Per MJ

[Chopper0080]

Veteran nose tackles, their snap percentage, and average cap number. Rookies excluded because their salaries are artificially low.

Steve McLendon (PIT): 30.7%, $2.4M
Ahtyba Rubin (CLE): 38.7%, $8.83M
Ryan Pickett (HOU): 25.4%, $955K
Sammie Lee Hill (TEN): 51.5%, $3.8M
Chris Baker (WAS): 48.8%, $3.0M
Letroy Guion (GB): 50.1%, $1M
Broderick Bunkley (NO): 25.6%, $3.55M
Paul Soliai (ATL): 46.4%, $6.4M

That averages out to 39.65% and $3.7M average. Seems like Williams is right in the middle of that group.

You can see the guarantees of all the 3-4DTs here: http://overthecap.com/position/3-4-defensive-tackle

Not sure why Ngata's name keeps coming up. He's a DE for the Ravens.

Fair point...my counter would be that the contracts for Soliai and Rubin are stupid. Also, how did Bunkley, Baker, and Hill's contract numbers help their teams stop the run. McLendon's contract is probably in-line with what Williams does for our defense. I'm would prefer signing Sione Fua for a mil vs paying Dan Williams 3.5 mil.

 

[BigRedRage]

Veteran nose tackles, their snap percentage, and average cap number. Rookies excluded because their salaries are artificially low.

Steve McLendon (PIT): 30.7%, $2.4M
Ahtyba Rubin (CLE): 38.7%, $8.83M
Ryan Pickett (HOU): 25.4%, $955K
Sammie Lee Hill (TEN): 51.5%, $3.8M
Chris Baker (WAS): 48.8%, $3.0M
Letroy Guion (GB): 50.1%, $1M
Broderick Bunkley (NO): 25.6%, $3.55M
Paul Soliai (ATL): 46.4%, $6.4M

That averages out to 39.65% and $3.7M average. Seems like Williams is right in the middle of that group.

You can see the guarantees of all the 3-4DTs here: http://overthecap.com/position/3-4-defensive-tackle


Not sure why Ngata's name keeps coming up. He's a DE for the Ravens.

So 3.5 is reasonable for that position and playing time.

I like Dan and am surprised to hear the team doesnt value him more than they do. Well see if thats fool hardy.

Man I hope we get AP. A pissed off rested AP for 2015? Yes please.

I highly doubt an expensive RB like him is on our target list. I think Dallas will show him the money. We have much bigger needs.

 

[kerouac9]

Fair point...my counter would be that the contracts for Soliai and Rubin are stupid. Also, how did Bunkley, Baker, and Hill's contract numbers help their teams stop the run. McLendon's contract is probably in-line with what Williams does for our defense. I'm would prefer signing Sione Fua for a mil vs paying Dan Williams 3.5 mil.

The contracts are what they are. The Rubin number is staggering.

McLendon was a UDFA who didn't really play prior to 2013, not an established 4-year starter.

You pay for proven performance on your second contract. If you're offering Williams $2M per year, you're telling him that you don't want him around. Does Williams deserve more than Daryl Washington is getting paid in just salary? Yes.

Williams on an extension would have a lower cap number than Jonathan Cooper. Who is the top-shelf OLB or ILB you're going to sign with the $1.5M you'd save?

 

[Jetstream Green]

$2M for a quality nose tackle is a slap in the face. Dan Williams doesn't turn 28 until this summer, and has been an effective player the last two seasons. When your draft picks pan out, you pay them or you end up in a cycle where you're trying guys out. We don't have a plan in place to sub Williams in immediately.

Is the feeling that Dan Williams is taking himself off the field? IMO, $3.5M for Williams is probably a bargain if it gets him signed today.

I do not like it all neither. The Cardinals have been stout against the run because Williams clogs that center and cannot be moved. He might only play so many downs a game, but basically Big Dan is getting penalized for coming out of the game for passing situations which he caused... because teams could not run

 

[ajcardfan]

Percentage of snaps on the Dline:

Campbell - 85%(2014), 89% (2013)
Tommy Kelly - 67% (2014)
Darnell Dockett - 80% (2013)
Frostee Rucker - 48% (2014), 33% (2013)
Dan Williams - 39% (2014), 30% (2013)
Ed Stinson - 30% (prior to injury)

A guy that plays only a third of the snaps, I am not so sure was the biggest catalyst for Foote's success this year, or the Washington/Dansby success the year prior. A part of it, sure, but 3.5 million parts of it?

