Phoenix vs Toronto Raptors

[George O'Brien]

Toronto is 16-15 with a record of 9-5 at home.

After trading Davis, the Raptors do not have real NBA center (they just traded for Robert Archibald!), but they have several guys who can put the ball in the basket including Carter, Marshall, Rose, and rookie Bosh.

Marshall's productivity has really taken off since coming to Toronto but Rose's shooting percentage remains sub-par.

The Suns can with this one. The Raptors are 3-7 in their last 10 games. Their rebounding is -4 and they no longer have Davis who averaged 9.4 rpg. The Raptors have been out scored 88.6 to 85.6 this season.

On the other hand, the Suns showed very little energy on Friday and both Marshall and Bosh are very good shooting three's.

 

[Chaz]

I just found out this game is not tonight. It is on right now.

Good thing I stumbled across it on my way to the football game.
Let's hope I still feel that way in 3 hours.

 

[slinslin]

So will they break 60 tonight?

 

[Joe Mama]

OK. I know Scott Williams is not part of the future for the Phoenix Suns, but if D'Antoni still feels they have a shot to make the playoffs Williams should be playing. It would be one thing if Amare Stoudemire and Zarko Cabarkapa were healthy, but the Phoenix Suns are starved for size. They also need him to spread floor.

Joe Mama

 

[scudney]

not a great half, but we're only down by 4. Marbury is getting good looks, but just can't finish anything.. he's only 2-11.

I'm dissapointed.. i usually go see the suns when they're in town here, but had nobody to go with today

 

[Chaz]

Bad breaks for the Suns. Maybe they are still asleep?

Marbury has missed some shots he would usually make.

They are making some stupid turnovers, looks like one of those days. They can still pull it out if they get they take care of the ball.

 

[matt_whitlock]

Originally posted by Joe Mama
OK. I know Scott Williams is not part of the future for the Phoenix Suns, but if D'Antoni still feels they have a shot to make the playoffs Williams should be playing. It would be one thing if Amare Stoudemire and Zarko Cabarkapa were healthy, but the Phoenix Suns are starved for size. They also need him to spread floor.

Joe Mama

If you're not going to be on the team in 5 years, why play them?

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by matt_whitlock
If you're not going to be on the team in 5 years, why play them?

I don't see a here. I hope you are being sarcastic.

OK. Let me just say that I've given up on a lineup that includes both Joe Johnson and Shawn Marion. Neither one of them is consistent enough from the outside. Unfortunately I don't think Hardaway or Jacobsen are the answer either.

I'm also not fond of Marion's perimeter defense. He is far too aggressive, and it leads to decent or good offensive players going right by him. He bites on any little fake or motion to the basket.

The only reason this game is close is that Toronto is a low-scoring team. Like the Suns, they have missed A LOT of wide-open shots.

Joe Mama

 

[Joe Mama]

Harvey better be heating his guts out because there is no other excuse for him only playing 15 minutes in this game. In those limited minutes he was probably the Suns' best player on the floor.

Why the hell did JJ wait until the end of the fourth quarter to go to the basket? He could have been doing this all game. Marbury should have been going to the basket relentlessly as well. The team looked absolutely lifeless for most of this game.

I'm very disappointed with everyone involved in this loss. The coaching, the effort, and the execution were just awful today. They look like they have given up.

Joe Mama

 

[slinslin]

So how is this team any better than with Frank Johnson except that they had some better shooting games after the coaching change although they allowed the other teams even more?

 

[Dr. Dumas]

Originally posted by slinslin
So how is this team any better than with Frank Johnson except that they had some better shooting games after the coaching change although they allowed the other teams even more?

Right now they are no better. But it's hard to make any comparisons since Zarko & Amare are out.

 

[SirStefan32]

There is no reason to lose to Toronto Raptors, regardless of how many players you are missing.

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by slinslin
So how is this team any better than with Frank Johnson except that they had some better shooting games after the coaching change although they allowed the other teams even more?

As I stated repeatedly I'm not happy with this decision to Benj Scott Williams. I'm not sure why Harvey didn't play more today. That said, Frank Johnson had a healthy Amare Stoudemire until the last two games he coached. Frank Johnson had some games with a healthy Zarko Cabarkapa. D'Antoni has had no opportunity to have either one of them in the lineup since he took over as head coach.

Joe Mama

 

[sly fly]

Originally posted by Joe Mama
I'm very disappointed with everyone involved in this loss. The coaching, the effort, and the execution were just awful today. They look like they have given up.

Joe Mama

I've got news for you, Joe. They played the same way against Detroit, and I called them out.

This team has no heart. No will to win. No chemisty. No leader (he's on the bench. And, he leads by example). No future. No nothing.

They are what they are. An above-average team athletically. And, below-average team IQ-wise.

Time to get someone in here who can play smart and takeover the locker room. I don't know who this player is, but they better get him in here quick.

If I know how Jerry Colangelo operates... we won't have to endure this crap too much longer.

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by sly fly
I've got news for you, Joe. They played the same way against Detroit, and I called them out.

This team has no heart. No will to win. No chemisty. No leader (he's on the bench. And, he leads by example). No future. No nothing.

They are what they are. An above-average team athletically. And, below-average team IQ-wise.

Time to get someone in here who can play smart and takeover the locker room. I don't know who this player is, but they better get him in here quick.

If I know how Jerry Colangelo operates... we won't have to endure this crap too much longer.

