Old Gambo Rumor

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Our team doesnt require a true center to win games.

No, but it does require someone that can play somewhat acceptable defense on post players if it expects to win a championship. Replacing Thomas with someon like Drew Gooden will inevitably mean Tim Duncan, Elton Brand, and others scoring at will come playoff time and another exit unless somehow Suns get another miracle draw like this year.

 

[F-Dog]

No, but it does require someone that can play somewhat acceptable defense on post players if it expects to win a championship. Replacing Thomas with someon like Drew Gooden will inevitably mean Tim Duncan, Elton Brand, and others scoring at will come playoff time and another exit unless somehow Suns get another miracle draw like this year.

Here's an idea--instead of paying big bucks for Gooden, why not trade for Troy Murphy instead? He'll make about the same money, he can shoot threes, and he guards Tim Duncan pretty well--you have to see it to believe it, but he always does a good job.


Oh yeah, Murphy is too expensive. The Suns can't afford him.

 

[jandaman]

As someone stated, I rather have players like Foster and Pollard from Indiana.. than Gooden..

The Suns have Amare, and Marion... they need the players like Pollard and Foster, for post defense and just hustle/effort..

 

[NastyOne]

No, but it does require someone that can play somewhat acceptable defense on post players if it expects to win a championship. Replacing Thomas with someon like Drew Gooden will inevitably mean Tim Duncan, Elton Brand, and others scoring at will come playoff time and another exit unless somehow Suns get another miracle draw like this year.

With a healthy Raja Bell we would have probably made it into the Finals, and thats with Tim Thomas playing center.

And there is no way in hell the heat beat us.

People need to stop living in the past, you no longer need a true center in the NBA.

We put Amare or Gooden on the Duncan's,Garnetts and Brands and we're good.Cause all we need to do is contain them enough that they're not dominating, because our offense will be unstoppable.

Hell we could even let them dominate, look at Brand versus us... And we still beat them without a bigman.

And now we would have Amare and Gooden.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

With a healthy Raja Bell we would have probably made it into the Finals, and thats with Tim Thomas playing center.

And there is no way in hell the heat beat us.

That's speculation, in Game 1 Raja was healthy for the majority of the game and it took a complete miracle to beat the Mavs. And that's without even mentioning the breaks the Suns got just to get past a couple marginal teams in the Clippers and Lakers. Trust me there is no way in hell the Suns get the favorable draw they got this year. Getting two inexperienced and mediocre teams and a soft team that matches up perfectly in the Western Conference playoffs will not happen again.

People need to stop living in the past, you no longer need a true center in the NBA.

Never said you needed a true center (Kurt Thomas isn't a true center yet I recommend keeping him) just someone that can effectively guard post players by making them work on offense.

We put Amare or Gooden on the Duncan's,Garnetts and Brands and we're good.Cause all we need to do is contain them enough that they're not dominating, because our offense will be unstoppable.

Hell we could even let them dominate, look at Brand versus us... And we still beat them without a bigman.

And now we would have Amare and Gooden.

Since that worked out so well two years ago? How you forget Amare scoring at will but letting up almost as many on the other end of the court and the Spurs destroying us. And don't bring up barely beating the mediocrity known as the Clippers or Lakers as some shining example of the no defense strategy working. The Clippers were basically Cassel, a bunch of playoff rookies, and a completely moronic head coach and the series still went the distance. Same with the Lakers who were Kobe, a headcase,and a bunch of scrubs yet were a rebound away from knocking them out in six.

No interior defense = no championship. BC realized this and got Bell and KT for the big stops that you need in the postseason. I just hope D'Antoni hasn't fallen so much in love with his system that he thinks he can simply outscore everybody and not worry about the other side of the ball.

 

[NastyOne]

That's speculation, in Game 1 Raja was healthy for the majority of the game and it took a complete miracle to beat the Mavs. And that's without even mentioning the breaks the Suns got just to get past a couple marginal teams in the Clippers and Lakers. Trust me there is no way in hell the Suns get the favorable draw they got this year. Getting two inexperienced and mediocre teams and a soft team that matches up perfectly in the Western Conference playoffs will not happen again.

How do you know that? Last time i checked the Spurs arent as good as they were two years ago.They also only have one good bigman now too.

We matchup way better with them now that Rasho and Nazi are gone.

Never said you needed a true center (Kurt Thomas isn't a true center yet I recommend keeping him) just someone that can effectively guard post players by making them work on offense.

Amare and Gooden can do that, remember to that our problem wasnt getting torched by teams bigmen on the first possesion, it was the damn offensive rebounds that kept doing us in.And Gooden is a better rebounder than Kurt Thomas.