I would rather give Tommy Kelly 3.5 million for one more season, even at the age of 34.

You disagree with free agent rankings I've seen. Interior DL, Williams is in the top five of every list I've seen. Kelly is in the teens,

 

[kerouac9]

People should remember that our Nose Tackles before Williams came here were Gabe Watson, Alan Branch and Bryan Robinson. If NTs are so easy to find, this team has not historically done a good job of identifying them.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Losing Dan Williams over $500K a year would beg pretty dumb. You're not going to replace his production with a free agent for less than that, and a rookie is no sure thing (plus the opportunity cost of replacing him through free agency or the draft).

If your no. 1 priority is stopping the run, your number one prioity should be re-signing Dan Williams.

 

[joeshmo]

You disagree with free agent rankings I've seen. Interior DL, Williams is in the top five of every list I've seen. Kelly is in the teens,

They are also taking age in account dont you think? Hence my one year deal for Kelly. But without a shadow of a doubt in my mind Tommy Kelly did more for this defense last year then Dan Williams did.

Based on the links I posted for snap counts and average salaries I may have to change my mind on if he is worth 3.5 mill. While it seems high for a guy who if Docket comes back, and Ed Stinson continues his progression, Williams will go back down to 30% snap count like he did in 2013, heck maybe even less. But 3.5 mill for the position and snap count based on the links isnt all that crazy for Dan to ask for it would seem.

 

[WildBB]

3.1-3.2M for Williams - turn the page. Git-R-done.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/player-defensive-snap-count-stats/2014/

and if you want to throw in average salary of DT's as well:

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/average/defensive-tackle/

Thanks.

 

[joeshmo]

People should remember that our Nose Tackles before Williams came here were Gabe Watson, Alan Branch and Bryan Robinson. If NTs are so easy to find, this team has not historically done a good job of identifying them.

Branch should have never been a NT, Bryan Robinson was a smaller 1 gap NT who Horton tried to force and play a 2 gap roll, and Gabe Watson just sucked.

But you are right finding a decent nose tackle who isn't just a big tub of goo is harder then most people want to admit.

 

[Reddog]

People should remember that our Nose Tackles before Williams came here were Gabe Watson, Alan Branch and Bryan Robinson. If NTs are so easy to find, this team has not historically done a good job of identifying them.

Come on this team should have our trust. Defensive Coordinator
James Bettcher has a long proven track record (three weeks) so why worry. Just kidding, actually I do trust that SK knows something we don't.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Remember the days when the Cardinals couldn't run the ball and couldn't stop the run. Now the Cardinals can at least stop the run. I'd like to keep it that way and keep Williams in the middle. $3M a year sounds like a fair deal for a guy who is in his prime.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I like Dan and am surprised to hear the team doesnt value him more than they do. Well see if thats fool hardy.

Man I hope we get AP. A pissed off rested AP for 2015? Yes please.

agree with all of this. Won't kill the FO for what they think of Williams' value, but I'm surprised at their stance. Dude's the middle of the D... and still in his prime and we don't really have a backup plan (as of now).

 

[Reddog]

I'm surprised at their stance. Dude's the middle of the D... and still in his prime and we don't really have a backup plan (as of now).

Agree...Has to be more to this.

 

[Chopper0080]

People should remember that our Nose Tackles before Williams came here were Gabe Watson, Alan Branch and Bryan Robinson. If NTs are so easy to find, this team has not historically done a good job of identifying them.

OK, so referencing our history you can make that arguement for most of the positions on the field other than WR.

I guess my point would be that I don't mind the team letting Dan Williams test the market because I'm not afraid of what they market may offer. People say Dan Williams clogs up the middle of the defense vs the run, but he doesn't get off blocks and make plays. To me, that makes him a limited value. That being said, 3 mil isn't a huge number even for a role player. My guess would be that there are other issues in play if they aren't willing to pay that number or he is not the type of NT they want in their defense.

 

[Chopper0080]

Agree...Has to be more to this.

