OT Joey Bosa

[Bodha]

There is if you can be cut without the team paying 100% of the money that they agreed to pay. Clearly this issue isn't as black and white as you make it seem.

No, because there is a floor of expectation. The expectation is to be at least worth X amount. And if the player were truly giving 100% effort and talent, then that shouldnt be a problem.

So Bosa should accept worse Financial Security as the 3rd pick than picks 4 through 24 just because he plays for the Chargers?
This one is on the Chargers

Yep

Who said lifes fair?

He plays for San Diego not Detroit. San Diego signs his checks not Minnesota.

 

[Azlen]

No player worth anything should hold out over offset language. It really only comes into play if you're a bust and you still get all your guaranteed money, you just don't get your guaranteed money plus extra from another team.

 

[BACH]

No player worth anything should hold out over offset language. It really only comes into play if you're a bust and you still get all your guaranteed money, you just don't get your guaranteed money plus extra from another team.

Nope!
Read above. Two issues. Offset language AND guaranteed money.
If Bosa has a career ending injury in his first year he's only getting half...

 

[Azlen]

Nope!
Read above. Two issues. Offset language AND guaranteed money.
If Bosa has a career ending injury in his first year he's only getting half...

I know, what I am saying that he doesn't need both. Take the early money and screw the offset language stuff. If he has a career ending injury, he's not signing with another team anyway. If the Chargers refuse to give him one then they're just being idiots.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

No, because there is a floor of expectation. The expectation is to be at least worth X amount. And if the player were truly giving 100% effort and talent, then that shouldnt be a problem.




Yep

Who said lifes fair?

He plays for San Diego not Detroit. San Diego signs his checks not Minnesota.

Expectation isn't always the reason why players are getting cut. Management can decide that he makes too much money and cut someone, even if they are producing.

Nice try though.

So life's not fair is the argument that you are using as pro-management and not pro-player. Sigh.

 

[Bodha]

Expectation isn't always the reason why players are getting cut. Management can decide that he makes too much money and cut someone, even if they are producing.

Nice try though.

So life's not fair is the argument that you are using as pro-management and not pro-player. Sigh.

It is pro management. You sound very entitled. Im a football player therefore I deserve X

That's fine, you can be an football player. OR you can be an NFL player. An NFL player plays for the NFL. Which is a company. Which means you are an employee.

I work for a company. Most on this board are employees. We adhere to the rules set by our bosses. It sucks, but welcome to life. You don't like it? Become an entrepreneur.

If the players don't like the bosses, then go start your own league. They aren't special. How come you think athletes deserve special rules compared to average civilians? If you don't like your job, then change it.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

It is pro management. You sound very entitled. Im a football player therefore I deserve X

That's fine, you can be an football player. OR you can be an NFL player. An NFL player plays for the NFL. Which is a company. Which means you are an employee.

I work for a company. Most on this board are employees. We adhere to the rules set by our bosses. It sucks, but welcome to life. You don't like it? Become an entrepreneur.

If the players don't like the bosses, then go start your own league. They aren't special. How come you think athletes deserve special rules compared to average civilians? If you don't like your job, then change it.

I will let this slight for the sake of discussion.

Why do I think they deserve special rules? Most contracts for 'average citizens' can't be terminated by one party unilaterally by management/company whatever without cause. In fact, the NFL and their contract structure isn't even typical of major sports in this country either. NBA, NHL, MLB all have guaranteed player contracts. So it is the NFL that has these 'special rules' that you are against, and yet aren't in the NFL's case for some reason.

 

[BACH]

I know, what I am saying that he doesn't need both. Take the early money and screw the offset language stuff. If he has a career ending injury, he's not signing with another team anyway. If the Chargers refuse to give him one then they're just being idiots.

Read again. He has offered to accept one or the other. That's dispite Elliot at #4 and all previous 3rd overall picks getting both. He has offered to annull either offset language or the structure of the signing bonus. The Chargers won't give him Either of them

 

[Big D]

The Chargers look like fools. I don't think they could have had a worse off season. Can't say that it bothers me too much.

