Our Ideal Summer

[George O'Brien]

What are the rules on signing someone after their Bird rights have been renounced?

A lot will depend on where the cap is set. I have been operating under the assumption that for the Suns to go after Kobe, they will have to off load either White or Eisely. If the cap is raised to $47 million, this would give the Suns at least $13 million first year on a $100 million contract to offer; yet still leave $6 million for the first round pick, Vujanic and Dice. Dice could be re-signed immediately using his Bird rights.

If the cap is only $45 million and the Suns keep their draft pick and sign Vujanic, they might have to wait to give Dice the veteran minimum. I'm not clear on what the Suns can offer Vujanic once they have used up their cap space.

 

[Chaplin]

Scotsman, check out the quality of players available, and compare those to Kobe. IMO, the quality is so low for other free agents this summer that the chance we'd take with Kobe would most definitely be worth it.

Simply, Kobe Bryant would be a piece of a glorious future. Anyone else would be a stopgap measure to develop our other young players.

Kobe Bryant would get my vote because he simply would enable us to compete for a championship far sooner than anyone else would. If he gets convicted, big deal--next summer McGrady will be a free agent--it wouldn't be the end of the world.

 

[George O'Brien]

Scotsman, check out the quality of players available, and compare those to Kobe. IMO, the quality is so low for other free agents this summer that the chance we'd take with Kobe would most definitely be worth it.

Simply, Kobe Bryant would be a piece of a glorious future. Anyone else would be a stopgap measure to develop our other young players.

Kobe Bryant would get my vote because he simply would enable us to compete for a championship far sooner than anyone else would. If he gets convicted, big deal--next summer McGrady will be a free agent--it wouldn't be the end of the world.

I really doubt that the Suns will be able to sign Kobe, but I agree he is the only player available I would give much more than mid cap for (Sheed Wallace is worth more but would be a terrible fit).

If Kobe does not sign, I can see the Suns signing some players to one year deals and trying again in 2005.

 

[Errntknght]

My ideal summer starts with a new majority owner, then a new GM, and then an NBA coach! 'Twould be nice if it happened very early, so they could add pieces that fit with the team and the coaches' vision.

The worst scenario - we sign Kobe and he saves D'Antoni's job, with the team going on to become the best collection of 'solo' players never to get out of the first round of the playoffs.

 

[JCSunsfan]

My ideal summer starts with a new majority owner, then a new GM, and then an NBA coach! 'Twould be nice if it happened very early, so they could add pieces that fit with the team and the coaches' vision.

The worst scenario - we sign Kobe and he saves D'Antoni's job, with the team going on to become the best collection of 'solo' players never to get out of the first round of the playoffs.

Does the sun ever shine in your world?

 

[George O'Brien]

My ideal summer starts with a new majority owner, then a new GM, and then an NBA coach! 'Twould be nice if it happened very early, so they could add pieces that fit with the team and the coaches' vision.

The worst scenario - we sign Kobe and he saves D'Antoni's job, with the team going on to become the best collection of 'solo' players never to get out of the first round of the playoffs.

Harsh. I think the Suns are much more team oriented than under FJ. Adding Kobe would mean a huge adjustment but I think they would.

None the less, the Suns future is going to be as much in the hands of Lampe than anyone else. He is the only Sun witht he size and athleticism to be an upper level center in the NBA -- but he has to prove he wants to do the dirty work. Without a center who can defend, rebound and score, the Suns will not be competitive in the playoffs.

 

[minercon]

Gee Errnt...I don't know...What if Barkley and Jordan buy the team? Jordan did nothing with the Wizards except make them Hazards. If someone does buy the team I am sure Big C will look out for little C and there will be clauses that the GM cannot change for maybe 5 years or something.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Gee Errnt...I don't know...What if Barkley and Jordan buy the team? Jordan did nothing with the Wizards except make them Hazards.

Bah, for the last time, if you ignore Jordan's years as player/gm, he did a pretty good job. He conducted the first 1 year major cap cutting in the current cba. He drafted a project who looks like he is the real thing now. The rest of his picks weren't spectacular, but they weren't bad either.


Anytime a person has a dual role, usually coach/gm, they mess up. It is just impossible to be a good GM when you are thining like a coach or player.



That being said, I challenged people who dislike BC to give me a list of 10 current gms they like better. No one has responded, is that because no one can come up with 10 better gms??

 

[Chaplin]

Keep dreaming everyone, because even if JC was absolutely convinced to sell the team, it won't happen overnight. My guess is even if a deal comes into place this summer, it won't actually happen until next year at the earliest.

 

[George O'Brien]

I'm not sure the Colangelos have made a really stupid move since they signed Luc. Big Jake didn't work out, but it was hardly stupid.

Our biggest problem with the Colangelos is that they are no insanely rich. The Knicks can afford $100 million payrolls for ever, but the Suns stopped signing mid cap free agents once they got above $60 million. Our biggest (and most justified) gripe is that they gave up draft picks just to save on luxury tax in the Googs deal. This was cheap, not stupid.