LOL...i just posted the same thing.

 

[Chopper0080]

* Talks with Dockett are looking more and more optimistic.

* Dan Williams is looking for $3.5M a year---the Cardinals consider him a part-time player and thus are not interested in paying him at that salary. Should test the FA market.

* Cromartie and his wife had issues with living in AZ----they miss NY---and teammates were getting tired of hearing it. MJ thinks the Cardinals probably won't even make an offer, because they feel he is just using them for leverage.

* Cardinals will be pursuing C, G, ILB, OLB in FA.

* Rob Rang thinks the Cardinals are honed in on an OLB in Round 1---and loves RB David Johnson of Northern Iowa for the Cardinals in round 3 or 4.

* MJ is hearing that G Paul Fanaica has a "wink-wink" deal in place with another team in FA that will pay him roughly $3M a year.

Man---they really string the listeners out---all show heading into breaks they are saying there will be Cardinals' news and insights---and finally at the end this was the info. At least the info was worth it.

They also kept saying we would hear from MJ "what the Cardinals are asking Andre Ellington to do." Didn't hear anything on Ellington at all. Anyone have an answer for this one?

Line by line...

-Nice to hear about Dockett. I actually want him to retire in AZ more than Fitz for some reason.

-Cro...meh. I won't miss him. I was more concerned about it mid season than I am now. Win win signing. Cards got a good year of rpoduction, and he will get a nice contract out of it.

-I like the idea of upgrading C, but I am curious to see if they do, and what they go after.

-I like the idea of a RB in rounds 3 or 4. I think that meshes both talent, value, and role nicely.

-I'm not gonna miss Fanaika.

 

[Buckybird]

My guess would be that there are other issues in play if they aren't willing to pay that number or he is not the type of NT they want in their defense.

Ding ding ding.

Plus the way Keim has been filling holes successfully with short term, low $$$ players thru FA is probably a factor as well.

 

[Solar7]

I still am not going to believe this team pursues a center in FA until I actually see a guy make a visit. They praise Sendlein far too much for it.

Drafting a guy would not surprise me.

 

[kerouac9]

OK, so referencing our history you can make that arguement for most of the positions on the field other than WR.

I guess my point would be that I don't mind the team letting Dan Williams test the market because I'm not afraid of what they market may offer. People say Dan Williams clogs up the middle of the defense vs the run, but he doesn't get off blocks and make plays. To me, that makes him a limited value. That being said, 3 mil isn't a huge number even for a role player. My guess would be that there are other issues in play if they aren't willing to pay that number or he is not the type of NT they want in their defense.

Who are the traditional NTs who do get off blocks and make plays?

As for the historical example, I think that this team's failure to identify a free agent or draft solution at NT is a historical outlier. This team's actually done all right at ILBs/OLBs (Washington, Dansby, Lenon and Foote for value, Abraham and Berry for production and value--as well as Okeafor), DBs (Peterson and Rodgers-Cromartie were studs, as was Adrian Wilson and Rolle and Rhodes), even running backs have guys who weren't stars but were solid contributors in Hightower, Emmitt Smith, James, etc.

I'd say that this team has a history of ineptitude at finding solutions to NT comperable only to their ineptitude at recruiting or drafting offensive guards.

 

[TJ]

-I'm not gonna miss Fanaika.

I pity the team that wants to pay him $3mil/season.

Funny that we're discussing whether or not Dumpster is worth $3.5; yet, Fainaka, for substandard play, is going to get $3mil.

Amazing.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

This is the same team that paid Stewart Bradley 20+mill .......... and they balk at paying Dan 3mill.

Sorry, I just hadn't had a good Stewart Bradley rip in a couple years. I feel much better now .

 

[BigRedRage]

This is the same team that paid Stewart Bradley 20+mill .......... and they balk at paying Dan 3mill.

Sorry, I just hadn't had a good Stewart Bradley rip in a couple years. I feel much better now .

Keim didnt pay Bradley though

 

[BillsCarnage]

I'm going to stoke the flames a bit more.

Who would you rather have if you had to make a choice? Dockett or Williams?

I'll take Williams every day of the week. One player is in his prime and the other is coming off a blown knee and the tail end of his career.