Old Gambo Rumor

[Joe Mama]

The Phoenix Suns lost to the Dallas Mavericks in the Western Conference finals because they couldn't score in the second half, and they really couldn't slow down the Mavericks consistently. Most of that had to do with injuries. By the way, securing defensive rebounds is generally considered part of playing defense.

I actually think that a lineup of:

Bell
Nash
Marion
Diaw
and Kurt Thomas

Is better defensively than

Bell
Nash
Marion
Stoudemire
and Kurt Thomas

Joe Mama

 

[NastyOne]

Did he fall out of favor with the Cavs or was he injured? I can't quite remember.

He gets himself into the coaches doghouse cause hes not consistent on offense or defense every game.

One thing he does everynight though is working the glass.

He really is a great rebounder, and if he played defense like he rebounded, he wouldnt even be available right now cause he would already have a huge contract.

If he was a good defender, he would play 35+mpg and lead the NBA in rebounding.But his lack of good defense gets him less minutes.

 

[sunsfn]

I thought I would add this about Gooden.

Now the Cavaliers' focus is directed on signing restricted free agent Drew Gooden, but the negotiations are dragging. Rumblings of a sign-and-trade have begun -- Phoenix, Chicago, Boston and Philadelphia are interested in Gooden, according to several league sources.
-- Cleveland Plain Dealer

 

[NastyOne]

I thought I would add this about Gooden.

Now the Cavaliers' focus is directed on signing restricted free agent Drew Gooden, but the negotiations are dragging. Rumblings of a sign-and-trade have begun -- Phoenix, Chicago, Boston and Philadelphia are interested in Gooden, according to several league sources.
-- Cleveland Plain Dealer

Yeah thats why we're talking about this, cause that was reported yesterday.

Out of all 4 teams, the Suns can send the Cavs the best package.

Cleveland is trying to win the East now and keep Lebron happy, so take Chicago and Boston out of the teams with something to offer the Cavs.Boston has young players that Arent developed and Chicago has either rookies or guardforwards, and Cleveland probably isnt interested in either.Not to mention that Chicago already has Wallace and Ty Thomas, so why would they need Gooden?

Philly is over the cap with some bad contracts, and the only deal they could do is Dalembert for Gooden in a sign and trade.

Doubt Philly does that unless the Cavs threw something else good in the package.And Cavs don't even have a first round pick to sweeten the deal.

So if the Suns really want him, offer comes down to Kurt Thomas for Drew Gooden, and maybe even send the Cavs their first rounder back.

Cavs need a half court forward that excells at low post defense(One of their weaknesses), and we need a athletic bigman that can run with us and dominate the boards.

Win-Win for both teams imo

 

[F-Dog]

Win-Win for both teams imo

Sure, right up until the Suns dump Boris Diaw next summer to avoid paying the luxury tax.

 

[NastyOne]

Sure, right up until the Suns dump Boris Diaw next summer to avoid paying the luxury tax.

Or the smarter and more realistic move would be to move Marion to a team under the cap.

 

[F-Dog]

Or the smarter and more realistic move would be to move Marion to a team under the cap.

Or, smartest of all, they could keep Diaw and Marion and not sign Drew Average-en in the first place.

 

[NastyOne]

Or, smartest of all, they could keep Diaw and Marion and not sign Drew Average-en in the first place.

With Gooden or without Gooden, Marion's going to be traded next summer.

Unless Sarver has a change of heart and doesnt have a problem with paying a boatload of taxes after resigning Diaw and Barbosa while still keeping Marion.

Thats why its good idea to trade for a 25 year old thats a great rebounder and will make way less money than Marion.

Cause we would have a replacement for Marion when hes traded.

 

[F-Dog]

With Gooden or without Gooden, Marion's going to be traded next summer.

Not if KT gets traded this summer.

In any case, Average-en is not a suitable replacement for Shawn. If the Suns are willing to pay $10m/yr for a forward and dump Marion in the bargain, there are plenty of better players to choose from--Murphy (of course), Okur, Bobby Simmons, even Chris Wilcox. Hell, for that price, the Suns might be able to get their hands on Darko Milicic.

 

[NastyOne]

Not if KT gets traded this summer.

