Playoffs: Suns @ Clippers Saturday game thread 4-22-2023 - Game 4

[clyde2tw]

People do caught up in the max money talk but this ain't one of those times. Ayton's production doesn't warrant 25% of the salary cap. There's no way even you can say his production warrants that sort of pay. He's making about $12 million more than Domantis Sabonis, for example, who is a 2 time All-Star. In what is that right? How about he's paid roughly the same as Shai or $10 million more than Mikal Bridges.

The CBA isn't changing much either, unless you want to talk how teams paying luxury tax repeatedly will lose their Midlevel Exception so when Ayton's contract is supposedly in the basement, we won't even be able sign anyone for more than the league minimum and you can be damn sure he'll be crowing about an extension at that point. I mean Booker got one, I imagine others from Ayton's draft class will start talking extensions around then too. What's the extension based on again? His current contract, where he's overpaid already.

There's no world in which Ayton's deal will be a bargain so long as he continues his lackadaisical play and since we've already seen that continue for 5 years, 2 now in the playoffs, it's safe to say that's who he is.

I'd also prefer to ship out DA in the summer for some cheaper centers like Turner, Capela, Claxton or Reid at around 20m/y, + other assets. But it's not fair to use occasional "bargain" contracts like Sabonis' or Mikal's as the standard, to measure how much someone in similar postion is overpaid. Both would get a max deal if they negotiated a new contract right now. On the other hand, at least Pacers and supposedly Mavs were and would be willing to give DA the max on the market.

 

[AzStevenCal]

People do caught up in the max money talk but this ain't one of those times. Ayton's production doesn't warrant 25% of the salary cap. There's no way even you can say his production warrants that sort of pay. He's making about $12 million more than Domantis Sabonis, for example, who is a 2 time All-Star. In what is that right? How about he's paid roughly the same as Shai or $10 million more than Mikal Bridges.

The CBA isn't changing much either, unless you want to talk how teams paying luxury tax repeatedly will lose their Midlevel Exception so when Ayton's contract is supposedly in the basement, we won't even be able sign anyone for more than the league minimum and you can be damn sure he'll be crowing about an extension at that point. I mean Booker got one, I imagine others from Ayton's draft class will start talking extensions around then too. What's the extension based on again? His current contract, where he's overpaid already.

There's no world in which Ayton's deal will be a bargain so long as he continues his lackadaisical play and since we've already seen that continue for 5 years, 2 now in the playoffs, it's safe to say that's who he is.

A lot of high salaried players are overpaid, DA is one of them. But he brings value to the court, more than I think you could get in a trade unless you dealt him for another max player that's overpaid. I don't see that as progress. If you trade him for a player you want that makes 15 or 20 million, it's going to cost us more than we have to make up the difference.

 

[Hoop Head]

A lot of high salaried players are overpaid, DA is one of them. But he brings value to the court, more than I think you could get in a trade unless you dealt him for another max player that's overpaid. I don't see that as progress. If you trade him for a player you want that makes 15 or 20 million, it's going to cost us more than we have to make up the difference.

Depends. I think the trade offers have been there in the past and I imagine some are close now. I can see Atlanta having some interest, apparently they did before. We'll see what happens this summer. I don't expect Ayton to be a Sun much longer as trading him is the most reasonable way to add depth. What that depth looks like, we'll see. I do think we can find a 2 for 1 deal where we add a Center on a more reasonable contract with someone else and that Center is likely to fill in for Ayton's production without much issue. We may see less games where they're overly productive but Ayton is way too up and down to depend on.

Just wanted to add that I'm sort of replying to both posts above, Steve's reply to me and @clyde2tw

 

[JCSunsfan]

Sabonis @ 20.7M sounds like a better deal... should have pulled the trigger last year with Indiana. Justification of the 31M is a joke. Looking fwd to him and Shamet being moved in the summer

When was that deal ever on the table?

 

[JCSunsfan]

Right. The lakers tried to move him off ball just so stupid

Yep. His perfect role is bringing off the bench and just giving him the ball. Put some shooters around him.

