Ouch - Bickley Eviscerates Keim

[HGC]

It's a bad pick, but you can't say that it would have been smart to move up, either.

Keep in mind it was rumored that just a year prior we were about to "call our shot" on Paxton Lynch.

I'm not exactly a Keim fan, but he gets a pass on this one, things were out of his hands.

Nothing was out of his hands. It was Keim’s decision to stand pat.

 

[Chopper0080]

I think Murray is already better than Trubisky.

Yes

 

[Krangodnzr]

To me, it's apparent the Cardinals had two guys they were excited about at #13, and couldn't fathom a point where the Chiefs moved up that far to snag Mahomes at #10, which had to create some panic, knowing we thought the Browns would take someone. Then the Texans had two picks to beat us out with a wildly aggressive offer.

Knowing what we know, I wish we had done it, but the situation was wildly out of Keim's control to make a smart football decision.

I was Team Mahomes that draft.

I watched him shred ASUs defense that year, and it was obvious he was super talented.

I wouldnt doubt if Mahomes was high on their board, but they thought they could sot tight and get him. That's not the right attitude when you need a QB. Look at what Reid did, that's what you do.

Having Murray settles this team alot.

 

[Solar7]

And while you are saying that, you are also saying that half the board thought something else. It is you looking in hindsight.

No, I wanted Watson or Mahomes, and you are welcome to go back and find my posts from back them. I even selected Watson in the last mock draft I participated in not long before the actual draft.

Half the board, including me, wanted one of those guys. I'm not debating that people wanted them at all. I'm saying that we all would have rioted if we gave up a first round pick and potentially more to move up three spots.

If you want to go back in your history and find where you said you were all for giving up that much to move up three spots before Watson or Mahomes started taking snaps, I'll eat crow.

 

[Solar7]

I was Team Mahomes that draft.

I watched him shred ASUs defense that year, and it was obvious he was super talented.

I wouldnt doubt if Mahomes was high on their board, but they thought they could sot tight and get him. That's not the right attitude when you need a QB. Look at what Reid did, that's what you do.

Having Murray settles this team alot.

If you have both Watson and Mahomes similarly graded, and you have 3 picks to go before they get to you with no one really in range to jump you with a crazy move, you can't just waste picks if you want to be a good team. Especially not high picks.

 

[Krangodnzr]

If you have both Watson and Mahomes similarly graded, and you have 3 picks to go before they get to you with no one really in range to jump you with a crazy move, you can't just waste picks if you want to be a good team. Especially not high picks.

Yes you can. You saw what happens when you don't.

You are literally presenting the counter argument.

If you want/need a QB, trade up. Every single damn time. There is extreme scarcity.

 

[Solar7]

Yes you can. You saw what happens when you don't.

You are literally presenting the counter argument.

If you want/need a QB, trade up. Every single damn time. There is extreme scarcity.

That's if the QB pans out. If they don't, you end up like we did last year, down three young players and looking for a replacement. We pretty much literally did what everyone is clamoring for and got burned.

 

[gimpy]

From what I've seen, we haven't gotten burned this time.

 

[HGC]

Half the board, including me, wanted one of those guys. I'm not debating that people wanted them at all. I'm saying that we all would have rioted if we gave up a first round pick and potentially more to move up three spots.

If you want to go back in your history and find where you said you were all for giving up that much to move up three spots before Watson or Mahomes started taking snaps, I'll eat crow.

Why are you insisting it would have cost a future first in every response? You’re giving the Cardinals zero value for pick #13.

 

[The6]

And the carousel begins again new GM new head coach and new Qb anyone see a pattern here

Yep

 

[Harry]

Eviscerates Keim long overdue!

 

[jefftheshark]

I got tired of the bickering on this topic so jumping into the Delorean I went back in time and somehow maneuvered Keim into drafting Mahomes. And guess what? By 2019 we still were pathetic because OUR OFFENSIVE LINE SUCKS!

So I went back and reset the original timeline because it’s not fair to cheat Mahomes out of his time in the sun. While I was there though, I spent a lot of time in several Scottsdale water holes where one fateful evening I tried to talk Keim out of having that last “one for the road”

But we all know how that story ended as well.

JTS

 

[Solar7]

Why are you insisting it would have cost a future first in every response? You’re giving the Cardinals zero value for pick #13.

Because again, a first is what was traded for. If both of those teams traded out of that area so far down, it stands to reason they didn't particularly covet anyone in that particular area. A 2nd round pick does not outvalue a future 1st and a 3rd in any world.

We're not talking a 3rd to move up a few spots here, we got outbid.

I don't like Keim right now, but blaming him or Arians for this one is frustrating, because I'm sure they tried and just couldn't get it done without selling the farm.

 

[HGC]

Because again, a first is what was traded for. If both of those teams traded out of that area so far down, it stands to reason they didn't particularly covet anyone in that particular area. A 2nd round pick does not outvalue a future 1st and a 3rd in any world.