See I think you go overboard here. I think every and over values the talents on their own team. Without Amare Stoudemire and Zarko Cabarkapa, and with what little size they have still suffering from the flu (I assume) or benched they just aren't as good as other teams. The only way they can win right now is if their main players are really knocking down their shots.

Today I do not think the Phoenix Suns played hard enough. I also do not think the coach did a good job. Hardaway and Marbury shot the ball poorly, and no one was aggressive enough offensively. But I don't think the team has no heart.

I also know how Jerry Colangelo operates. He isn't going to do anything until Amare Stoudemire and Zarko Cabarkapa return for a while. I think he understands that he has to give a healthy team a chance. He also needs to give D'Antoni a chance to show what he can do with a healthy team.

Joe Mama

 

[George O'Brien]

It was a sad game. As usual, the Suns are incredible when their outside shots go in and just awful when they don't - which is far too often.

I realize that it is very difficult to implement a new offense in mid season, but the core problem with the Suns offense is that it is designed to get guys "open looks" rather than to hit cutters other than the pick and roll.

I can't remember the last time JJ got the ball on the run other than on the break. He is great moving in traffic, but it is hard to break defenders down from a standing start so he ends up taking jumpers too often. If JJ is needs to be in the game, they need to run plays that make best use of his skills.

Another complaint I have had for the past two years is how Marbury ignores the man who makes the pick left of the key. I cannot count how many times I've seen this player make a pickand go unmolested to the basket without ever getting the ball. Every pick and roll is run from the right of the key.

Eddie Johnson made the point that the Suns keep passing the ball to White too far from the basket. It is as if they have made no adjustment for the fact that Amare is not playing.

 

[matt_whitlock]

I have figured out the problem of this Phoenix Suns team. I finally realized that the problem we have all been searching for, everything we have been hoping and pleading that the Suns correct has been right under our noses the whole time. No, it is not Joe Johnson, it is not Shawn Marion's lack of aggressiveness taking the ball to the basket, it is...

Penny Hardaway's one lazy turnover each night.

 

[Billythekid]

I agree with alot of what Sly Fly says. This teams doesn't show heart, but i also think that we are simply overrated. We aren't that good to be able to beat teams. We have the WORST center compo in the league hands down. We have no pure shooters. Unless you conside casey a pure shooter. I really don't. We need more pieces and we need Amare! He is an animal that fires this team up. Everyone else seems so casual.


We also have alot of excuses We didn't do this... We didn't do that... We were slack... etc etc"

"I thought we slacked a few times and it cost us" JJ.

"We didn't push the tempo of the game" Marion.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by Billythekid
I agree with alot of what Sly Fly says. This teams doesn't show heart, but i also think that we are simply overrated. We aren't that good to be able to beat teams. We have the WORST center compo in the league hands down. We have no pure shooters. Unless you conside casey a pure shooter. I really don't.

I'm not sure they are the WORST center combo, but they certainly aren't championship caliber either. White needs to lose about 20 pounds and become a lot quicker and learn to catch the ball (he rarely had a chance in Washington). Voskuhl has some skilss, but his inability to defend the post without help is a major problem.

Unless Casey sharts showing some consistency, I would expect they might trade him and look for a free agent next summer.

 

[matt_whitlock]

Originally posted by George O'Brien
Unless Casey sharts showing some consistency, I would expect they might trade him and look for a free agent next summer.

Uhh, I don't know what you are talking about. For one and a half seasons now, Casey Jacobsen has been both white AND young. THAT'S consistency. And the Colangelo's love nothing more.

 

[matt_whitlock]

h

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by matt_whitlock
Uhh, I don't know what you are talking about. For one and a half seasons now, Casey Jacobsen has been both white AND young. THAT'S consistency. And the Colangelo's love nothing more.

Except for Googs, who is white and old.

 

[Errntknght]

D' has had about a dozen games now. The offense looks slightly less haphazard but we haven't any new ideas yet, which I find mildly disappointing. The best news is Donnell Harvey showing some movement and some decent moves to the hoop.

One thing I wish he'd do is instill more discipline regarding those early long jumpers. There not so bad when the situation is desperate but otherwise they are such momentum killers - and our would be offensive rebounders are always the most surprised guys on the floor. Steph is the usually the worst offender but Penny clanked up at least three of them in the Toronto game.

I've noticed them running the pinch post play with Voskuhl at the knuckle - which is pointless since he is neither a threat to shoot or drive. Let's hope D' remembers to try it with Zarko, who should be quite good at it.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by Errntknght
D' has had about a dozen games now. The offense looks slightly less haphazard but we haven't any new ideas yet, which I find mildly disappointing. The best news is Donnell Harvey showing some movement and some decent moves to the hoop.

One thing I wish he'd do is instill more discipline regarding those early long jumpers. There not so bad when the situation is desperate but otherwise they are such momentum killers - and our would be offensive rebounders are always the most surprised guys on the floor. Steph is the usually the worst offender but Penny clanked up at least three of them in the Toronto game.

I've noticed them running the pinch post play with Voskuhl at the knuckle - which is pointless since he is neither a threat to shoot or drive. Let's hope D' remembers to try it with Zarko, who should be quite good at it.

I totally agree. I have complainted about early 3's all season. If nothing else, they give the team no chance to get offensive rebounds.

Another problem is that except for Marbury who is erratic, the other Suns players have a very slow delivery on their long jump shots. They do much better on a "catch and shoot" when wide open, then when they have to move to take the shot.

I'd set a rule - no one can shoot a 3 (or even a long 2) with more than 5 seconds on the clock unless their overall shooting percentage is above 45%.