 

[GatorAZ]

Crazy close minutes/efficiency:
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You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Ronin]

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[Absolute Zero]

Am I the only one that finds it odd to be discussing shipping off our players during the middle of a successful playoff run where we have a shot at the title in the middle of a thread about the game in which we just took a commanding 3-1 lead?

 

[Hoop Head]

Am I the only one that finds it odd to be discussing shipping off our players during the middle of a successful playoff run where we have a shot at the title in the middle of a thread about the game in which we just took a commanding 3-1 lead?

We aren't in the middle of a title run. We've looked incredibly vulnerable during our wins against an undermanned Clippers squad. We also had a 3-1 lead against Dallas last year so commanding? Maybe but definitely not insurmountable.

 

[Mainstreet]

We aren't in the middle of a title run. We've looked incredibly vulnerable during our wins against an undermanned Clippers squad. We also had a 3-1 lead against Dallas last year so commanding? Maybe but definitely not insurmountable.

You know my position on the Kevin Durant trade.

I wanted Kevin Durant, but I wouldn't have made the trade because the Suns gave up too much. We see some of the reasons when we look at the Suns bench and their limited ability to improve the team.

However, if the Suns aren't in it to contend for a title, why did they trade for Kevin Durant?

 

[AzStevenCal]

We aren't in the middle of a title run. We've looked incredibly vulnerable during our wins against an undermanned Clippers squad. We also had a 3-1 lead against Dallas last year so commanding? Maybe but definitely not insurmountable.

He said we had a shot at the title and I can't disagree with that. It's incredibly slim and only happens if we stay healthy, if a couple of role players come up big and if CP3 has more days like yesterday. Granted even then it might also require a bit of poor luck for our opponents but that part doesn't seem like much of a stretch.

 

[Hoop Head]

You know my position on the Kevin Durant trade.

I wanted Kevin Durant, but I wouldn't have made the trade because the Suns gave up too much. We see some of the reasons when we look at the Suns bench and their limited ability to improve the team.

However, if the Suns aren't in it to contend for a title, why did they trade for Kevin Durant?

I think James Jones and/or Ishbia overrated the bench and what they'd be capable of doing. This is not a more legit title contender than the year we made the finals, which we weren't really then either but had some big breaks fall our way. So without a large dose of luck, it's not happening this year. I think we grossly overpaid for Durant and I like KD but feel like he's too fragile and our depth is essentially non existent so we'll need to make another move or two in the off-season and hope to sign a couple of rotation players to help build what can be a legit contender next year.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I think James Jones and/or Ishbia overrated the bench and what they'd be capable of doing. This is not a more legit title contender than the year we made the finals, which we weren't really then either but had some big breaks fall our way. So without a large dose of luck, it's not happening this year. I think we grossly overpaid for Durant and I like KD but feel like he's too fragile and our depth is essentially non existent so we'll need to make another move or two in the off-season and hope to sign a couple of rotation players to help build what can be a legit contender next year.

If it were me I'd hire the best development coaches out there to work individually with Bazley and Okogie if we re-sign him. I think that's our best chance to shore up our problem areas unless we can find a Mark Price, Jokic or Hornacek type player in the 2nd round. It's been done before but player evaluation/development has been a major weakness here for many years.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think James Jones and/or Ishbia overrated the bench and what they'd be capable of doing. This is not a more legit title contender than the year we made the finals, which we weren't really then either but had some big breaks fall our way. So without a large dose of luck, it's not happening this year. I think we grossly overpaid for Durant and I like KD but feel like he's too fragile and our depth is essentially non existent so we'll need to make another move or two in the off-season and hope to sign a couple of rotation players to help build what can be a legit contender next year.

I think we agree on the premise.

However, the question remains (not directed at you in particular), if the Suns aren't in it to contend for a title, why did they trade for Kevin Durant?

 

[Mainstreet]

The referees are allowing a lot of contact. No foul on this play by Booker.

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[Absolute Zero]

I think James Jones and/or Ishbia overrated the bench and what they'd be capable of doing. This is not a more legit title contender than the year we made the finals, which we weren't really then either but had some big breaks fall our way. So without a large dose of luck, it's not happening this year. I think we grossly overpaid for Durant and I like KD but feel like he's too fragile and our depth is essentially non existent so we'll need to make another move or two in the off-season and hope to sign a couple of rotation players to help build what can be a legit contender next year.

