Playoffs: Suns @ Clippers Saturday game thread 4-22-2023 - Game 4

[BirdGangThing]

I disagree. They knew what was going to happen that's why it took so long to do the deal. Jones is especially dumb with drafting so I am sure he had significant anxiety moving forward, knowing it's only a matter of time his ass gets shipped out. Remember Jones is a Sarver guy and really sucks at talent ID.

Jones is responsible for bringing Mikal here the same night the 76ers drafted him. James Jones then did the same thing when the Timberwolves drafted Cam Johnson. I'd consider both of these to count as far as his drafting resume goes, and I'd consider both of those moves to be the only reason we have Kevin Durant right now - but that's just me

 

[Mainstreet]

I disagree. They knew what was going to happen that's why it took so long to do the deal. Jones is especially dumb with drafting so I am sure he had significant anxiety moving forward, knowing it's only a matter of time his ass gets shipped out. Remember Jones is a Sarver guy and really sucks at talent ID.

I think the plan was always for 2023/2024, Jones is going to have to get off his lazy aass watching you tube and scout like a real GM. Also, I'd expect staff turover, for example, what has Mark Bryant actually done? He never works Ayton's hands, he just smiles when Ayton shoots three and does Granny shots pre game, get that fracker out of here and yes I don't give a frack if you liked him in 1994.

Maybe we should hire Dumas to teach the players how to do cocaine too, he was popular.

Bottomline try to go far in 23, then redo the roster and make coaching changes. It's going to happen all new regimes change things.

I don't think the trade for Durant happens as formatted unless Mat Ishbia pushes it over the top.

James Jones may not particularly value draft picks, but I think he valued what Cam Johnson and Mikal Bridges brought to the table. He values tangible talent, although he is not fond of developing it.

Putting all your chips on a championship run in 2023-24 is a dangerous game to play with a 35-year-old player with a history of injury.

Also, it's really going to be hard for the Suns to put a deeper team on the court next season unless they trade Ayton. The new CBA takes care of that. However, with his contract, I'm uncertain of the return.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I don’t like playing prevent offense. Stop milking it just keep playing

Monty calls for it way too early. 3+ minutes is not four corners time. Take good looks.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Booker put up 30 and it was like he was just average.

Well, he was a sidekick yesterday . . .

 

[TJ]

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Fan support in LA was great. There were tons of Suns fans there. Mr ORNG was two sections over from us Game 3

 

[Mainstreet]

I don’t like playing prevent offense. Stop milking it just keep playing

During the Finals run, I used to call the last five minutes of the game Chris Paul time.

He was so good at milking the clock and getting a good shot or finding an easy shot for a teammate. Since then, it's never been quite the same.

 

[TJ]

I paid attention to the deets. Max isn't what you might think it is. DA is the 37th highest paid player this year which, according to PER, is right where he ranks as a player. Could he be better? Yes. Should he be better? Absolutely. But he gets what he gets and he gives what he gives, and the two aren't that far out of sync.

Bottom line is the Suns need to figure out what they want to do with Ayton this offseason and not any longer. It's not fair to the team, Ayton and the fans to continue to kick this can down the road.

There are two options:

1) Come up with a plan to make him a consistent option on offense. Ayton has said that he wants to play more on the outside and diversify his game. Provide him honest feedback and help him to achieve his goal while being the best asset he can be for the team. Actually find him a coach that can work with him and not Mark Bryant.

2) Trade him. Replenish the bench and get some draft picks back.

I think 2 is the more viable option. I think at the end of the day, Ayton and the Suns are sick of each other and it's probably best that both parties move on. Because for the Suns, Ayton and the drama that surrounds him have become a distraction.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

He’s not “worthless” his offense has been hit and miss but his defense has been great the metrics show it. Him and Booker are playing great defense.

This series? He hasn’t been good this series defensively imo.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Ayton has bad games. Booker has bad games. The difference besides frequency of bad games? No one ever accuses Booker of not giving full effort. And that's why we get so frustrated by DA.

DA is every bit as gifted as Booker, maybe even more so, but it appears he doesn't always give full effort. So I understand anyone getting frustrated by Ayton's play, but he just isn't as bad as we often make him out to be.

That’s it 100%. It’s an effort and balls thing to me. Ayton is lazy and he compounds it by playing smaller than he is because he’s afraid of contact. Lazy and wuss play are my primary complaints about him.

 

[Finito]

This series? He hasn’t been good this series defensively imo.

Yup this series. Him and Booker are playing off the charts apparently.

 

[Finito]

Bottom line is the Suns need to figure out what they want to do with Ayton this offseason and not any longer. It's not fair to the team, Ayton and the fans to continue to kick this can down the road.

There are two options:

1) Come up with a plan to make him a consistent option on offense. Ayton has said that he wants to play more on the outside and diversify his game. Provide him honest feedback and help him to achieve his goal while being the best asset he can be for the team. Actually find him a coach that can work with him and not Mark Bryant.

2) Trade him. Replenish the bench and get some draft picks back.

I think 2 is the more viable option. I think at the end of the day, Ayton and the Suns are sick of each other and it's probably best that both parties move on. Because for the Suns, Ayton and the drama that surrounds him have become a distraction.

I think you got to see him with a different coaching staff. I’ve said from jump Monty can only go so far

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Yup this series. Him and Booker are playing off the charts apparently.

