ok after the bye josh or kurt?

[Codeofhammurabi]

josh did move the team and put up a lot of yardage. He still misses seeing some open receivers and when it counted he could not get it done on the last two possessions. Big time QB's get the job done with two possessions. A lack of a running game hurts big time. I frankly think JJ is a bust alread. They should give him a go at wideout. He lacks the power or heart to make yardage into the line regardless of the OL. He sure is not Cadillac Williams. In some respects Josh reminds me of Jake. He can look real good and real bad but lacks consistency. He had a chance to set himself up for a good contract next season but at the end of the game he did not have what it takes. That is the time when the good QB's step up.

Are you saying Kurt got the job done in the last two possessions of the game against the Rams?

 

[artp]

I'd give Warner the ball for the next few games. If he can't win, go back to Josh. We'll have 8 games to see if we have a QB for next year. I haven't given up on Navarre or Davey for the future.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

I'm fine with whatever DG does in this situation. Josh looked great for 6 out of 8 quarters of football, but I can't say with any certainty that Warner wouldn't have looked equally great (if not greater). Who knows?

I'm cool with either guy starting in the next game.

Way to put yourself out there man!

seriously though. If you had to make a choice, who would you start?

 

[Crimson Warrior]

John with all due respect Cadillac was LONG GONE when we picked JJ, why do you continually bring him up when you're talking about JJ?

And you might have missed his last 2 games, couldn't play today he got injured last week because his coach is a moron and overused him.

JJ outplayed Shipp today, he just got 4 carries, hard to do much in 4 carries. he's getting better every week, seems silly to label a guy a bust when he's playing better each week and we're seeing proof positive evidence the problem is the OL, not the RB's?

thats a bit of a stretch. still too early to call him a bust though.

 

[Russ Smith]

thats a bit of a stretch. still too early to call him a bust though.

Stretch?

first week 8 carries 5 yards

second week didn't play

third week 5 carries 9 yards

4th week 7 carries 13 yards

Today 4 carries 14 yards.

I don't know about you but that looks like a guy who's getting better every week?

Wolfley and pasch both said during the game, he seems like he's finally seeing the game slow down, there was one stretch play where he cut up field and Wolfley started screaming "that's the cut I've been waiting to see all year from him", it was just 4 yards, but Wolfley said it was clear to him JJ is running the ball with more confidence now.

 

[coyotesareback]

with all due respect Josh McCown did NOT lose this game for us. I am sure none of you were bitching when he was moving the O up and down the field and scoring (two games in a row now BETTER than warner). Josh should be the starter our O performs much better it seems with Josh at QB. Boldins fumble cost us the game for the record.

 

[Pariah]

Way to put yourself out there man!

seriously though. If you had to make a choice, who would you start?

Probably Warner.

 

[WildBB]

I vote McCown . A 1-4 start is not, I repeat not conducive to starting an aging QB comeing off an injury. Mc Cown deserves to start anyway and the line still sucks, so McCowns a better fit. More nimble back there. Where Warners just dead meat back there.

And not showing practically any rushing attack at all McCown did decent. He moved the team against a good D. Keep him in there.

 

[D-Dogg]

Josh. He is still making some mistakes, but he did things today that shows me he's learning...he even checked down, read a defense and found the open guy. He also missed a WIDE open Fitz in the middle of the field during one of our last two drives. But he's getting better. For the same reason I was fully behind the benching of him last year, I'm behind him continuing to start now. Last year he didn't move the chains; this year he's moving the offense up and down the field. That's ALL I've ever asked of him. I sure hope he doesn't revert to his old ways, and that he can cut out even more mistakes. But he never should have taken that delay of game penalty in a hurry up offense. He's not the "QB of the Future" and he sure isn't the guy some of you think he is...but he is showing me that he's no longer the guy he once was and I'm happy to have him back there. I no longer hold my breath on every passing down...I have confidence in him. That's a big statement for me.



JJ is getting better, no doubt. I loved the way he ran today...he'll pop some of those runs in the future. I think he's about 3-4 games away from earning a lot more carries per game. I like the way they are bringing him along right now...little pressure...I wish they hadn't named him the starter out of the box though. That may have actually hurt his progress.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

josh did move the team and put up a lot of yardage. He still misses seeing some open receivers and when it counted he could not get it done on the last two possessions. Big time QB's get the job done with two possessions. A lack of a running game hurts big time. I frankly think JJ is a bust alread. They should give him a go at wideout. He lacks the power or heart to make yardage into the line regardless of the OL. He sure is not Cadillac Williams. In some respects Josh reminds me of Jake. He can look real good and real bad but lacks consistency. He had a chance to set himself up for a good contract next season but at the end of the game he did not have what it takes. That is the time when the good QB's step up.

we may bump heads often, but i agree with this post 100%

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Probably Warner.

cool.