In any case, Average-en is not a suitable replacement for Shawn. If the Suns are willing to pay $10m/yr for a forward and dump Marion in the bargain, there are plenty of better players to choose from--Murphy (of course), Okur, Bobby Simmons, even Chris Wilcox. Hell, for that price, the Suns might be able to get their hands on Darko Milicic.

Who said Gooden will get $10Mil per?

He'll get somewhere between $7-9Mil.

And Even if we trade Kurt Thomas, we won't get the cap relief Marion would give us, cause no team will take on his contract without sending money back our way.

Thats the reason for the Thomas for Gooden deal. Its big contract for a soon to be big contract.

Someone under the cap will take Marion though for Draft picks and players on small contracts.

Marion's gone one way or another by 07/08, im pretty sure everyone realizes this.

 

[F-Dog]

And Even if we trade Kurt Thomas, we won't get the cap relief Marion would give us, cause no team will take on his contract without sending money back our way.

If you trade KT for Hunter/Ollie, which is the rumored package, then you get $5m in cap relief next season. With the new numbers, that's all the Suns will need to keep Diaw.

Marion is worth a hell of a lot more than Average-en, so you don't put yourself over a barrel where you have to suddenly dump Marion for immediate cap relief. You wait to trade Marion until you can get something good.

 

[F-Dog]

Who said Gooden will get $10Mil per?

He'll get somewhere between $7-9Mil.

He is asking for $10m/yr.

In any case, the numbers are irrelevant if the consequence either way is that the Suns have to dump Diaw or Marion.

 

[JS22]

Or, smartest of all, they could keep Diaw and Marion and not sign Drew Average-en in the first place.

Sorry, but Marion is as good as gone next year if Diaw stays. This isn't fantasy basketball, unfortunately. Even if KT is dumped. (Barbosa.)

 

[NastyOne]

He is asking for $10m/yr.

In any case, the numbers are irrelevant if the consequence either way is that the Suns have to dump Diaw or Marion.

Just cause a player wants $10Mil doesnt mean he'll get it.

Look at Barbosa, really think he'll get the $7-8 per he wants?

And trading Marion would allow us to keep Diaw and Gooden without going to much over the cap.

Our big contracts would be Amare,Nash,Diaw and Gooden.

Barbosa and Bell would be making around the same amount, which is $5-6Mil.

Thats six players, and the rest of the roster can be vet min guys and guys on rookie contracts.Not scrub rookies either, cause we would have a lotto pick from trading Marion and maybe 1-2 more guys on Rook deals from moving Marion and ATL's pick which will also be a lotto pick.

Thats a good young roster that will contend and Sarver won't have reason to gripe about the payroll.

 

[devilalum]

Just cause a player wants $10Mil doesnt mean he'll get it.

Look at Barbosa, really think he'll get the $7-8 per he wants?

And trading Marion would allow us to keep Diaw and Gooden without going to much over the cap.

Our big contracts would be Amare,Nash,Diaw and Gooden.

Barbosa and Bell would be making around the same amount, which is $5-6Mil.

Thats six players, and the rest of the roster can be vet min guys and guys on rookie contracts.Not scrub rookies either, cause we would have a lotto pick from trading Marion and maybe 1-2 more guys on Rook deals from moving Marion and ATL's pick which will also be a lotto pick.

Thats a good young roster that will contend and Sarver won't have reason to gripe about the payroll.

LB is not nearly as valuable as Raja. Why should he make the same amount?

 

[NastyOne]

LB is not nearly as valuable as Raja. Why should he make the same amount?

Doesnt matter, thats what the market says he should be paid.

Look what older players than him got this offseason (S.Claxton,B.jackson,J.Salmon and M.James)

 

[JCSunsfan]

If you trade KT for Hunter/Ollie, which is the rumored package, then you get $5m in cap relief next season. With the new numbers, that's all the Suns will need to keep Diaw.

Marion is worth a hell of a lot more than Average-en, so you don't put yourself over a barrel where you have to suddenly dump Marion for immediate cap relief. You wait to trade Marion until you can get something good.

Actually, I was ready a Hunter/Korver for KT package. Just rumor, I am sure.

 

[devilalum]

Doesnt matter, thats what the market says he should be paid.

