Playoffs: Nuggets @ Suns Thursday game thread 5-11-2023 - Game 6

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Crowder and now possibly Craig. Coupled with Monty's inability to make the right adjustments...he has to go if this team doesn't reach the finals.

Ayton too.

At some point KD will have his moment as well like he always does. Anyone really think Monty will be able to handle that issue?

 

[Mainstreet]

Ayton too.

At some point KD will have his moment as well like he always does. Anyone really think Monty will be able to handle that issue?

What do you think Aytons value is right now on a max contract?

 

[jagu]

Why did they stop using Craig? He can defend and the team needs more hands on deck defensively.

 

[Mainstreet]

Why did they stop using Craig? He can defend and the team needs more hands on deck defensively.

It's a good question. Craig's scoring can be a bit erratic but he is better than Okogie.

 

[elindholm]

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Didn't the Suns win the last Foster/Paul game?

 

[TJ]

Ayton too.

At some point KD will have his moment as well like he always does. Anyone really think Monty will be able to handle that issue?

at some point, you see the conglomerate of personnel issues and look for the common denominator. It’s Monty. He’s grossly mismanaged Ayton, Jalen, TC, Holiday, and others. And if KD gets moody, or Booker starts floating around trade demands, how does he handle it?

 

[Covert Rain]

Hopefully the Suns can bring in a GM who believes in the draft and scouting.

The Durant we are seeing now, is not a superstar. Maybe with more playing time, he can reach that level again. I sincerely hope so. This is the most we can hope for.

I still believe Cam Johnson, Mikal Bridges, a replacement for Jae Crowder, a third point guard and Dario Saric is better than what the Suns have on the court now.

Plus they still would have all four of their unprotected first round picks or if they traded one it would be protected.

I am saying, the standards are ridiculously high for a guy who has been a Superstar his entire career. The bar is ridiculously high if a guy is averaging 29.6 PPG, shooting 91% from the FT line, #4 in FTA, #9 in blocks and you are saying those are not Superstar numbers. There are only 4 guys left in the playoffs scoring more. Take his name out of it and those are Superstar playoff numbers. That's not the issue, it's HOW he is doing it which is not up to KD standards. He is typically more efficient.

In terms of the new GM and scouting. Not sure teams are going to have a choice with the new rules coming into play for salary caps.

 

[BirdGangThing]

.

at some point, you see the conglomerate of personnel issues and look for the common denominator. It’s Monty. He’s grossly mismanaged Ayton, Jalen, TC, Holiday, and others. And if KD gets moody, or Booker starts floating around trade demands, how does he handle it?

Booker's never floated any trade nonsense under Monty. Booker has thrived and made it to at least the 2nd round of the playoffs each of the last 3 years with Monty. Monty Williams is one of the reasons KD came here lol

Y'all wanna go after Monty do your thing

But making up extremely improbable situations that will unlikely ever arise in the future - is as sad as blaming Monty Williams for DeAndre Ayton

 

[TJ]

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Booker's never floated any trade nonsense under Monty. Booker has thrived and made it to at least the 2nd round of the playoffs each of the last 3 years with Monty. Monty Williams is one of the reasons KD came here lol

Y'all wanna go after Monty do your thing

But making up extremely improbable situations that will unlikely ever arise in the future - is as sad as blaming Monty Williams for DeAndre Ayton

Why wouldn’t I assign some blame to Monty for Ayton’s struggles when Monty himself has openly admitted on multiple occasions that he underutilizes him?

 

[Covert Rain]

at some point, you see the conglomerate of personnel issues and look for the common denominator. It’s Monty. He’s grossly mismanaged Ayton, Jalen, TC, Holiday, and others. And if KD gets moody, or Booker starts floating around trade demands, how does he handle it?

Book has been loyal and I know you are not saying he did or is going to float trade rumors. I think you are just floating a hypothetical if the wheels fall off. If that happens everything is on the table including the GM, Monty and shedding a ton of salary. The Suns won't be able to escape the Apron penalties coming as far over the cap as we are. I think as long as you give Book another stud to play with he will likely always be here. In terms of Monty, he sucks at adjustments, creates nonsenisical rotations and has gotten outcoached repeatedly the past 2 playoffs (this might make 3) but I don't put Ayton all on Monty. Most of Ayton's problems are Ayton.

 

[BirdGangThing]

Why wouldn’t I assign some blame to Monty for Ayton’s struggles when Monty himself has openly admitted on multiple occasions that he underutilizes him?

In my opinion everytime Monty Williams talks about DeAndre Ayton - he knows DeAndre Ayton is going to hear it so he chooses his words very carefully - which is also wise in my opinion because Ayton is fragile

There is no Ayton whisperer by the way

 

[TJ]

In my opinion everytime Monty Williams talks about DeAndre Ayton - he knows DeAndre Ayton is going to hear it so he chooses his words very carefully - which is also wise in my opinion because Ayton is fragile

There is no Ayton whisperer by the way

What is an “Ayton whisperer?”

 

[BirdGangThing]

What is an “Ayton whisperer?”

Somebody that can fix Ayton. I think everybody on the Suns has tried, players included

 

[TJ]

Somebody that can fix Ayton I think everybody on the Suns has tried, players included

Curious, why don’t you think he can be “fixed?”

