Overall, we've had a good offseason. Right Kerr/Sarver bashers?

[HooverDam]

I see. Kerr should have signed Chris Paul as a backup PG, Dwight Howard as a back up big man, and Ray Allen as an additional shooter- All for vet minimum.
Yeah, you are right, Kerr is an idiot. Why didn't he think of signing those guys for vet minimum?

Yah, thats exactly what I said.

 

[mojorizen7]

Like i stated in June, i would rather have seen Kerr/Sarver blow it up and rebuild BUT they reloaded instead which i thought was a very difficult task given the circumstances.
I think alot remains to be seen in terms of team success obviously but IMO Kerr/Sarver did a nice job retooling without very many "tools" to work with if you get my meaning.
B-

 

[arwillan]

the offseason is a success if dragic and lopez can crack the rotation and contribute, in my eyes. getting admundson and strawberry a few minutes here and there would be a nice touch.

 

[Muggum]

Dragic/Lopez are career backups. Not that there's anything wrong with that given where we were picking. But I'd trade Diaw and Lopez for Joe Johnson, wouldn't you?

 

[Chaplin]

Dragic/Lopez are career backups. Not that there's anything wrong with that given where we were picking. But I'd trade Diaw and Lopez for Joe Johnson, wouldn't you?

Talent-wise, sure. But Joe Johnson is a lot more expensive than Lopez and Diaw. And instead of complaining that we don't have Joe Johnson, everyone would complain that we're spending too much money. It's a no-win situation for the Suns on this board.

 

[HooverDam]

And instead of complaining that we don't have Joe Johnson, everyone would complain that we're spending too much money..

Its not often you hear fans complain about a team spending too much money.

 

[shazaam6]

.
.
.
.
.

.
.
.
.
.

.

Let's talk about something we all know about.

How about:

"Worst fault or faults of D'Antoni"

Just kidding

You must be registered for see images

We don't know much about our team until we see what the 4 new players can do or how the new coaches will try to integrate everyone to their ideas of how we should play. There are just too many unknowns at this point to accurately assess what we have.

That is my opinion for right now and I can't wait for training camp to start so we can know a little more.

Now, about D'Antoni

 

[mojorizen7]

Nah! all the guys that wanted DA gone will be happy regardless of the suns progress or lack thereof.

Missed this. What a completely ridiculous statement. LOL
Talk about stirring the chili.
Come on.....

 

[Cheesebeef]

Talent-wise, sure. But Joe Johnson is a lot more expensive than Lopez and Diaw. And instead of complaining that we don't have Joe Johnson, everyone would complain that we're spending too much money. It's a no-win situation for the Suns on this board.

a lot more expensive than Lopez and Diaw? combined, those two guys make 10.7 million bones versus JJ's 14.2. I'm not sure I'd say 3.5 million dollars is a lot more, especially considering JJ production probably will dwarf both of those guys combined impact. I also don't think I've ever seen anyone complain that their team is spending too much money, especially when it's probably money that would have won us a title or two by now.

 

[Covert Rain]

We ended up adding a rookie center and a euro guard. We actually have a solid signing in MB. Let's be realistic here. Two of our new editions don't have a lick of NBA experience. I am not saying that Lopez or Dragic can't contribute anything but those were picks for the future IMO. We don't know what these guys can do yet and they might prove to be solid contributors. I am hoping they will be. I just feel these are "future" guys. We know what we have in Barnes and again I loved that signing.

What would have made this a great off season is if we could have made a trade for a proven veteran PG and/or another big man. At the very least traded a player to provide cap space to sign a proven free agent player. It would have been nice as well to move up in the draft (which yes I know is difficult) for someone more likely to contribute. All of these scenarios would have been better then drafting Lopez & Dragic.

Judging the offseason for the future = B

Judging the offseason for next year = C

 

[dreamcastrocks]

We ended up adding a rookie center and a euro guard. We actually have a solid signing in MB. Let's be realistic here. Two of our new editions don't have a lick of NBA experience. I am not saying that Lopez or Dragic can't contribute anything but those were picks for the future IMO.