It’s why I don’t put much faith in defensive metrics. You can see bookers defense on the court. You can see every player scoring over and over and over against Ayton.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think you got to see him with a different coaching staff. I’ve said from jump Monty can only go so far

I’d agree with this.

 

[ajcardfan]

I think you got to see him with a different coaching staff. I’ve said from jump Monty can only go so far

And he isn't Ishba's coach.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I think you got to see him with a different coaching staff. I’ve said from jump Monty can only go so far

You can't fire Monty unless you have a Pop or Spoelstra to replace him.

 

[Finito]

You can't fire Monty unless you have a Pop or Spoelstra to replace him.

Hell Jason Kidd,Udoka, Nick Nurse and Ty Lue all might be available

All them would be upgrades. It’s not just the Xs and Os you need a different voice,

 

[Phrazbit]

Hell Jason Kidd,Udoka, Nick Nurse and Ty Lue all might be available

All them would be upgrades. It’s not just the Xs and Os you need a different voice,

I don't care what happened last year, Kidd would not be an upgrade. He's an awful coach that has been ran out of several cities on a rail.

When the Mavs dump him, it should be the end of his coaching career.

And... unless we collapse and blow this series, Monty ain't getting fired.

Pray for him to bring in some creative assistants.

Although, I could see Monty resigning. He has seemed somewhat burned out this year.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Hell Jason Kidd,Udoka, Nick Nurse and Ty Lue all might be available

All them would be upgrades. It’s not just the Xs and Os you need a different voice,

I don't see any of them as an upgrade. Maybe Lue. Nurse would be better as an assistant.

We miss having Willie Green on our staff. Bring on Nurse as an assistant until he gets his next head coaching gig.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I disagree. They knew what was going to happen that's why it took so long to do the deal. Jones is especially dumb with drafting so I am sure he had significant anxiety moving forward, knowing it's only a matter of time his ass gets shipped out. Remember Jones is a Sarver guy and really sucks at talent ID.

I think the plan was always for 2023/2024, Jones is going to have to get off his lazy aass watching you tube and scout like a real GM. Also, I'd expect staff turover, for example, what has Mark Bryant actually done? He never works Ayton's hands, he just smiles when Ayton shoots three and does Granny shots pre game, get that fracker out of here and yes I don't give a frack if you liked him in 1994.

Maybe we should hire Dumas to teach the players how to do cocaine too, he was popular.

Bottomline try to go far in 23, then redo the roster and make coaching changes. It's going to happen all new regimes change things.

Hmm. Jones drafting record is OK. Not sure why you would say he is especially dumb. No GM in this league looks especially great at drafting, especially when their teams are deep already. The Suns had been a fairly deep team until the KD trade.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Hmm. Jones drafting record is OK. Not sure why you would say he is especially dumb. No GM in this league looks especially great at drafting, especially when their teams are deep already. The Suns had been a fairly deep team until the KD trade.

We were legendarily horrible at drafting under Ryan. With JJ at the helm, we really have no clue whether he's great at it, horrible at it or somewhere in between.

But if the decision to do away with all our college, international and high school scouting along with much of our player development capability was all JJ then we know all we need to know about him. If Ishbia isn't planning on replacing him soon our best hope is that it was Sarver that drove all those scouting and development decisions.

 

[TJ]

Hell Jason Kidd,Udoka, Nick Nurse and Ty Lue all might be available

All them would be upgrades. It’s not just the Xs and Os you need a different voice,

Kidd can kick rocks (anything as long as it's not his wife). I'd totally look at the other three. I used to think Lue was an average at best coach, but the way he's coached up the Clippers with their duct tape lineup has me impressed.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Kidd can kick rocks (anything as long as it's not his wife). I'd totally look at the other three. I used to think Lue was an average at best coach, but the way he's coached up the Clippers with their duct tape lineup has me impressed.

I wouldn't touch Kidd after the crap he pulled getting out of New Jersey and the mess he created in Milwaukee but I think he's a solid game coach. I think Lue is one of the best coaches in the game but that's watching him from a distance. I was surprised to learn that a lot of LAC fans feel otherwise about him.

 

[BirdGangThing]

You can't fire Monty unless you have a Pop or Spoelstra to replace him.

Aside from people on the internet - nobody's firing Monty Williams

 

[Covert Rain]

You can't fire Monty unless you have a Pop or Spoelstra to replace him.

Yep. You can't just fire Monty without a plan. If Monty craps the bed again (like another collapse)? That would be 3 in a row. The Suns would have a hard time keeping him. I think they would wait until after next year though. I could see if we don't have a title by end of next year that they move on from both KD and Monty together. You just can't keep a coach who keeps collapsing in the playoffs. I think he gets two more cracks at it (this playoffs and next).

 

[Hoop Head]

Yep. You can't just fire Monty without a plan. If Monty craps the bed again (like another collapse)? That would be 3 in a row. The Suns would have a hard time keeping him. I think they would wait until after next year though. I could see if we don't have a title by end of next year that they move on from both KD and Monty together. You just can't keep a coach who keeps collapsing in the playoffs. I think he gets two more cracks at it (this playoffs and next).

Genuine question, when is a playoff loss not a collapse to you? I can understand calling the Dallas series a collapse. I disagree with the loss to Milwaukee being a collapse. So I'm curious, is anything short of a title this year a collapse?