ok after the bye josh or kurt?

[Crazy Canuck]

Well Green is an impantient coach and personaly I don't think he wants Josh to succeed because he already knows he will let him walk next season. There is no way the Cardinals would franchise Josh unless the guy runs off 11 in a row, I can safely say that will not happen.

One could argue that Warner would be a more cap friendly option 2 year deal over a 4 year deal for Josh for the next two seasons if we end up drafting a QB of the future. But I doubt Denny has the patience to draft another QB and develop him. What is more realistic is Warner is the stop gap between the next retread QB that comes in 07 (unless Lurch vastly improves).

Right! Green wants JOSH to fail...

 

[john h]

I want to see Denny stick with McCown FOR THE REST OF THE SEASON. Absent an injury, I want to see the debate ended, although there's little hope of that I'm afraid. If the team goes 1-15 one side will say "It weren't Josh's fault!" and the other side will say "It's all Josh's fault!"...sort of the "Tastes great!" "Less filling!" deal.

At the end of the year, the Cards will have to make a decision on Josh. That decision will be to franchise him or let him walk. No matter how he performs, I'm not betting the farm that they franchise him under any circumstances. I'm pretty sure his play the rest of the way wouldn't warrant that anyway I also don't think he will get some kind of long term deal before season end.

That's the best solution in my opinion, let Josh play. Kurt can watch and go elsewhere next year. I wouldn't bring him back next year under any circumstances, he's pretty much done as a starter I think.

<sigh>

DG is going to put the QB on the field who has the best chance of winning. The long term is getting short for DG and he is not about winning 2 years from now. In any event we need two QB's next year. I do not think we can get a better backup than Warner if he will even accept that position. McCown still has a season left to prove he is or is not an NFL starting QB. After 4 years it will be time to fish or cut bait. He is not going to get a Jake Plummer type contract with anyone. To many questions about him.

 

[Mitch]

Please read my second post on "Cards Fail to Make Adjustments Down the Stretch"...the way the Panthers dictated every defensive scheme they had with the worry that McCown's scrambling would cost them the game...there's no question that Josh McCown presents far more problems for opposing defenses than Kurt Warner.

McCown had the answers to all the Panthers' schemes, save their last resort scheme which was to lock up man for man and double on Q and Fitz with the safeties...in this scheme John Fox and the Panther coaches were praying McCown would remain pass happy and wouldn't exploit them with his legs...because when teams go man-to-man, that's the biggest worry and weakness...how do defend a scrambling QB when the middle of the field may be cleared and wide open to exploit.

McCown was outstanding yesterday for three quarters and he was giving the Panthers' coaches fits...how about the adjustments McCown made on their blitzes? The stop-and-go TD to Fitz...McCown backpedaled in the face of the blitz and threw a strike to Fitz off his back leg...how about the middle flip pass to Ayanbadejo while backpedaling in the face of a full house blitz...and Ayanbadejo made a nice juggling catch and run on that quick adjustment.

Especially since the Cardinals have no running game threat...at least McCown provides a legitimate one when he's on the field...one that other teams will have to account for at all times.

Plus...McCown is throwing the ball with better velocity and timing than Warner...how about the 26 yard strike to Boldin on the intermediate post route, on third and 18? Even the Fox announcers...went wild on that throw...and Eric Kramer, an ex-QB, should know.

I think the Cardinal coaches let McCown down in this game...because he and the offense were clearly unprepared to attack the Panthers' last resort man-to-man defense. As I say in my post, DG apparently wasn't even aware of what the Panthers were doing...because when he was asked in the post-game whether McCown had run out of gas...Green said no...he said, "They (Panthers) were playing their soft zone better." Unbelievable...no wonder why the Cardinal coaches aren't adjusting...the head coach doesn't even know what the opponents are doing to them...the Panthers abandoned the soft zone for the Cardinals' last two possessions...with the game in the balance...and they were praying that McCown would remain pass happy and not try to run...and their gamble paid off...their gamble was not adjusted to.

