POP: gasol deal incomprehensible

F-Dog

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Popovich vs. the Lakers? Hmm, tough call.



Eh, Pop can go sit on a microphone. Never forget, Pop's legacy as the worst coach in the entire history of the Olympics will eventually overshadow every one of his so-called accomplishments in the NBA.
 

The Man In Black

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Spurs fans only want the truth to be known. You cannot control what people will say about you. All you can do is go out and get results. 4 titles...now that's results.
Who cares about respect? When it gets down to it...you want a championships. It's the reason that they play the game.
It's like the ratings. Spurs don't go out and think about Nielsen ratings, they only care about winning. And since Tim first came to the league, the Spurs have done that BETTER than any other team in North America. ANY TEAM.
Pop's legacy as the worst coach in the entire history of the Olympics will eventually overshadow every one of his so-called accomplishments in the NBA.
Hey...pssstt...shows how much you know, Pop was never the Head coach for the US Team...F-DOG needs to do his research.

P
Digger Phelps Notre Dame
1986 U.S. Olympic Fest. (N)
0-4​
Fourth

Norman Pilgrim U. S. Armed Forces
1955 Pan American Games
4-1​
Gold

Jerry Pimm Utah
1982 U.S. Olympic Fest. (W)
0-4​
Fourth

Garland Pinholster Oglethorpe
1963 World Championship
3-3​
Fourth

1963 Pan American Games
6-0​
Gold​

George Pitts Scient Hill H.S. (TN)
1999 Youth Dev. Festival (S)
5-0​
Gold​

Oliver Purnell Dayton
1999 World Univ. Games
8-0​
Gold​

1994 U.S. Olympic Fest. (E)
3-1​
Silver​
 
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jbeecham

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Wasn't Popovich an assistant coach with Team USA when Larry Brown was the head coach in one of the worst Team USA showings in the last few decades?
 
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mathbzh

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[SIZE=-1]Kupchak made him an offer he couldn't refuse[/SIZE]
 

Bufalay

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I love it, I'm glad Popovich is so angry.

I'm no Spurs fan, in fact, I hate them, but I used to respect Popovich till he goes and opens his big fat mouth for no apparent reason. I'm just going to say this, to the people that think there is some conspiracy that allowed the Lakers to get Gasol, you have to be ********. If there is any team that the league has shown a favoritism toward it's the Spurs, not the Lakers. I guess you would have to be a Laker fan to understand, but we don't get jack from the league, never have. The Lakers have built their teams on one thing and one thing only, good management. Pop knows it and so does everyone else, so all the conspiracy theorists can just suck it.

The bottom line is the Spurs are looking at a Western Conference where the Lakers just got Gasol, the Suns just got Shaq, the Mavericks are involved in just about every trade talk going, and the Spurs are sitting with their thumbs up their asses doing nothing. I guess it's never to early to start making excuses, that must be Pop's philosophy. He's just setting the stage so that he has a reason to cry foul this off season when one of these teams beat them out of the playoffs. Popovich is an ass clown.

Is it good management or just the fact that they are in LA? I mean, Shaq just decides to leave Orlando because the Lakers have such good management? What about Kobe refusing to play for Charlotte?
 

Darth Llama

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Is it good management or just the fact that they are in LA? I mean, Shaq just decides to leave Orlando because the Lakers have such good management? What about Kobe refusing to play for Charlotte?

First of all, Kobe didn't refuse to play for Charlotte, LA made a bold move and traded for him right after the 1996 draft. Vlade Divac was one of the better centers in the league that year and they traded him for a 17 year old kid that not many people knew that much about. Why? Because even though they already had 2 all star guards in Eddie Jones and Nick VanExel, the Lakers realized a great talent and took the shot. Looking back now, you see that the Lakers traded Vlade straight across for Kobe and it's probably the steal of the century.

1996 was a perfect example of what I'm talking about. After aquiring Bryant, the Lakers were criticized because they traded away their force in the middle for another high flying guard. The Lakers responded to that by picking up O'neal as a free agent, and the rest is history. You can bet that the history of the Lakers was the big lure for O'neal. The Lakers attract top talent, and that's just a fact. There was a time when Phoenix couldn't say the same, but you have to give the Suns credit for the way they have turned that around. Phoenix is now considered a great place to play as well, and the Suns should be proud of what they have built here in recent years. Teams like the Spurs and even the Mavericks seem to be losing their luster due to lack of activity and in the Mavericks case, the constant inability to turn their talent into championships.
 
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Joe Mama

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Wow. I can't believe some of you guys. I mean I can understand the Lakers fans in here arguing although I think deep down inside they know that they really don't have a leg to stand on. I mean be honest with yourselves. If the Phoenix Suns had kept Kurt Thomas, and then three weeks before the trade deadline they sent that package that went to Seattle along with strawberry for Gasol all the Lakers fans would be screaming that the deal wasn't fair. They would say it had something to do with Ivaroni's relationship with the Phoenix Suns. Hell, I would think the same thing. Any person thinking rationally should, and that package would be better than what the LA Lakers sent to Memphis.