We're not talking a 3rd to move up a few spots here, we got outbid.

I don't like Keim right now, but blaming him or Arians for this one is frustrating, because I'm sure they tried and just couldn't get it done without selling the farm.

A first was traded by a team picking at #27. With all due respect it’s ridiculous to think the price would have been the same from Arizona.
You’re giving Keim credit that he doesn’t deserve. He got jumped by 2 teams and he was in a better position than both to make a deal.

 

[Solar7]

A first was traded by a team picking at #27. With all due respect it’s ridiculous to think the price would have been the same from Arizona.
You’re giving Keim credit that he doesn’t deserve. He got jumped by 2 teams and he was in a better position than both to make a deal.

Who says he didn't offer? I'm just not sure how you can make the argument that anything we would have offered outside of a first & more wouldn't have looked like a comparatively weak offer. Maybe a second and a third? But did we want to waste the first half of our draft on a guy when we had another guy we thought we were going to get three picks later? What would we have given to beat the Texans offer to the Browns one pick before, even if we were in panic mode?

I mean, lay it out there and look at what you think we realistically would have had to spend to make it a competitive or better offer. Then also look at the guys in between them and that following pick... not a single Pro Bowl player, and really no one that spectacular... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_NFL_Draft

What do you honestly think would have gotten it done over those offers?

I'm not questioning your football knowledge or anything, but taking next year's first off the table from the Cards, what do you think those teams would have needed to get to turn their noses up at a 1st round pick from the other teams?

 

[Delmar M Lewis]

Hard to say that Mahomes would have worked here simply because way ro mamy pieces are inadequate ie. The Offensive line being one the speed receiver thats actually good etc.

 

[Chopper0080]

I wonder what it would take to get Stefon Diggs away from Minnesota with their salary cap crunch and run-the-ball mentality?

 

[HGC]

Who says he didn't offer? I'm just not sure how you can make the argument that anything we would have offered outside of a first & more wouldn't have looked like a comparatively weak offer. Maybe a second and a third? But did we want to waste the first half of our draft on a guy when we had another guy we thought we were going to get three picks later? What would we have given to beat the Texans offer to the Browns one pick before, even if we were in panic mode?

I mean, lay it out there and look at what you think we realistically would have had to spend to make it a competitive or better offer. Then also look at the guys in between them and that following pick... not a single Pro Bowl player, and really no one that spectacular... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_NFL_Draft

What do you honestly think would have gotten it done over those offers?

I'm not questioning your football knowledge or anything, but taking next year's first off the table from the Cards, what do you think those teams would have needed to get to turn their noses up at a 1st round pick from the other teams?

Dude you’re acting as if Buffalo or Cleveland were the only options in finding a trade partner. You have no idea what actually happened and neither do I but you’re the only person suggesting that Keim tried and couldn’t pay the price.

 

[Solar7]

Dude you’re acting as if Buffalo or Cleveland were the only options in finding a trade partner. You have no idea what actually happened and neither do I but you’re the only person suggesting that Keim tried and couldn’t pay the price.

I think it's way more likely to think that we communicated with the teams in front of us than we did not at all and just stood pat and waited. Teams continuously communicate about this kind of thing. You want to give 100% of the blame to Keim/Arians like they just showed up on Thursday without a plan and an ESPN Insider subscription.

With that said, who can blame them for thinking they have a good shot at one of the two guys they like when pick #10 comes around and they're only 3 away with no QB needy teams in front of them? You're asking them to predict the future and everyone else around them in two scenarios no one saw coming. At best, you panic when Mahomes drops off the board, because no one saw the Chiefs moving up 17 spots with Alex Smith on the roster.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Who cares about Mahomes?

Keim is an alcoholic, philandering putz who probably in large part due to his shady personal life can't find good players to field a competitve team. He should have been fired or demoted years ago. Only plausible explanation is he has some sort of dirt on Mike.

 

[Delmar M Lewis]

So true just hope last week is a blip and not a trend though

Unfortunately from looking at the score of this game ot looks like a trend

 

[Timm Rosenbach]

Jurecki is going to have to pretend to be positive tonight and tomorrow. Hilarious. Mike from Ahwatuki pretending to approve of this dumpster fire with Jody Jackson and a vapid former Arizona State cheerleader Lisa Matthews

 

[Lefty]

I doubt Keim makes it through this season.

 

[Zeno]

I doubt Keim makes it through this season.

When is the last time a NFL GM was fried during the season? I am sure it must have happened before but I’d say it’s pretty rare...he’ll be here through week 17 for sure.

 

[Cardinal]

When is the last time a NFL GM was fried during the season? I am sure it must have happened before but I’d say it’s pretty rare...he’ll be here through week 17 for sure.

Raiders fired Reggie McKenzie last year after Week 14. Not mid season but at least they didn’t wait until Week 17.

Browns fired Sashi Brown before their Week 14 game in 2017.

Same year, Giants fired Jerry Reese after their Week 13 loss to the Raiders