Since that worked out so well two years ago? How you forget Amare scoring at will but letting up almost as many on the other end of the court and the Spurs destroying us. And don't bring up barely beating the mediocrity known as the Clippers or Lakers as some shining example of the no defense strategy working. The Clippers were basically Cassel, a bunch of playoff rookies, and a completely moronic head coach and the series still went the distance. Same with the Lakers who were Kobe, a headcase,and a bunch of scrubs yet were a rebound away from knocking them out in six.

No interior defense = no championship. BC realized this and got Bell and KT for the big stops that you need in the postseason. I just hope D'Antoni hasn't fallen so much in love with his system that he thinks he can simply outscore everybody and not worry about the other side of the ball.

This is a whole new team, and the new guys on this team have proven they can play in the playoffs. (Bell and Diaw, plus Barbosa is now experienced in the playoffs and showed that)

Add that with Amare and Gooden and we would have one of the best rebounding frontcourts in the NBA to go along with Marion and Diaw.

And thats what killed us in the playoffs not our defense on star bigmen, giving up second chance after second chance did us in because we kept getting killed on the boards.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

How do you know that? Last time i checked the Spurs arent as good as they were two years ago.They also only have one good bigman now too.

We matchup way better with them now that Rasho and Nazi are gone.

That's why the set a franchise record for single season victories this year in spite of going through nagging injuries for much of the season. The Suns still don;t match up well with the Spurs even without Nazr and Nestorovich, this last regular season proves as much.

Amare and Gooden can do that, remember to that our problem wasnt getting torched by teams bigmen on the first possesion, it was the damn offensive rebounds that kept doing us in.And Gooden is a better rebounder than Kurt Thomas.

Um, okay. Gooden is not even an adequate defensive player and D'Antoni consistently criticizes Amare for his defense. And if you don't think getting torched on defense is a problem for the Suns, I don't know what I can tell you except that you're beginning to remind me of Don Nelson.

This is a whole new team, and the new guys on this team have proven they can play in the playoffs. (Bell and Diaw, plus Barbosa is now experienced in the playoffs and showed that)

Add that with Amare and Gooden and we would have one of the best rebounding frontcourts in the NBA to go along with Marion and Diaw.

And thats what killed us in the playoffs not our defense on star bigmen, giving up second chance after second chance did us in because we kept getting killed on the boards.

That's because we played one star interior big man (Brand) who killed us and were a Raja Bell Hail Mary away from getting bounced by that team who happened to define mediocrity and coaching incompetence. Dirk killed the Suns and so did Odom before they brought double teams and they're not even interior players. Lord knows what Duncan would have done as he is much better than Brand ever will be. But feel free to continue burying your head in the sand regarding the horrific defense this team plays, I just D'Antoni isn't doing the same

 

[JCSunsfan]

Um, okay. Gooden is not even an adequate defensive player and D'Antoni consistently criticizes Amare for his defense. And if you don't think getting torched on defense is a problem for the Suns, I don't know what I can tell you except that you're beginning to remind me of Don Nelson.

Oh really, when does he do this routine criticism? I haven't heard DAntoni criticise ANYONE on this team regularly for their defense. I haven't even heard MD criticize the TEAM regularly for its defense. Raja did some last year, but the coach didn't.

 

[panfolk]

Here's an idea--instead of paying big bucks for Gooden, why not trade for Troy Murphy instead? He'll make about the same money, he can shoot threes, and he guards Tim Duncan pretty well--you have to see it to believe it, but he always does a good job.


Oh yeah, Murphy is too expensive. The Suns can't afford him.

Murphy's one of those guys I always suspected would be good on the Suns. So if he can defend at all I'd say go for it.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Oh really, when does he do this routine criticism? I haven't heard DAntoni criticise ANYONE on this team regularly for their defense. I haven't even heard MD criticize the TEAM regularly for its defense. Raja did some last year, but the coach didn't.

Here's one I found rather quickly. I could find more examples if I really wanted to.

For us to be a top-tier team", D'Antoni said (when referring to Amare), "then obviously his defense and rebounding have to pick up.

http://www.ringsurf.com/info/Sports/Basketball/NBA/NBA_Player_of_the_Week/Amare_Stoudamire/

 

[sunsfn]

Murphy's one of those guys I always suspected would be good on the Suns. So if he can defend at all I'd say go for it.

Murphy is not coming to the suns with this salary.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Troy Murphy - [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]$8,285,714 - [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]$9,206,349 - [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]$10,126,984 - [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]$11,047,619 - [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]$11,968,253[/FONT]

 

[JCSunsfan]

Here's one I found rather quickly. I could find more examples if I really wanted to.



http://www.ringsurf.com/info/Sports/Basketball/NBA/NBA_Player_of_the_Week/Amare_Stoudamire/

One comment, almost two years ago.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

One comment, almost two years ago.

no one here reads a thing. he said that he found one comment w/o even having to search very hard, intimating that if he chose to search hard he could find more. and i wouldn't be surprised if he could.

as for the "almost two years ago" part . . . c'mon, was dantoni supposed to criticize his defense during a season in which amare didn't play? we're supposed to believe that dantoni's opinion of amare's defense will have changed b/c amare's sat for a year and had two knee surgeries? come with something stronger. your one-liner was weak.