Josh McCown wakes up an anemic offense and passes for nearly 800 yards in two games...and some of you guys want to give him the hook? That's about as unbelievable as Dennis Green not knowing the Panthers' coverages down the stretch.

 

[john h]

We're not going to franchise Josh McCown. The franchise amount for QB last year was 8.078 million, does anybody here think Josh is worth 8 million?

We need to play him now to see what he can do so we can decide whether to extend him now or let him reach FA. We might consider transition tag but I'd be amazed if he gets outright tagged, he'd have to have an amazing season to get to that point. It happened to Drew Brees last year, nothing is impossible, but it's very unlikely he'll be tagged.

We need to see how far Josh can come as a player the rest of the year. I still have my doubts I still see the same fatal flaws, but you can't argue with ~ 750 yards passing the last 2 games he is getting better and we do know that Warner isn't the long term answer.

No we will no way franchise McCown. What is the deal on Boldin? Did we extend his contract. The announcer on Sunday made a statement we had Fitz and Boldin locked up. We could end up franchising Boldin or Rackers if we do not make a deal with them.

 

[Russ Smith]

No we will no way franchise McCown. What is the deal on Boldin? Did we extend his contract. The announcer on Sunday made a statement we had Fitz and Boldin locked up. We could end up franchising Boldin or Rackers if we do not make a deal with them.

ANquan is locked up, we should extend Rackers this year while we have the caproom, or some good team is going to make him a nice offer he's too big of a weapon.

 

[john h]

What's the point of playing Warner? We're not going to close the season 8-3 no matter who plays QB and Warner is obviously on his last legs so playing him would really only be giving him an NFL curtain call for sentimental reasons. Give Josh at least the next three ot four games to prove whether he can be consistent enough to be an effective NFL starting QB. If he can't then see what Navarre or Davey or anyone else can do because yesterday's loss in my mind unfortunately means we're playing for 2006. No matter what happens though, I doubt Day 1 of the NFL draft doesn't pass without the Cardinals having a new QB on the roster whether it be via trade or through drafting.

If McCown does not play QB next year then who does. Certainly not Navarre or Davey. Warner is probably as good as any free agent we are likely to pickup. If we draft a QB I doubt Green will start a rookie. I think we need Warner next year no matter how this shakes out. Yes, I think we need to start McCown the next game. If he plays well enough keep him in but if he plays poorly then yank him for Warner. We owe it to the other players and the fans to try and win every game by putting the best players on the field we can. This is not about Warner or Josh but about the team and winning.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

DG is going to put the QB on the field who has the best chance of winning. The long term is getting short for DG and he is not about winning 2 years from now. In any event we need two QB's next year. I do not think we can get a better backup than Warner if he will even accept that position. McCown still has a season left to prove he is or is not an NFL starting QB. After 4 years it will be time to fish or cut bait. He is not going to get a Jake Plummer type contract with anyone. To many questions about him.[/QUOTE]

Who knows....

That is precisely what people said about Plummer's chances of landing a good deal when he left AZ...

But, I'll put my money on JOSH doing quite well on the FA market, if it comes to that...

 

[john h]

Well Green is an impantient coach and personaly I don't think he wants Josh to succeed because he already knows he will let him walk next season. There is no way the Cardinals would franchise Josh unless the guy runs off 11 in a row, I can safely say that will not happen.

One could argue that Warner would be a more cap friendly option 2 year deal over a 4 year deal for Josh for the next two seasons if we end up drafting a QB of the future. But I doubt Denny has the patience to draft another QB and develop him. What is more realistic is Warner is the stop gap between the next retread QB that comes in 07 (unless Lurch vastly improves).

If McCown does not pan out and we are in a position to draft a real top quality QB I think we will draft one whether DG wants him or not. Another losing season and the owner and GM are going to be a little unhappy. If McCown works out I think we would go for a top RB in first round and then go after OL in second round if any are worthy of 2nd round picks. I just cannot imagine moving into a new stadium and winning 3-4 games our first year. We are already the butt of jokes and that would just add to it.