We don't know what these guys can do yet and they might prove to be solid contributors. I am hoping they will be. I just feel these are "future" guys. We know what we have in Barnes and I loved that signing.

What would have made this a great off season is if we could have made a trade for a proven veteran PG and/or another big man. At the very least traded a player to provide cap space to sign a proven free agent player. It would have been nice as well to move up in the draft (which yes I know is difficult) for someone more likely to contribute. All of these scenarios would have been better then drafting Lopez & Dragic.

Judging the offseason for the future = B

Judging the offseason for next year = C

If we are being realistic, then we should just throw out half of the offseason. Everyone that is drafted isn't going to have any NBA experience, right?

 

[Covert Rain]

If we are being realistic, then we should just throw out half of the offseason. Everyone that is drafted isn't going to have any NBA experience, right?

I don't recall too many teams saying they are depending on rookies they drafted to make or brake their season's title hopes. Yet everyone on this board feels that we can't get a title without adding pieces. If 2 of those pieces we are adding are essential to our success this season and those pieces don't have NBA experience.....doesn't that sort of goes against that conventional train of thought?

Even though there are no guarantees in the draft, I don't think people are being honest if they say that drafting Dragic or Lopez was better then moving up in the draft to get a guy who is projected to contribute this year. Yes that person would not have any NBA experience either but I think your chances of contribution would be higher.

Bottom line is that for this team to have an "A" or a "B" offseason, we needed to add proven NBA guys. Adding 1 out of 3 guys that fit that bill says "C" to me. It says "future" to me. I hope I am wrong and these guys can significantly contribute because this is the make or break season. If we don't get the title this year the window is slammed shut for some time. I would have been much happier with this offseason had I known the Suns were out of title contention and drafting for the future. That's isn't the case.

 

[Mainstreet]

Even though there are no guarantees in the draft, I don't think people are being honest if they say that drafting Dragic or Lopez was better then moving up in the draft to get a guy who is projected to contribute this year. Yes that person would not have any NBA experience either but I think your chances of contribution would be higher.

"My momma always said, "Life was like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get." from the Movie Forest Gump



Let's hope the best chocolates were scattered throughout the box (draft) and Phoenix got two of the best pieces. IMO, the Suns lacking an adequate backup PG over the last four years cost them at least one Championship. Let's hope the Suns getting some fresh legs will get them further and Dragic and Lopez prove to be capable backups.

 

[Covert Rain]

"My momma always said, "Life was like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get." from the Movie Forest Gump



Let's hope the best chocolates were scattered throughout the box (draft) and Phoenix got two of the best pieces. IMO, the Suns lacking an adequate backup PG over the last four years cost them at least one Championship. Let's hope the Suns getting some fresh legs will get them further and Dragic and Lopez prove to be capable backups.

Agreed. That is my hope as well. I am really anxious to get this season started to see if we got the good chocolate or that piece of chocolate in the box with that indescribable nasty filling.

You must be registered for see images

 

[Rab]

I think a B or B- is a fair grade. It's hard to give them higher because we really aren't sure how Dragic or Lopez will contribute on an NBA level. Their additions on paper look good because they address voids the Suns were looking to fill. Hopefully, they are able to contribute well to the team, but I can't give the Suns a higher grade until I see them compete a little more. I guess I'm a "see it to believe it" kind of guy when it comes to the NBA.

The Barnes signing I do believe will end up being a steal when you factor in the salary/production ratio. I do think he'll have a positive impact for this team off the bench, and perhaps starting when Grant Hill is hurt, or needs a rest.

 

[nowagimp]

Some people just can not be happy. No matter what Dantoni does, the select few will always find a way to complain about it.