The trade discussions are like fingernails across the chalkboard during this playoff run. Our players are sure fighting for a title.

Perhaps we can all have a gentleman's agreement to defer the trade discussions until the offseason?

 

[Superbone]

Honestly. KD looks like he is pacing himself on the floor. Book is playing out of his mind, but he is still young. Ayton should have lots of energy left in the tank. He has barely moved so far in this series. The rest of the roster should be just fine.

This series does not have nearly the level of intensity or desperation that the first round series against the Pelicans did last year.

That is a great point and I think it's really going to help us next round. Our starters are still figuring out how to best gel with Durant. This is a good tune up for the next round. Hopefully, we'll continue to get better and better as a team as we progress and Monty figures out the best bench rotations as we move forward as well.

 

[Hoop Head]

The trade discussions are like fingernails across the chalkboard during this playoff run. Our players are sure fighting for a title.

Perhaps we can all have a gentleman's agreement to defer the trade discussions until the offseason?

No one said you had to participate in the discussion. I'm no fan of repeating things I've said many times over the last 2 months but if asked a question that involves the trades made this season, I will discuss them. I'm not saying I like discussing it still but it's virtually impossible to avoid entirely.

 

[Superbone]

Damn…

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Killed her in order to steal $1000.

 

[BirdGangThing]

Am I the only one that finds it odd to be discussing shipping off our players during the middle of a successful playoff run where we have a shot at the title in the middle of a thread about the game in which we just took a commanding 3-1 lead?

lol my thing lately is all the injury comments/warnings/predictions - i just cringe as my inner voice screams "don't jinx it!" like we're entering the 7th inning of a no hitter or something but then again i am more than superstitious - do you know how hard it is to find boxers that don't have the colors red or blue in them? I do, because we're playing the clippers right now - jeans are the only thing I'll wear that's even kinda blue

 

[Ronin]

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[Ronin]

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[Ronin]

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[Treesquid PhD]

People do caught up in the max money talk but this ain't one of those times. Ayton's production doesn't warrant 25% of the salary cap. There's no way even you can say his production warrants that sort of pay. He's making about $12 million more than Domantis Sabonis, for example, who is a 2 time All-Star. In what is that right? How about he's paid roughly the same as Shai or $10 million more than Mikal Bridges.

The CBA isn't changing much either, unless you want to talk how teams paying luxury tax repeatedly will lose their Midlevel Exception so when Ayton's contract is supposedly in the basement, we won't even be able sign anyone for more than the league minimum and you can be damn sure he'll be crowing about an extension at that point. I mean Booker got one, I imagine others from Ayton's draft class will start talking extensions around then too. What's the extension based on again? His current contract, where he's overpaid already.

There's no world in which Ayton's deal will be a bargain so long as he continues his lackadaisical play and since we've already seen that continue for 5 years, 2 now in the playoffs, it's safe to say that's who he is.

But I like the University of Arizona Wildcats and he makes me feel good about them.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

I think we agree on the premise.

However, the question remains (not directed at you in particular), if the Suns aren't in it to contend for a title, why did they trade for Kevin Durant?

I disagree. They knew what was going to happen that's why it took so long to do the deal. Jones is especially dumb with drafting so I am sure he had significant anxiety moving forward, knowing it's only a matter of time his ass gets shipped out. Remember Jones is a Sarver guy and really sucks at talent ID.

I think the plan was always for 2023/2024, Jones is going to have to get off his lazy aass watching you tube and scout like a real GM. Also, I'd expect staff turover, for example, what has Mark Bryant actually done? He never works Ayton's hands, he just smiles when Ayton shoots three and does Granny shots pre game, get that fracker out of here and yes I don't give a frack if you liked him in 1994.

Maybe we should hire Dumas to teach the players how to do cocaine too, he was popular.

Bottomline try to go far in 23, then redo the roster and make coaching changes. It's going to happen all new regimes change things.