I'd go with McCown. I think he choked up at the end today, but that's something he can work on and improve.

The first half was amazing. He looked incredible.

 

[moklerman]

I say go with Warner if he's healthy. Warner was moving the chains just about as effectively with a lot more drops from his receivers. The last two weeks are hard to form much of an opinion since the opponents were so awful against the pass. Conversely, the first two weeks are hard to guage since the o-line was playing at such a huge disadvantage.

At 1-4 things aren't rosey, but the season is far from over. The D is playing good enough in a weak division, the offense is starting to come together a little bit and the West is very winnable at 9-7.

I think qb is the least of the offensive problems but if the Card's want to play at all for this year I think they have to put Warner back in. I think Warner's strength is his ability to not force the ball. He doesn't have a cannon arm so he won't be taking those same chances in critical situations. It's not like he isn't agressive or doesn't go for the endzone, his receivers have helped him very little so far. I think there have been 5 instances of receivers screwing up a td pass so far. Add to that the o-line putting the offense in a hole with penalties (which they did today as well, but in all they're getting better) and the defense not playing as well early in the season and I don't know that Warner has really gotten a fair shot.

 

[WisconsinCard]

I gotta stick with Josh. Lets see what he brings for a few more games. KW is not a long term solutition. Josh well who knows stranger things have happened.

 

[cardpa]

Doesn't reallly matter who starts. If your QB is going to be throwing the ball 35-40 times a game the RBs and the TEs have to get the ball more than they did Sunday. Not one catch by a TE and what 4-5 catches by Shipp and Arrington. If you can't rush then passes to these guys have to be your running game and they are not geting the ball enough. With as many passes as were thrown yesterday the TEs should have had 4-6 receptions and the RBs 8-12 receptions.

 

[Osbern61]

With the state of our offensive line...McCown.

 

[chickenhead]

I would lean towards Warner if he's fully healthy. Lots of criticism about yanking McCown early last year, but now some are willing to let injury cost Warner the starting job? That being said, if Warner is not completely healthy, I'd have no problem with him getting another week off.

 

[john h]

John with all due respect Cadillac was LONG GONE when we picked JJ, why do you continually bring him up when you're talking about JJ?

And you might have missed his last 2 games, couldn't play today he got injured last week because his coach is a moron and overused him.

JJ outplayed Shipp today, he just got 4 carries, hard to do much in 4 carries. he's getting better every week, seems silly to label a guy a bust when he's playing better each week and we're seeing proof positive evidence the problem is the OL, not the RB's?

I am not suggesting we could have got Cadillac. Many posters seem to put JJ in a class that he clearly is not in. You do not learn the RB position. You can either run or you cannot. It is instinctive. JJ has not been hurt so what we are seeing is what we got. We also have a lot of criticism of Thomas Jones. He was injured when he was here and I was not for just letting him walk. He ran for 137 yds yesterday and has been a good runner since he left here. I just get frustrated when we send decent players packing and draft someone who it appears to me will never be a good RB. I mention Cadillac because he represents what a good RB can do even if he is a rookie. I have heard a lot of excuses for JJ and it is time to call it like it is.

 

[john h]

Put JJ on the Bucs and put Cadilac on the Cards. Now, who's the best?

JJ will never walk in Cadillac's foot prints no matter where he plays.

 

[john h]

Are you saying Kurt got the job done in the last two possessions of the game against the Rams?

I am not comparing Josh to anyone except a standard we all want.

 

[john h]

Stretch?

first week 8 carries 5 yards

second week didn't play

third week 5 carries 9 yards

4th week 7 carries 13 yards

Today 4 carries 14 yards.

I don't know about you but that looks like a guy who's getting better every week?

Wolfley and pasch both said during the game, he seems like he's finally seeing the game slow down, there was one stretch play where he cut up field and Wolfley started screaming "that's the cut I've been waiting to see all year from him", it was just 4 yards, but Wolfley said it was clear to him JJ is running the ball with more confidence now.

The facts (stats) speak volumes.

 

[Russ Smith]

The facts (stats) speak volumes.

Yes they clearly show a guy who's average YPC is going UP every week. Yes he started slowly, very slowly, but as I said he's getting better.