Give BC a blank check and I think he'd seem a lot smarter.

 

[elindholm]

That being said, I challenged people who dislike BC to give me a list of 10 current gms they like better. No one has responded, is that because no one can come up with 10 better gms??

No, it's because we don't know the names of ten other GMs.

I think the problem is that we want the Suns to be an elite team. "Elite" means "better than top ten." Sure, they might have roughly the 10th-best GM, or the 10th-best arena, or the 10th-best coaching staff, or whatever. But that won't make them elite.

For a team to be elite, it needs to measure itself against the absolute best, not against all of the dreg teams that suck anyway. As long as Mark Cuban is in charge (for example), the Suns will never be able to compete with Dallas in terms of money. So that's one strike against them. For as long as Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnett are in the league (for example), the Suns won't be able to compete on the "best player" front (barring the Bryant fantasies). So that's another strike against them. As long as they keep hiring rookie coaches, they'll be giving something up to the teams willing to hire a Jeff Van Gundy or a Rick Carlisle or whoever. So that's another strike against them.

In other words, the Suns are already fighting an uphill battle. Draft picks and trades that are merely "above average," or even "top ten," won't get it done. The pressure is on the GM and his handlers to be, pretty much, the absolute best in the entire league. Otherwise the Suns really don't have a chance to get to the level we'd all like to see.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I understand your point Eric, but I don't think it is very realistic.

Fine, if people can't name 10 other GMs, then name 10 other teams you think are run better. The point is, people call for Bryan's head, without offering an example to replace him. A lot of an elite team's sucess is based on luck. Mot franchise players come to a team that way, and it is up to the GM to build a core around them. It isn't BCs fault the suns haven't gotton a franchise player lately. However, you have to give him credit for alway having a solid core available in case one falls in his lap.

I would guess that about half of the top teams can credit their success to the GM.

Lakers - Nope (Jerry West yes, Kupchak no)

Spurs - Nope (RC Buford hasn't done anything spectacular. Popovich pulled a nice move keeping all that cap space and winning the title, but it didn't materialize into much)

Pistons - For sure (Joe Dumars put together a group without a superstar that is this good)

Pacers - Debatable (Bird hasn't done anything yet, and Walsh's only outstanding move was the Jalen Rose trade a few years back)

Kings/Mavs - Debatable again, it is hard to judge a GM when they don't have to worry about the financial side

TWolves - Nope. Kevin Mchale's one nice move was getting Cassell for Smith. Other than that, you can say him and Glen Taylor kept the Wolves in the first round because of the contract scandal.


When you judge anything, you have to compare it to all others in the field. Not just the best. I think it is safe to say that BC is in the top third of GMs in the league. He is not easily replaced, since good GMs rarely switch teams.

People just assume he is horrible because he got the job from his father. If he wasn't Jerry's son, his cerdibility as an exec would almost never be brought up.

 

[George O'Brien]

Not Danny Ainge?

 

[Errntknght]

How bad does a GM have to be at hiring head coaches in order to be considered a poor GM? To me thats one of his most important jobs, and BC (along with pop's help) ranks at the very bottom of the league. My other major complaint with BC is that while he drafts/trades for individual players reasonably well, he has no concept of the team he's trying to put together. The fact the coaches are weak ties into this as a strong coach would have a vision of where he's trying to go with the team and would supply BC with some guidance.

I've given chapter and verse on that story many times but I'll spare you today... just ask yourself if you can identify, 3 years after the fact, exactly what is the "new direction" the C's trumpeted about at the Kidd-Marbury trade? Right, me neither.

Lastly, I don't care too much for the job the C's have done with contract extensions... in Marbs case they've essentially admitted it was a dumb move themselves.

I do honestly believe that acquiring Kobe this summer would have the result I mentioned. The squad will be rich with guys who can score solo and be stronger defensively so I'd expect them to be good enough to make the playoffs. But I've never seen a team do much in playoffs with just individual scorers to carry the offensive load.

 

[Joe Mama]

There was no problem with the Marbury extension. The only problem with it is the way they claimed he was going to be one of the cornerstones of franchise and traded him a few months later. The extension actually helped to make the trade with New York. There's no way New York would have made that trade without an extension in place because he was sent to be a free agent this summer. Basically they signed him to that extension knowing that they could unload him on New York if they wanted to bail on him.

The other thing I didn't like about the extension is the way they keep claiming they saved hundreds of millions of dollars in the trade it including his extension in the figure. IMO they shouldn't count an extension they signed just a few months earlier in order to make the trade happen as part of the savings. The savings was the difference between the rest of Hardaway and Trybnski's contracts and the contracts of the players they received in return.

As far as I know the only other extension you could really criticize with the Shawn Marion's. I would definitely agree with you there.

Joe Mama