It works and has worked both(Kerr/DA) ways. I still have yet to forgive Kerr for the draft pick giveaways, I have a longer memory, perhaps. Perhaps if Lopez and Dragic come out and have a nice impact, I will forget the draft picks + expiring contract for nothing. Until then, Kerr/sarver are on probation as a decision making team. It will only get worse if speichts, green or another post 15 pick first rounder outshines lopez by alot or dragic just cant cut it. This is big business, and sarver/kerr/dantoni/porter are getting payed tons of bucks to get it right. they should be evaluated just like CEO's or exec officers in real businesses, that is based on results, not effort.

 

[Cheesebeef]

If we are being realistic, then we should just throw out half of the offseason. Everyone that is drafted isn't going to have any NBA experience, right?

how many of those guys drafted are expected to MAJOR roles on a Title Contending team(or what the Suns and some fans believe to be a Title contending team)? It's about expectations. I think what Steel is saying that for a team that has one year at most left in it's window of opportunity for a title, that getting guys with no experience to man unbelievably instrumental positions isn't something that he can get excited about or deem good, especially when you consider age and Shaq's seemingly 20-25 games a year that he misses due to injury and the fact that we want to rest Nash 12 games a season.

I mean, you do remember last off-season, when people were saying that now that we got Tucker and DJ, we had guys who were gonna be able to give Ginobli and Parker fits defensively, right? That certainly didn't turn out to be the case.

But, even if you're expectations aren't for a title, having no idea how the drafted guys pan out, I'm still not sure how one can come to the conclusion that it's been a good off-season considering the entire thing pretty much rests on those guys' abilities in the future.

 

[Chaplin]

The Suns came into the offseason with specific goals. They met those goals, however much fans whine about what those goals are. Because of that, the offseason gets an A. They did exactly what they wanted to do. Whether it will work is another issue.

You can't fault them for achieving their goals. You can fault them, however, for not having very lofty goals, if that's your opinion.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

how many of those guys drafted are expected to MAJOR roles on a Title Contending team(or what the Suns and some fans believe to be a Title contending team)? It's about expectations. I think what Steel is saying that for a team that has one year at most left in it's window of opportunity for a title, that getting guys with no experience to man unbelievably instrumental positions isn't something that he can get excited about or deem good, especially when you consider age and Shaq's seemingly 20-25 games a year that he misses due to injury and the fact that we want to rest Nash 12 games a season.

I mean, you do remember last off-season, when people were saying that now that we got Tucker and DJ, we had guys who were gonna be able to give Ginobli and Parker fits defensively, right? That certainly didn't turn out to be the case.

But, even if you're expectations aren't for a title, having no idea how the drafted guys pan out, I'm still not sure how one can come to the conclusion that it's been a good off-season considering the entire thing pretty much rests on those guys' abilities in the future.

Catch 22. If your drafting in the beginning or the middle of the round (where the big impact players usually are), you aren't a title contender..

 

[Cheesebeef]

Catch 22. If your drafting in the beginning or the middle of the round (where the big impact players usually are), you aren't a title contender..

Catch-22 on what? We weren't drafting in the middle of the round because of our record dream. That was the Hawks pick, so I'm not sure what you're point is. If you're saying we're not a title contender (which I agree with), then why go on with the charade of acting like, making picks because players can play right away, as opposed to drafting for potential?

 

[Cheesebeef]

The Suns came into the offseason with specific goals. They met those goals

man, I don't get this at all. chap, doesn't a team only meet goals they set if the moves actually work? I mean, the Suns needed to get a backup PG for Nash two years ago and signed a PG named Marcus Banks. Does that mean in your mind that they achieved their goal of getting a backup PG? Or last year, when again, they needed a backup PG, and they drafted a PG DJ Strawberry? I mean, if we lost out on Dragic (who hasn't proven he can play at this level yet) and ended up signing Wilks (who has proven he pretty much can't play at this level for any team worth a damn) as our backup PG, would you have still said they accomplished their goals... simply because Wilks was a PG? It's like saying we accomplished our goal last year in replacing our backup C because we signed Skinner to replace KT. Do you really think think that goal was met?

however much fans whine about what those goals are.

how do you not understand this. No one's "whining" (nice inflammatory term there) about the goals themselves. EVERYONE believes we needed a backup C, PG and swing-man. Some of us just don't believe just because we signed guys who play those positions that they're gonna automatically be the guys at those positions who are going to help us. I really don't understand what's so difficult to understand about that.

