runner to sign Matt Leinart....I could see it as he had an effiecent game against them.

A one year deal. Wonder what the price was and do the Texans have any options. I thought St Louis and their new coach would be the logical choice but perhaps the coach knows what Whiz knows.

 

[john h]

Would Matt be willing to be the number two QB behind Schaub?

He sure would not get any offer as the starting QB at this late date. It will take him half the year to learn the playbook and players. He should also forget about making 11 mil next year.
Maybe all this will jack Matt up.

 

[john h]

If he does sign, I like their 1, 2 punch better than ours at this point.

This is why they call you Crazy Canuck. Just kidding dude.

 

[john h]

Well that would make sense. he would have to learn the play book first. Lets see is they they sign him and then see where he ends up on the depth chart. Wouldn't suprise me if he ended up the 3 at seasons end tho.

It took us two years to forget about Jake. Will it take that long for us to forget about Matt. The man is gone gone gone-------------------

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Well, you said that since Leinart was passed over for Robinson by Seattle and Cincinnati didn't take him even with Palmer pleading his case that it's all we need to know, right? Other teams took someone else as their backup so that proves how bad Leinart really is, right?

Well, if Palmer was pleading for the Bengals to take Leinart, then by your rationale, he must want Leinart more than he wants Jordan as his backup.

And you're right, it is a stupid leap of logic but it is your leap, not mine. I was just trying to illustrate for you how ludicrous it was for you to say it.

No, you're putting words in my mouth, (you're ridiculous interpretation) and your logic is laughable at best. I choose not to waste any more time explaining anything to you.

You were a Warner fan boy who turned into a Leinart fan boy, and both of your knights in shining armor left. I understand you're upset, but don't want to discuss either with you, because you can't be rational on either subject.

 

[chickenhead]

We need leadership at both the coach and QB position, and allegedly it became apparent that we weren't going to get it with Leinart and Whiz. We had it with Warner and Whiz. Whiz had a leader on the field in Roethlisberger even though they had conflicts (which in my mind mitigates some of the arguments about this being purely personal with Leinart).

In any case, staffing changes are rarely amicable, but they can be for the best for both parties. Leinart has a new opportunity with a great QB coach and possibly the chance for an 'I told you so' down the line.