 

[AzStevenCal]

What is an “Ayton whisperer?”

That's who you call when someone is hallucinayton.

 

[TJ]

That's who you call when someone is hallucinayton.

Maybe we need Cesar Millan to work with Ayton

 

[BirdGangThing]

Curious, why don’t you think he can be “fixed?”

Because it isn't a matter of assignments or footwork or anything fundamental like that. Hate to say it but you can't fix heart. You can't teach toughness. And you can't continue to baby a 7ft man who shrinks when you try.

 

[TJ]

Because it isn't a matter of assignments or footwork or anything fundamental like that. Hate to say it but you can't fix heart. You can't teach toughness. And you can't continue to baby a 7ft man who shrinks when you try.

A lot of what you’re saying are hypothetical constructs and I won’t go in circles with you because no matter what what I say, you’ll revert back to them. But you can’t with any degree of confidence say that Monty has put Ayton in a position to be successful in his career. This does not absolve Ayton from responsibility because he absolutely has to own his immaturity, but when Monty openly admits to underutilizing him, and Ayton + his camp have asked him repeatedly to give him more responsibilities on offense, it makes it very easy to pinpoint where a majority of the problems lie.

 

[GoldGloveschmidt]

Ayton has been the worst player in the playoffs on both offense and defense. He is totally lost. The game happens too fast for him to process. He's being abused in the pick and roll, allowing a frew layup line to the basket. Here is an example:

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He obviously should have gotten in front of Murray to cut him off from the basket but he's completely lost and useless.

KD has used all of his energy trying to cover for DA on defense and protect the rim, which has hurt his offensive game.

DA is the root of most of the Suns issues.

 

[GoldGloveschmidt]

A lot of what you’re saying are hypothetical constructs and I won’t go in circles with you because no matter what what I say, you’ll revert back to them. But you can’t with any degree of confidence say that Monty has put Ayton in a position to be successful in his career. This does not absolve Ayton from responsibility because he absolutely has to own his immaturity, but when Monty openly admits to underutilizing him, and Ayton + his camp have asked him repeatedly to give him more responsibilities on offense, it makes it very easy to pinpoint where a majority of the problems lie.

No sane coach is going to give Ayton more responsibility on offense. The guy still can't pin down a guard for an inlet pass, he doesn't work toward the pass, allows it to be poked away from behind, he can't dribble or he will be stripped, he can't hold the ball still in his hands or he will be stripped, he doesn't attack the basket, he won't dunk over a guard.

I am not a fan of Monty and hope we have a new coach next year, but he is not responsible for Ayton being a horrible player.

 

[BirdGangThing]

A lot of what you’re saying are hypothetical constructs and I won’t go in circles with you because no matter what what I say, you’ll revert back to them. But you can’t with any degree of confidence say that Monty has put Ayton in a position to be successful in his career. This does not absolve Ayton from responsibility because he absolutely has to own his immaturity, but when Monty openly admits to underutilizing him, and Ayton + his camp have asked him repeatedly to give him more responsibilities on offense, it makes it very easy to pinpoint where a majority of the problems lie.

No worries, I imagine we'll see next year when DeAndre isn't here. If Ayton does better (mentally and statistically) somewhere else I will be surprised af

 

[AzStevenCal]

Maybe we need Cesar Millan to work with Ayton

Maybe. A lot of people say DA has no "dog" in him, so Cesar might make a difference.

 

[TJ]

No sane coach is going to give Ayton more responsibility on offense. The guy still can't pin down a guard for an inlet pass, he doesn't work toward the pass, allows it to be poked away from behind, he can't dribble or he will be stripped, he can't hold the ball still in his hands or he will be stripped, he doesn't attack the basket, he won't dunk over a guard.

I am not a fan of Monty and hope we have a new coach next year, but he is not responsible for Ayton being a horrible player.

Saying Ayton is a “horrible player” is a bit of an overstatement, much like the remarks in your first paragraph. Had you said that Ayton needs to get his head out of his ass and focus on the game and deal with the politics in the offseason, then you’d be on point

 

[GoldGloveschmidt]

Saying Ayton is a “horrible player” is a bit of an overstatement, much like the remarks in your first paragraph. Had you said that Ayton needs to get his head out of his ass and focus on the game and deal with the politics in the offseason, then you’d be on point

When you are the absolute worst player in the playoffs, you are horrible. Dillon Brooks horrible.

 

[Mainstreet]

I am saying, the standards are ridiculously high for a guy who has been a Superstar his entire career. The bar is ridiculously high if a guy is averaging 29.6 PPG, shooting 91% from the FT line, #4 in FTA, #9 in blocks and you are saying those are not Superstar numbers. There are only 4 guys left in the playoffs scoring more. Take his name out of it and those are Superstar playoff numbers. That's not the issue, it's HOW he is doing it which is not up to KD standards. He is typically more efficient.

Superstar Durant is who the Suns traded for. Efficiency is part of the equation. Not only that, the Suns need three more years of superstar Durant.

In terms of the new GM and scouting. Not sure teams are going to have a choice with the new rules coming into play for salary caps.

I don't think the new CBA rules limit hiring a good GM, coach or scouts.

The Suns do have a 2nd round pick in the upcoming draft and there are always undrafted free agents.