Yesterday was the first game JJ had where he didn't have a single run for negative yardage. Shipp had 4 carries for negative yardage and 3 for no gain, that's 7 of his 13 carries for 0 or less yards. Arrington had 1 no gainer. That's 8 out of 17 carries combined where our RB"s either got 0 or less yards, the problem is not the RB's the problem is the OL can't run block.

Do I think Cadillac would look better than they do, yes, I think he's special, but since we never had a chance to draft him I don't think it's all that relevant to compare our RB's to him.

 

[TRW]

As to the question originally asked...

I want to see Denny stick with McCown FOR THE REST OF THE SEASON. Absent an injury, I want to see the debate ended, although there's little hope of that I'm afraid. If the team goes 1-15 one side will say "It weren't Josh's fault!" and the other side will say "It's all Josh's fault!"...sort of the "Tastes great!" "Less filling!" deal.

At the end of the year, the Cards will have to make a decision on Josh. That decision will be to franchise him or let him walk. No matter how he performs, I'm not betting the farm that they franchise him under any circumstances. I'm pretty sure his play the rest of the way wouldn't warrant that anyway I also don't think he will get some kind of long term deal before season end.

That's the best solution in my opinion, let Josh play. Kurt can watch and go elsewhere next year. I wouldn't bring him back next year under any circumstances, he's pretty much done as a starter I think.

<sigh>

 

[Russ Smith]

I want to see Denny stick with McCown FOR THE REST OF THE SEASON. Absent an injury, I want to see the debate ended, although there's little hope of that I'm afraid. If the team goes 1-15 one side will say "It weren't Josh's fault!" and the other side will say "It's all Josh's fault!"...sort of the "Tastes great!" "Less filling!" deal.

At the end of the year, the Cards will have to make a decision on Josh. That decision will be to franchise him or let him walk. No matter how he performs, I'm not betting the farm that they franchise him under any circumstances. I'm pretty sure his play the rest of the way wouldn't warrant that anyway I also don't think he will get some kind of long term deal before season end.

That's the best solution in my opinion, let Josh play. Kurt can watch and go elsewhere next year. I wouldn't bring him back next year under any circumstances, he's pretty much done as a starter I think.

<sigh>

We're not going to franchise Josh McCown. The franchise amount for QB last year was 8.078 million, does anybody here think Josh is worth 8 million?

We need to play him now to see what he can do so we can decide whether to extend him now or let him reach FA. We might consider transition tag but I'd be amazed if he gets outright tagged, he'd have to have an amazing season to get to that point. It happened to Drew Brees last year, nothing is impossible, but it's very unlikely he'll be tagged.

We need to see how far Josh can come as a player the rest of the year. I still have my doubts I still see the same fatal flaws, but you can't argue with ~ 750 yards passing the last 2 games he is getting better and we do know that Warner isn't the long term answer.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

What's the point of playing Warner? We're not going to close the season 8-3 no matter who plays QB and Warner is obviously on his last legs so playing him would really only be giving him an NFL curtain call for sentimental reasons. Give Josh at least the next three ot four games to prove whether he can be consistent enough to be an effective NFL starting QB. If he can't then see what Navarre or Davey or anyone else can do because yesterday's loss in my mind unfortunately means we're playing for 2006. No matter what happens though, I doubt Day 1 of the NFL draft doesn't pass without the Cardinals having a new QB on the roster whether it be via trade or through drafting.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

What's the point of playing Warner? We're not going to close the season 8-3 no matter who plays QB and Warner is obviously on his last legs so playing him would really only be giving him an NFL curtain call for sentimental reasons. Give Josh at least the next three ot four games to prove whether he can be consistent enough to be an effective NFL starting QB. If he can't then see what Navarre or Davey or anyone else can do because yesterday's loss in my mind unfortunately means we're playing for 2006. No matter what happens though, I doubt Day 1 of the NFL draft doesn't pass without the Cardinals having a new QB on the roster whether it be via trade or through drafting.

Well Green is an impantient coach and personaly I don't think he wants Josh to succeed because he already knows he will let him walk next season. There is no way the Cardinals would franchise Josh unless the guy runs off 11 in a row, I can safely say that will not happen.

One could argue that Warner would be a more cap friendly option 2 year deal over a 4 year deal for Josh for the next two seasons if we end up drafting a QB of the future. But I doubt Denny has the patience to draft another QB and develop him. What is more realistic is Warner is the stop gap between the next retread QB that comes in 07 (unless Lurch vastly improves).