BirdGangThing
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3 pointers were pretty close today. Clippers made 12 and we made 9
Difference is they had 37 attempts and we only had 22
Difference is they had 37 attempts and we only had 22
Playoffs: Suns @ Clippers Saturday game thread 4-22-2023 - Game 4
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I paid attention to the deets. Max isn't what you might think it is. DA is the 37th highest paid player this year which, according to PER, is right where he ranks as a player. Could he be better? Yes. Should he be better? Absolutely. But he gets what he gets and he gives what he gives, and the two aren't that far out of sync.
Damn you. You are well versed in great counter arguments....
You make everything as it should be... How dare you!
People get caught in the term “max” that’s not what it used to be. In fact when the new CBA comes into play that 30 million is going to be a basement price in his last two years.
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Ayton has bad games. Booker has bad games. The difference besides frequency of bad games? No one ever accuses Booker of not giving full effort. And that's why we get so frustrated by DA.Whatever....
You smell and so does Ayton.
So, there!
DA is every bit as gifted as Booker, maybe even more so, but it appears he doesn't always give full effort. So I understand anyone getting frustrated by Ayton's play, but he just isn't as bad as we often make him out to be.
TJ
Frank Kaminsky is my Hero.
Bizzy might, but he’d have to spend a lot of time on the perimeter, which opens the lane for AG and Murray
Ohhhhhhk. Disagree on that one .. booker can easily drive me nuts but his effort is always there IMO... Ayton hasn't earned, in the slightest, that kind of booker leeway in his career..I think that's where I stand with him .booker can frustrate me but Ayton be that guy who is clueless and a hack at the same time..lack of hustle earns you this label... IMO
Sunburn
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PER is notoriously generous to big men, which is why it has Clint Capela having a higher player efficiency rating than Devin Booker this season.
Here is an article ranking the best all-in-one metrics to judge players by according to a survey of NBA executives. The top 3 were DPM, EPM, and LEBRON. None of the surveyed participants used PER as their preferred metric. It was ranked last out of 13. This article is from 2021, so there might be a different preference now.
What is the best advanced statistic for basketball? NBA executives weigh in
Modern basketball debates often include one of the parties citing advanced analytics to prove their point. But are those metrics any good?
hoopshype.com
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I was either unclear or you read misread my post. Booker always gives full effort so we tend to be more lenient of his mistakes on off nights. Ayton "appears" to not give full effort more than we'd like.
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You're right, none of them are perfect and PER has definitely fallen out of favor but if you look at PER every year it's usually pretty reflective of the top players (as long as you ignore the short minutes players). I'm sure there are better metrics but I doubt they tell a remarkably different story.PER is notoriously generous to big men, which is why it has Clint Capela having a higher player efficiency rating than Devin Booker this season.
Here is an article ranking the best all-in-one metrics to judge players by according to a survey of NBA executives. The top 3 were DPM, EPM, and LEBRON. None of the surveyed participants used PER as their preferred metric. It was ranked last out of 13. This article is from 2021, so there might be a different preference now.
What is the best advanced statistic for basketball? NBA executives weigh in
Modern basketball debates often include one of the parties citing advanced analytics to prove their point. But are those metrics any good?
No unclarity. I agree with that. I've never been a huge fan of either. But I think Durant was for booker. I see the difference now. Ayton, not so much. This move was for booker and his effort.. .none of em care about Ayton. My conspiracy revolves around him never getting what he wants without his uofehhh buddy sarver. New owner will shop his ass..... Watch. JMO
This is why I always look at PER with other stats combined. It doesn’t mean much on its own. Still an indicator.
Sunburn
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I agree that it's pretty reflective at the top. However, after the top 20 or so it gets progressively more funky imo, especially when it comes to bigs.
The problem with Hollinger's method is instead of modeling a metric to determine player impact, he took the most impactful players to model the metric. This put too much weight on certain box score stats. The result is it skews the impact for the rest of the players in the league that aren't elite level studs
For justifying salary, the truth is no single metric is a justification for a max contract. Unless a team is comfortable handing out maxes to the Andre Drummond's and Jakob Poeltl's of the world.
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OP
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Somehow, I think you may have gotten my quote mixed up with another poster.
I didn't post "The clippers?" in this context.
OP
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Maybe you should send the spelling correction to Tomer Azarly via Twitter.
Any team. Again, that is assuming you have either Ayton or CP3 on their game. That's 3 options. Most teams have trouble stopping 2.
JCSunsfan
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Durant and CP3 spoke very highly of him in the postgame. Almost like they are recruiting him.
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If KD wanted it and Westbrook would agree to run the second unit, I’d take him in a second next year as the energizer bunny off the bench.
I think it's kind of funny how playing next to LeBron tarnished Westbrook's image, even amongst those who don't buy into the national narrative pushed by talking heads. All you have to do is watch him play and he's an absolute baller. He's not a good shooter and no one will ever say he is but when given enough leeway he can and does carry teams on his back through sheer force of will. It's impressive. He's definitely not washed up. He's not who he was even 5 years ago but he's still a top 10 point guard in the league whose desire to win shouldn't be questioned.
nashman
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Especially at his current rate lol they aren’t paying him almost anything…. Ha
Sabonis @ 20.7M sounds like a better deal... should have pulled the trigger last year with Indiana. Justification of the 31M is a joke. Looking fwd to him and Shamet being moved in the summer
People do caught up in the max money talk but this ain't one of those times. Ayton's production doesn't warrant 25% of the salary cap. There's no way even you can say his production warrants that sort of pay. He's making about $12 million more than Domantis Sabonis, for example, who is a 2 time All-Star. In what is that right? How about he's paid roughly the same as Shai or $10 million more than Mikal Bridges.
The CBA isn't changing much either, unless you want to talk how teams paying luxury tax repeatedly will lose their Midlevel Exception so when Ayton's contract is supposedly in the basement, we won't even be able sign anyone for more than the league minimum and you can be damn sure he'll be crowing about an extension at that point. I mean Booker got one, I imagine others from Ayton's draft class will start talking extensions around then too. What's the extension based on again? His current contract, where he's overpaid already.
There's no world in which Ayton's deal will be a bargain so long as he continues his lackadaisical play and since we've already seen that continue for 5 years, 2 now in the playoffs, it's safe to say that's who he is.
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