 

[BACH]

It is pro management. You sound very entitled. Im a football player therefore I deserve X

That's fine, you can be an football player. OR you can be an NFL player. An NFL player plays for the NFL. Which is a company. Which means you are an employee.

I work for a company. Most on this board are employees. We adhere to the rules set by our bosses. It sucks, but welcome to life. You don't like it? Become an entrepreneur.

If the players don't like the bosses, then go start your own league. They aren't special. How come you think athletes deserve special rules compared to average civilians? If you don't like your job, then change it.

You are not making any sense. If the NFL is a company, why should Bosa then accept terms not giving him the same Rights that all other players in his "position" get in the entire company.

 

[Azlen]

Read again. He has offered to accept one or the other. Either offset language or the structure of the signing bonus. The Chargers won't give him Either of them

Got it. Still in generalities, the offset language should never really ever be a sticking point for a player who thinks they are worth anything. It only comes into play if they are a bust and are cut before their rookie contract is up.

 

[BACH]

Got it. Still in generalities, the offset language should never really ever be a sticking point for a player who thinks they are worth anything. It only comes into play if they are a bust and are cut before their rookie contract is up.

Agree on that. It shouldn't be an issue.

 

[Bodha]

You are not making any sense. If the NFL is a company, why should Bosa then accept terms not giving him the same Rights that all other players in his "position" get in the entire company.

What are you talking about? That's how it is in all companies. That's why you negotiate a salary when you get hired.

Most employees in the same position make different $$$

 

[Bodha]

I will let this slight for the sake of discussion.

Why do I think they deserve special rules? Most contracts for 'average citizens' can't be terminated by one party unilaterally by management/company whatever without cause. In fact, the NFL and their contract structure isn't even typical of major sports in this country either. NBA, NHL, MLB all have guaranteed player contracts. So it is the NFL that has these 'special rules' that you are against, and yet aren't in the NFL's case for some reason.

Do you even live in Arizona? Its called right to work. You can be fired without reason so long as its not a prejudiced reason.

And stop comparing the NFL to other leagues. Stop comparing his #3 spot to other #3 spots. Stop comparing San Diego to every other team. WHY DOES IT MATTER? life.isnt.fair.

expecting to get the same as someone else is expecting fairness.

guess what

 

[BACH]

What are you talking about? That's how it is in all companies. That's why you negotiate a salary when you get hired.

Most employees in the same position make different $$$

Yeah. But this is not about amount. And it's Bosa's right to say no to a contract putting him worse than all other employees.

It's the Chargers wanting him to take a worse Deal than all other employees - not Bosa wanting better benefits than all others

 

[Bodha]

Yeah. And it's Bosa's right to say no to a contract putting him worse than all other employees.

I agree. Say no to their offer and walk away.

CFL is an option. Quicken Loans is also always hiring.

 

[oaken1]

Yeah. But this is not about amount. And it's Bosa's right to say no to a contract putting him worse than all other employees.

It's the Chargers wanting him to take a worse Deal than all other employees - not Bosa wanting better benefits than all others

it is...and he has options. He can make the choice to not sign, sit out this season, and re-enter the draft next year. But in so doing it is very likely he will get less guaranteed money than even the 50% SD is offering now.

 

[BACH]

I agree. Say no to their offer and walk away.

CFL is an option. Quicken Loans is also always hiring.

Other options are to re-enter the draft next year
or more realisticly sign the Deal so late that he in effect is redshirting his rookie year. He saves his body for future beatings, the Chargers have to pay anyway and they miss his production on the field for a year. Life isn't fair.

 

[Bodha]

realisticly sign the Deal so late that he in effect is redshirting his rookie year. He saves his body for future beatings, the Chargers have to pay anyway and they miss

How will the Chargers be compensated then for their #2 overall pick?