Look what older players than him got this offseason (S.Claxton,B.jackson,J.Salmon and M.James)

I don't know that LB is better than any of those guys right now. For all the potential everybody thinks LB seems to have there are a lot of holes in his game.

He doesn't handle the ball well enough to run the team.
He's to small to play the 2.
He drives with blinders.
He can't finish worth a crap.
His shooting mechanics are all screwed up.
He doesn't move his feet well on D.....

 

[NastyOne]

I don't know that LB is better than any of those guys right now. For all the potential everybody thinks LB seems to have there are a lot of holes in his game.

He doesn't handle the ball well enough to run the team.
He's to small to play the 2.
He drives with blinders.
He can't finish worth a crap.
His shooting mechanics are all screwed up.
He doesn't move his feet well on D.....

I'd take Leo over all those guards that got big contracts this offseason.

On potential alone Leo will get a $5-6Mil per year contract from some team trying to steal him from us when he becomes a RFA.

He might have alot of holes in his game, but hes only 23 years old and he can put points on the board in a hurry.

 

[Covert Rain]

First off nobody knows what the salary cap will be. It's far from certain that Marion will ever be traded. Also, I hope for the Suns they are trying to acquire something equal to KT. Because depending on Diaw (who doesn't rebound or play defense) or depending on some combo of players to replace KT.

Everybody knows this team needs more rebounding and defense. Not less. Amare should help out but even when we had Amare he wasn't enough. That's why we added KT. Now we are talking of trading him??

If this off-season is any indication, something tells me this trade is a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[NastyOne]

If this off-season is any indication, something tells me this trade is a disaster waiting to happen.

I think Kurt Thomas is a disaster waiting to happen.

Trade him before he blows out another wheel trying to keep up with the team for an entire season.

Like i said earlier in the thread...

6 straight years with New York in that slow offense and he never missed more than 5 games in a season.

Comes here at 34 years old, is asked to run & gun and he gets hurt missing more games than he did combined playing with the Knicks for 6 years.(And thats not even including the playoffs)

Anyone have faith in a old Kurt Thomas staying healthy playing our style of ball?

 

[myrondizzo]

Anyone have faith in a old Kurt Thomas staying healthy playing our style of ball?

yep. with his reduced role with amare comming back and the emergence of diaw i think he should be fine.

 

[Chaplin]

Anyone have faith in a old Kurt Thomas staying healthy playing our style of ball?

Why not? He's never had injury problems throughout his career. It's not like the foot problem is a recurring injury he's had for years.

 

[NastyOne]

Why not? He's never had injury problems throughout his career. It's not like the foot problem is a recurring injury he's had for years.

He also never had to play on a team that ran at this pace.

With Van Gundy and Herb Williams the Knicks had the slowest offense in the NBA.

Thomas has no athletic ability(I can count the amount of times he dunked the ball on one hand !IN HIS CAREER!), Hes 34 years old, and he already suffered an injury to his leg last season playing at our pace.

I said it would happen when we traded for him, and it happened like i knew it would.

There is no way Thomas can stay healthy for the season if he plays any kind of real minutes.

Thats why D'Antoni is probably trying to move him, Well atleast according to reports.

 

[Hugh D'Man]

I'm all 4 KT for DG.

If KT plays fewer minutes in a 'reduced role'...won't his defensive contributions be 'reduced' as well ? Getting an athletic player like Gooden, who has all of the qualities needed for D'Ants offensive philosophy is too good to pass on. He can Run, Shoot, Rebound, Dunk, needs a change of scenery, and is D U R A B L E. He averages nearly a double double with Cleveland and their one man band. We get him, we have added a replacement and compliment for Amare. If we can get Pavlovic tossed in the deal, thats two birds one stone and would be the clincher IMO. He is another player who is right up D'Ants alley...and exactly what they've been shopping for, a good shooter, ball handler, athletic SG. That kid could explode here and make you forget all about resigning Barbosa. (Luke Jackson may be more attractive due to his contract)

KT, 1.8 trade exception, the worst of Phnx and Cleve 07 1st.
for
Gooden , Pavlovic

Phnx then signs Pollard.

Or trades Marion for Wilcox...but thats another story.