Because of that, the offseason gets an A. They did exactly what they wanted to do. Whether it will work is another issue.

shouldn't the off-season be measured by if it works or not, particularly when the off-season moves for the majority are completely unknown commodities? I mean, isn't hindsight really the ONLY way an off-season can ultimately be judged?

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Catch-22 on what? We weren't drafting in the middle of the round because of our record dream. That was the Hawks pick, so I'm not sure what you're point is. If you're saying we're not a title contender (which I agree with), then why go on with the charade of acting like, making picks because players can play right away, as opposed to drafting for potential?

I do think that we are a title contender. I made the point about the comment of yours that I bolded. Not sure how many of them if any are going to play a role on a major contender. Most major contenders don't need draft picks. That doesn't mean that the draft picks aren't wasted or shouldn't be factored in determining how they did during the offseason.

 

[Cheesebeef]

That doesn't mean that the draft picks aren't wasted or shouldn't be factored in determining how they did during the offseason.

but if you think from watching in college that one of the draft picks was a bad choice and you have no idea what to expect from the other draft pick because you've never seen a minute of live game footage of him (and already have concerns about Kerr/Griffin's talent evaluations), why would you think it was a good off-season.

Let me ask you a question. (Non-Cardinals fans need not reply because you just won't get the analogy). In the off-season of 2003, we lost our QB, had a mediocre at best running back and lost our best WRs. During the off-season we went out and signed a QB(Jeff Blake), drafted two WR(Q, BJ while trading for Larry Foster!) and signed a RB (Emmitt Smith). Do you consider that was a GOOD offseason merely because we filled holes with players that played those positions of need? I KNOW YOU DON'T. Just signing or drafting guys because they were in our area of need doesn't automatically mean they were the right guys.

The plan itself was sound (but anyone could have seen the holes we had), but to say it's good (which in my mind says it's already proven to work) is seeing into the future with so many unknown commodities in the mix.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

but if you think from watching in college that one of the draft picks was a bad choice and you have no idea what to expect from the other draft pick because you've never seen a minute of live game footage of him (and already have concerns about Kerr/Griffin's talent evaluations), why would you think it was a good off-season.

Let me ask you a question. (Non-Cardinals fans need not reply because you just won't get the analogy). In the off-season of 2003, we lost our QB, had a mediocre at best running back and lost our best WRs. During the off-season we went out and signed a QB(Jeff Blake), drafted two WR(Q, BJ while trading for Larry Foster!) and signed a RB (Emmitt Smith). Do you consider that was a GOOD offseason merely because we filled holes with players that played those positions of need? I KNOW YOU DON'T. Just signing or drafting guys because they were in our area of need doesn't automatically mean they were the right guys.

The plan itself was sound (but anyone could have seen the holes we had), but to say it's good (which in my mind says it's already proven to work) is seeing into the future with so many unknown commodities in the mix.

The only way to judge the offseason, during the offseason is to look at the moves that they made, and relate them to our needs vs. the value that we received for aquiring the player.... right?

I hope it works out for us.

 

[Cheesewater]

shouldn't the off-season be measured by if it works or not, particularly when the off-season moves for the majority are completely unknown commodities? I mean, isn't hindsight really the ONLY way an off-season can ultimately be judged?

By "if it works" do you mean "win a championship"? Because then only one team's offseason moves "work" each year.

If you do all you can to address weaknesses with what information you have and what you can accomplish in regards to other teams, players, management...then for the time being you have succeeded.