 

[conraddobler]

We're not going to franchise Josh McCown. The franchise amount for QB last year was 8.078 million, does anybody here think Josh is worth 8 million?

We need to play him now to see what he can do so we can decide whether to extend him now or let him reach FA. We might consider transition tag but I'd be amazed if he gets outright tagged, he'd have to have an amazing season to get to that point. It happened to Drew Brees last year, nothing is impossible, but it's very unlikely he'll be tagged.

We need to see how far Josh can come as a player the rest of the year. I still have my doubts I still see the same fatal flaws, but you can't argue with ~ 750 yards passing the last 2 games he is getting better and we do know that Warner isn't the long term answer.

I'd franchise him in a heartbeat.

It's why the Chargers do that with Brees.

It makes sense and they have the cap room, we do too. Sure Josh hit's the lottery but the most damaging mistake you could make is locking up the wrong guy long term.

I don't think in today's NFL wasting a few million more than a QB is worth is a big deal, I know that sounds funny but it's true.

What it allows us to do is to draft a QB without paying a couple years price and that's worth a lot.

 

[Redmark]

Guy like him don't start making good decisions. You've either got it in you or you don't.

4th and five and you throw a hail mary?

Get lucky enough to get the ball back and you throw it right to Lucas who saves you from your fourth int by dropping the ball?

Fourth and ten and you run?

This is a nice kid. By all accounts he's trying to improve. He's not a championship calibre QB.

Plain and simple.

If the OL continues to play well, Kurt will light it up. If he plays in either of these last two games the Cards win both from start to finish, and by large margins.

If the OL plays like it did the first 3 weeks, BOTH QB's will be need anyway.

1-4 sounds bad but, 8-8 WILL win this division and the Cards still have Seattle @ home.

I hope Denny doesn't make the same mistake Coughlin did last year and pull Kurt. This team has a chance to get to 8 wins yet.

My guess? I say Green names Josh the QB in his post game press confrence.

Bad move.

Agree with all your points. Warner can move around enough in the pocket to avoid the sacks against that type of defense, but as Mitch pointed out the defense was playing safe to counteract Josh's scrambles. The 4th down run bothers me the most since both Fitz and Boldin were shown running free. Also had an easy FD on the rollout pass which sailed high and wide to Boldin just standing on the sideline. Josh has been very inaccurate on his rollout passes this season as he doesn't seem aware of the physics involvedin having to compensate for the motion imparted from his own momentum. On that play, he could have stopped, set his feet and probably had a better chance of getting the ball close to Quan.

 

[chickenhead]

If McCown does not play QB next year then who does. Certainly not Navarre or Davey. Warner is probably as good as any free agent we are likely to pickup. If we draft a QB I doubt Green will start a rookie.

You're probably right about game #1, but Green did start a rookie last year, and might have done it more if Navarre hadn't been injured. But then there's the question of whether you want to start out your QB like David Carr or like Carson Palmer.

 

[Shane]

Please read my second post on "Cards Fail to Make Adjustments Down the Stretch"...the way the Panthers dictated every defensive scheme they had with the worry that McCown's scrambling would cost them the game...there's no question that Josh McCown presents far more problems for opposing defenses than Kurt Warner.

McCown had the answers to all the Panthers' schemes, save their last resort scheme which was to lock up man for man and double on Q and Fitz with the safeties...in this scheme John Fox and the Panther coaches were praying McCown would remain pass happy and wouldn't exploit them with his legs...because when teams go man-to-man, that's the biggest worry and weakness...how do defend a scrambling QB when the middle of the field may be cleared and wide open to exploit.

McCown was outstanding yesterday for three quarters and he was giving the Panthers' coaches fits...how about the adjustments McCown made on their blitzes? The stop-and-go TD to Fitz...McCown backpedaled in the face of the blitz and threw a strike to Fitz off his back leg...how about the middle flip pass to Ayanbadejo while backpedaling in the face of a full house blitz...and Ayanbadejo made a nice juggling catch and run on that quick adjustment.