 

[JCSunsfan]

no one here reads a thing. he said that he found one comment w/o even having to search very hard, intimating that if he chose to search hard he could find more. and i wouldn't be surprised if he could.

as for the "almost two years ago" part . . . c'mon, was dantoni supposed to criticize his defense during a season in which amare didn't play? we're supposed to believe that dantoni's opinion of amare's defense will have changed b/c amare's sat for a year and had two knee surgeries? come with something stronger. your one-liner was weak.

I read it. Do YOU read? Anyone can google one comment over a career. Its easy.

It doesn't make his point. Its not about DAntoni's opinion of Amare's defense, its about DAntoni "constistently criticizing Amare's defense"--which DAntoni does not do.

Find me, oh lets say, 10 separate instances of criticism by the coach. Would that be enough to define "consistent." How about 5 separate instances since the close of Amare's rookie year. I don't even think I would count that as "consistent."

I hardly have a life outside of work and the Suns. I have read practically everything written on this team for 20 plus years. If the coach was consistently criticising a player's defense, I am sure I would have picked up on it.

I suppose I could be proven wrong, but I highly doubt it.

 

[boisesuns]

I agree with Mao that our defense needs some work. It's better than it has been, but it still can use some help. Inside intimidation or some kind of presence would help. I think KT showed he can be that. On paper it looks good with him and Amare coming back.

Last season, I saw some things about our defense that drove me crazy. We are running and gunning on offense but why not on defense? Our defensive rotation wasn't solid at all, and it led to some easy baskets and many layups.

There were some issues with matchup problems on bigger guys, and I think that's why people are wanting to bring a guy like gooden in. Is he a solution to some defensive lapses? Maybe in some ways, but I think the whole team needs to step it up.

 

[NastyOne]

I agree with Mao that our defense needs some work. It's better than it has been, but it still can use some help. Inside intimidation or some kind of presence would help. I think KT showed he can be that. On paper it looks good with him and Amare coming back.

Last season, I saw some things about our defense that drove me crazy. We are running and gunning on offense but why not on defense? Our defensive rotation wasn't solid at all, and it led to some easy baskets and many layups.

There were some issues with matchup problems on bigger guys, and I think that's why people are wanting to bring a guy like gooden in. Is he a solution to some defensive lapses? Maybe in some ways, but I think the whole team needs to step it up.

This will never be a good defensive team, Why?

Cause the players would be dead if they put as much effort into defense as they do offense.

We can't have it both ways, we either keep our crazy fast pace offense or we stop that and play defense.

It's unrealistic to expect the guys to give 100% on both sides of the court without passing out from fatigue.

Thats why D'Antoni just wants stops at the end of the game when needed.

So all this BS about we lost because of poor defense is ********.

We lost not because we couldnt get the stops when needed, but we couldnt get the damn rebound and had to play defense all over again, and that takes away a scoring opportunity from us.

Thats why the Lakers & Clippers series were so close.(Lost to Mavs cause of injuries and fatigue)

How many times did Odom,Kwame Brown,Brand,Kaman and others keep drives alive cause they beat us to the glass for the offensive rebound?

That takes alot out of the team, cause they want to run, not have to go back to playing defense for 48 or more seconds cause they can't secure the rebound.

Give this team an athletic bigman that can run with us and rebound like a beast, and this team is going to be damn hard to stop from winning the title.

Thats why alot of us liked Tyson Chandler when he was available, but only if he could stay healthy.

Others are Samuel Dalembert,Drew Gooden and Chris Wilcox.

 

[boisesuns]

This will never be a good defensive team, Why?

Cause the players would be dead if they put as much effort into defense as they do offense.

We can't have it both ways, we either keep our crazy fast pace offense or we stop that and play defense.

It's unrealistic to expect the guys to give 100% on both sides of the court without passing out from fatigue.

Thats why D'Antoni just wants stops at the end of the game when needed.

So all this BS about we lost because of poor defense is ********.

We lost not because we couldnt get the stops when needed, but we couldnt get the damn rebound and had to play defense all over again, and that takes away a scoring opportunity from us.

Thats why the Lakers & Clippers series were so close.(Lost to Mavs cause of injuries and fatigue)

How many times did Odom,Kwame Brown,Brand,Kaman and others keep drives alive cause they beat us to the glass for the offensive rebound?