The reason the slotted system exists now (thank goodness) is because rookies used to pull crap like this all the time. Wanting $100M contracts. And they got them.

It had to change, and it has changed for the better.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Do you even live in Arizona? Its called right to work. You can be fired without reason so long as its not a prejudiced reason.

And stop comparing the NFL to other leagues. Stop comparing his #3 spot to other #3 spots. Stop comparing San Diego to every other team. WHY DOES IT MATTER? life.isnt.fair.

expecting to get the same as someone else is expecting fairness.

guess what

Yes I live in Arizona, but this is one of the 32 NFL teams. NFL contracts are not only bound by Arizona contract statues.

You are the one that compared the NFL to 'average citizens.' I made the better parallel to other sports teams, and you tell me to stop. Be careful, you are walking a thin line with your posts. You will be the one stopping one way or another.

 

[BACH]

How will the Chargers be compensated then for their #2 overall pick?

The reason the slotted system exists now (thank goodness) is because rookies used to pull crap like this all the time. Wanting $100M contracts. And they got them.

It had to change, and it has changed for the better.

You are again not making any sense...

The slotted system works both ways. Meaning that Bosa will get the same amount of money whenever he signs the contract. Might be structure differently, but in amount it's the same.
And you are AGAIN missing that it's not Bosa pulling any crap. He's willing to that a lesser deal than the slotted system has set precedence for. The Chargers are pulling this crap because the want him to take a contract structured on these points as the #25 Pick. Same rules Apply to both parties in the slotted system

 

[Bodha]

You are again not making any sense...

The slotted system works both ways. Meaning that Bosa will get the same amount of money whenever he signs the contract. Might be structure differently, but in amount it's the same.
And you are AGAIN missing that it's not Bosa pulling any crap. He's willing to that a lesser deal than the slotted system has set prejudice for. The Chargers are pulling this crap because the want him to take a contract structured on these points as the #25 Pick. Same rules Apply to both parties in the slotted system

But the leverage of power is not equal.

Bosa and San Diego are not a 50-50 partnership.

San Diego is the boss. They have the power to not be fair. Should they offer him the same as all other #3s? Yes they should. But must they? No.

And they've decided not to. So that's the answer. What are we waiting around for? Them to change their minds? They have the right to say No and that's my point.

 

[BACH]

But the leverage of power is not equal.

Bosa and San Diego are not a 50-50 partnership.

San Diego is the boss. They have the power to not be fair. Should they offer him the same as all other #3s? Yes they should. But must they? No.

And they've decided not to. So that's the answer. What are we waiting around for? Them to change their minds? They have the right to say No and that's my point.

Using your logic Bosa has the right to demand a 100M contract as Well. If the Chargers didn't want to follow the CBA neither do Bosa.

The New CBA introduced the slotted system and gave Rights to both the teams and players. Remember that. There is a set of rules in the CBA for all contracts.

The side NOT following the contract precedence of the CBA is the Chargers - not Joey Bosa. Nothing more to discuss! All your points are irrelevant, because all players and teams are part of the CBA.

 

[Bodha]

The New CBA introduced the slotted system and gave Rights to both the teams and players. Remember that. There is a set of rules in the CBA for all contracts.

The side NOT following the contract precedence of the CBA is the Chargers - not Joey Bosa. Nothing more to discuss! All your points are irrelevant, because all players and teams are part of the CBA.

Bosa has the right to ASK for certain things. Chargers have the right to DENY those requests.

And that is the "Rights to both the teams and players" we're talking about.


Also correct. Chargers are not following the precedent. But precedence is simply a tradition. Not a obligation. They can say no to the precedence. That is their RIGHT to do so.

 

[PDXChris]

Reading through the Cooper thread, it looks like the Cardinals gave in a lot and Cooper gave in a little.

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/forum/threads/coopers-contract.196704/page-10

Interesting to read everyone's reactions.