Especially since the Cardinals have no running game threat...at least McCown provides a legitimate one when he's on the field...one that other teams will have to account for at all times.

Plus...McCown is throwing the ball with better velocity and timing than Warner...how about the 26 yard strike to Boldin on the intermediate post route, on third and 18? Even the Fox announcers...went wild on that throw...and Eric Kramer, an ex-QB, should know.

I think the Cardinal coaches let McCown down in this game...because he and the offense were clearly unprepared to attack the Panthers' last resort man-to-man defense. As I say in my post, DG apparently wasn't even aware of what the Panthers were doing...because when he was asked in the post-game whether McCown had run out of gas...Green said no...he said, "They (Panthers) were playing their soft zone better." Unbelievable...no wonder why the Cardinal coaches aren't adjusting...the head coach doesn't even know what the opponents are doing to them...the Panthers abandoned the soft zone for the Cardinals' last two possessions...with the game in the balance...and they were praying that McCown would remain pass happy and not try to run...and their gamble paid off...their gamble was not adjusted to.

Josh McCown wakes up an anemic offense and passes for nearly 800 yards in two games...and some of you guys want to give him the hook? That's about as unbelievable as Dennis Green not knowing the Panthers' coverages down the stretch.

Walter great post!

 

[Mitch]

I'll tell you what...if Carolina had a crack at signing McCown, they would. John Fox and his staff are very high on him...and after the fits Josh gave them yesterday, all the more high.

I think that RG will try to re-sign McCown to a cap friendly deal before the end of the season. He will sign Rackers before the end of the season too. I think Rohan Davey will receive a contract as well, and he will battle it out with John Navarre for the #2 spot. Drafting a QB will be likely as well, especially if the Cards have a shot at Matt Leinart or Vince Young.

This off-season will be huge for the Cards. They will need to bolster both lines by adding a beefy LG and a stalwart NT.

At RB...look for Green to add another back to the mix...Michael Bennett very well may be heading to Arizona in the near future.

I also think that the team will strongly consider shifting Antrel Rolle to FS...and start Eric Green at LCB. Macklin at RCB...with Lamont Reid and another CB draftee in 2006 backing up.

If the club elects to stick with Rolle at CB...they will be in the market for a starting free safety.

At LB...look for the Cards to make a major acquisition...Lavar Arrington, who is a huge fan of Dennis Green, may be the choice. Arrington was despondent when the Redskins bypassed Green for their head coaching job two years ago...and Green may be just the coach Arrington needs to get him back in the elite company at LB where he belongs.

Yet, the biggest and most important decisions Green will have to make: adding an experienced offensive coordinator and o-line coach. It's time to put this potentially high powered offense in the hands of some real pros.

 

[duckfallas]

Warner is gone. It is about time McCown came out and started slinging the ball. If he had played like this last year Warner wouldn't be here.

I don't understand why the Cards are keeping a roster spot open for Rolle. If they had a real CB in the line up on those last two drives instead of a backup safety, it might have been the difference. Let Adrian Wilson cover Smith if you are going to put one guy on him. That was a stupid coaching decision.
The coaching was stupid all over the place. Jut like in the first home game. What is is about home games that makes these coaches go in the tank? Usually it is the players doing that.

 

[cdex99]

I would have to say that Josh is guy to go with after these last two games. He's clearly more comfortable throwing the ball downfield and has a nice understanding of the offense. If we can get the ground game going, who knows what this team will be capable of doing. With Josh in the game, the offense has owned time of possesion and has found the endzone more times than with Kurt in the game.

 

[Russ Smith]

I'd franchise him in a heartbeat.

It's why the Chargers do that with Brees.

It makes sense and they have the cap room, we do too. Sure Josh hit's the lottery but the most damaging mistake you could make is locking up the wrong guy long term.

I don't think in today's NFL wasting a few million more than a QB is worth is a big deal, I know that sounds funny but it's true.

What it allows us to do is to draft a QB without paying a couple years price and that's worth a lot.