That takes alot out of the team, cause they want to run, not have to go back to playing defense for 48 or more seconds cause they can't secure the rebound.

Give this team an athletic bigman that can run with us and rebound like a beast, and this team is going to be damn hard to stop from winning the title.

Thats why alot of us liked Tyson Chandler when he was available, but only if he could stay healthy.

Others are Samuel Dalembert,Drew Gooden and Chris Wilcox.

I don't think it's BS to say that we lost becuase of no defense. We are known for giving up huge leads as well. There were times when we could not get a board or a stop to save our lives. I do think part of it is our lack of depth, but not all of it.

I'm with you about getting a big man. Someone to backup/spell Amare. Its tough because I think we need someone with some respect of offensive ability becuase Amare could be fine, or he could have troubles. Of the guys we've talked about, it's hard to say if they have much ability to score but I think any one of them would help this team.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

I don't think it's BS to say that we lost becuase of no defense. We are known for giving up huge leads as well. There were times when we could not get a board or a stop to save our lives. I do think part of it is our lack of depth, but not all of it.

I'm with you about getting a big man. Someone to backup/spell Amare. Its tough because I think we need someone with some respect of offensive ability becuase Amare could be fine, or he could have troubles. Of the guys we've talked about, it's hard to say if they have much ability to score but I think any one of them would help this team.

The league has changed, the average backdown big guy is almost extinct. The few that are good are very rare, wasting big money on a risky stiff like Wilcox is not something the Suns can afford.
The Suns philosophy is on the leading cusp of the NBA revolution, the teams focused on defense will soon become the bottom feeders as the league forces more and more disadvantages on them, I believe we have seen the beginning of this as the "defense minded teams" were surplanted this last season and now it will only become more obvious over the next 5 years. The league wants this and will continue to change the rules and calls to favor offense, look what it has done for the NFL.
In the end it's about money and the purists who like seeing slow down ball and defense didin't step up with their wallets in the last decade, now they will be made to suffer.

Amare will help stop runs by getting to the line, just watch you'll see.

 

[boisesuns]

I agree tree, that the game is going that diection, but being able to stop people when the game is on the line puts you over the edge. I'm not saying a big man will do that, but someone to at least stop a drive now and then would be nice.

We need to be able to containt the guys like Wade, Kobe, Lebron ect when it counts late in the game, becuase they are going to get the shots that send us home.

I do hope Amare gets to the line plenty of times!

 

[NastyOne]

The league has changed, the average backdown big guy is almost extinct. The few that are good are very rare, wasting big money on a risky stiff like Wilcox is not something the Suns can afford.
The Suns philosophy is on the leading cusp of the NBA revolution, the teams focused on defense will soon become the bottom feeders as the league forces more and more disadvantages on them, I believe we have seen the beginning of this as the "defense minded teams" were surplanted this last season and now it will only become more obvious over the next 5 years. The league wants this and will continue to change the rules and calls to favor offense, look what it has done for the NFL.
In the end it's about money and the purists who like seeing slow down ball and defense didin't step up with their wallets in the last decade, now they will be made to suffer.

Amare will help stop runs by getting to the line, just watch you'll see.

I agree with everything you said, except the part about Chris Wilcox being a stiff.

Hes a great athlete.

I think this is another guy that could flourish playing in our offense.

Look what he did with Seattle when he got playing time, and they play kinda similar to us.

 

[sunsfn]

Chris Wilcox is a high flyer that can run and gun. He finally got a chance on a better team.
He will probably never be a sun because he is now getting in the big money situation, but he could definitely play with the suns and be an excellent player for them. He is 6' 10" - 6' 11" and would be great in the middle.

 

[Muggum]

Gooden's basically a bum. Used goods.

 

[NastyOne]

Gooden's basically a bum. Used goods.

Hes a bum thats a hellva athlete and would be top 5 in the NBA for rebounding, if he got the same minutes as the other league leaders for rebounding.

Plus he has a decent outside shot and has a real nasty spin move that resembles Amare's.

Used goods? Hes 25 years old for christ sake lol

Hes just not consistent, but maybe a new coach and system fixes that.

Its worth the risk imo

 

[boisesuns]

Hes a bum thats a hellva athlete and would be top 5 in the NBA for rebounding, if he got the same minutes as the other league leaders for rebounding.

Plus he has a decent outside shot and has a real nasty spin move that resembles Amare's.

Used goods? Hes 25 years old for christ sake lol

Hes just not consistent, but maybe a new coach and system fixes that.

Its worth the risk imo

Did he fall out of favor with the Cavs or was he injured? I can't quite remember.

 

[sunsfn]

Did he fall out of favor with the Cavs or was he injured? I can't quite remember.

Not sure what you mean here?

He wants a big contract and Cleveland is balking at giving him one, so they are looking for a sign and trade with someone.