Typically you do that to sign a guy to a huge new deal. SD did it to get another year comparison Brees to Rivers. I'd be surprised if we did it to Josh because quite frankly part of the attraction to Josh is he's inexpensive for a QB. You franchise him you're not going to come back and get him to sign a 4 year 24 million deal, he's going to want 8 plus a year.

 

[Russ Smith]

At LB...look for the Cards to make a major acquisition...Lavar Arrington, who is a huge fan of Dennis Green, may be the choice. Arrington was despondent when the Redskins bypassed Green for their head coaching job two years ago...and Green may be just the coach Arrington needs to get him back in the elite company at LB where he belongs.

Yet, the biggest and most important decisions Green will have to make: adding an experienced offensive coordinator and o-line coach. It's time to put this potentially high powered offense in the hands of some real pros.

Doesn't Arrington essentially play the same position Dansby does? He's available right now reportedly, highly overpaid but he is talented.

 

[duckfallas]

McCown at least gives you some running game. He makes mistakes but so does Warner. See game two last minute debacle.

 

[Shane]

McCown at least gives you some running game. He makes mistakes but so does Warner. See game two last minute debacle.

Not just the last two minutes. Check out a 10 minute span in the first half where he overthrew a wide open Johnson two times on deep routes, fumbled twice losing one and losing yards on the other. Add with that an Int and the last two minute debacle.

I just dont see all the Warner manlove

 

[JeffGollin]

Whether or not the season is or isn't "washed up", I see Dennis having two priorities: (1) teaching these guys how to win (and how not to lose) and (2) improving play at each position.

Within this context, I see him utilizing a "QB By Committee" and playing the hot hand each week (and maybe even each half or quarter).

 

[Bobcat]

The season is over, it does not matter anymore...I say let Josh play out the season to see if he is worth keeping next season.

He had a decent game today...

Boldin was a beast, but his fumble killed us, just killed us!

1-4 means season in completly finished. Typical Cardinal loss while dominating the game...

This post is so typical of a fan who has no faith in his team. I have seen teams go 1 and 4 and still make the playoffs. It is a mind set. And it seems that your mind set is of a person who gives up at the drop of the hat.

Sorry if you feel that I am being a bit harsh, but if the shoe fits you must wear it.

He is a good example. My brother had Testicular cancer back in 1982. The doctors here in Phoenix gave him only 6 months to live. Mom and Dad moved him to Tucson and got him a new cancer doctor's at the U of A. Well Guy just turned 50 this past Jan. Today because of the experimental type of treatments done to him at the U of A Medical Center Guy is still alive. Lance Armstrong is alive today due to the treatments that my brother was experitmented with. Oh Yes Stemcells were used. This is for all of you none believers. It was done from one College to another college, for experimental purposes. We also have a freind in Montana who was given only one year to live with her cancer. Well stem-cells to the resque again!!!

So to the person who originated this post please show some faith and just maybe, maybe the Cardinals and you may have a change of fortune. They need encuragement now, not jumping off of the band wagon.

Bobcat

 

[Redsz]

Mitch just nailed it with his post. The light has gone on for Josh and I am happy for him. He had a fantastic game for 2nd week in a row and clearly is the better QB at this point.

 

[arthurracoon]

I'm fine with whatever DG does in this situation. Josh looked great for 6 out of 8 quarters of football, but I can't say with any certainty that Warner wouldn't have looked equally great (if not greater). Who knows?

I'm cool with either guy starting in the next game.

I concur.

 

[chickenhead]

Well, the bottom line is I'll be cheering for whoever is throwing the ball. At the beginning of the year I believed Warner could recapture his old form, and frankly, still think he can with more time and more protection. However, the same can probably be said with regards to Josh's development, so who knows.

 

[clif]

Why would you go back to Warner? This team is not going to the playoffs, so what we he provide that McCown isn't?

This team needs to develop talent for this future. Regardless if you think Josh is the Qb of the future.. it is pretty much more clear that Warner isn't so why waste finding out if Josh can continue developing?