Comparing this to tanking a season (something every team in the San Antonio Spurs position before the Duncan draft would have done and did do, and I don't even think there's a valid argument they did tank) or picking up a player who was bought out of his contract is apples and oranges. There's no reason to suspect that the Dallas Mavericks or Memphis grizzlies bought out Stoudamire or Michael Finley to do anything other than help themselves financially and to get younger players on the court. The Gasol deal was either one lazy job of managing a team, or there something more going on there.

Let's just be clear about something here. It's not just Marc Cuban and Pops complaining about this deal. If they aren't doing it publicly the rest of the NBA front offices are doing it privately. Everybody understands why the Memphis grizzlies made the deal. The problem isn't that they've essentially folded their season to get their young players minutes and make the treaty more attractive for sale. The problem is that they made a bad deal, and apparently they didn't even make much effort to do better. They also made the deal 3-4 weeks before the trade deadline.

So Lakers fans, enjoy your team. When they are healthy I think they are clearly the team to beat in the league. You guys should be happy about your team. If the Phoenix Suns made a deal like that I would be happy as hell. Just please don't come to another team's message board and argue that there's no reason to complain about it. Pops is absolutely right. If we're going to have deals like this there should be some sort of committee to judge deals before they go through. I'm not saying they should scrutinize the hell out of every trade, but BS like this shouldn't happen.

Joe Mama
 

Darth Llama

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I understand fans of other teams being unhappy with the deal. What I don't understand is the people who divert to the theory that it's some sort of conspiracy, and that the NBA for some reason wants the Lakers to be good. That's totally and completely ridiculous.

Yes, the Grizzlies gave the Lakers the deal of the century because they are scrapping the team. I understand that, and yes, if the Suns had gotten the same deal, I would be unhappy. I would not however, accuse the Suns of being in league with Stern or being part of some great conspiracy. The bottom line is, what the Grizzlies did was legal, and what's done is done. People can be upset all they want, but when they start barking about the NBA setting it up intentionally, they just sound stupid. I don't blame any non Laker fans for being upset about the trade. The Lakers added an all star player for pretty much nothing, that would upset most non Laker fans. In the end though, it was the Lakers that saw the opening before anyone else, and they deserve credit for that. Like it or not, the Lakers benefited from staying active and persistence. There is no rule anywhere that says you have to wait till the trade deadline to pull a trade.
 
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BeeBeard

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OK, so the Lakers have the benefit of history on their side, while the Suns have worked hard to create a quality organization of their own. Guys, I think we're forgetting a team here.

That's right, Sacramento. Sacramento Kings dancers are AWESOME. (mildly NSFW).
 

D-Dogg

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Is it good management or just the fact that they are in LA? I mean, Shaq just decides to leave Orlando because the Lakers have such good management?

Both. The Lakers had to dump salaries and get rid of players to get Shaq. They expected to get him for around 95 million, and ended up at 122 million, iirc. To do that, they had to release and trade off players they wanted to keep. It wasn't handed to them, at all. And it was DANGEROUS stuff. Jerry West was out on a wire there...no net. If Shaq had stayed with Orlando or decided to go elsewhere, West would have failed miserably. We gutted our roster before we got the man.

It was a gamble of huge proportions. We got lucky that the allure of LA, the history, West's reputation and lots of money all combined to bring Shaq to town. LA gets breaks because of their history, management and location.
 

ambchang_

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Both. The Lakers had to dump salaries and get rid of players to get Shaq. They expected to get him for around 95 million, and ended up at 122 million, iirc. To do that, they had to release and trade off players they wanted to keep. It wasn't handed to them, at all. And it was DANGEROUS stuff. Jerry West was out on a wire there...no net. If Shaq had stayed with Orlando or decided to go elsewhere, West would have failed miserably. We gutted our roster before we got the man.

It was a gamble of huge proportions. We got lucky that the allure of LA, the history, West's reputation and lots of money all combined to bring Shaq to town. LA gets breaks because of their history, management and location.

Of course, the Lakers tampered before they shipped off those deals, so West had their safety net.
 

Covert Rain

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Obvious huh...BS and you know it. If you are going to tank and you desperately need the #1 pick...then answer this question braniac steel dog...then why do you settle for a 20% chance knowing full well that Vancouver & Boston have WAY MORE CHANCES than you?

Which starters were sitting? You mean the guys in all the suits with injuries? Yeah...sure. Medically speaking, the Spurs should've lost more games than they did.

So what's your body temp at? Is it 107? I'd go to the St. Luke's Hospital right now. Valley Fever can be a pain and recovery is easier if caught early.

OBVIOUS or does it just soothe hurt feelings like blaming a rule that has been in existence for 10 seasons?

You can't win the lottery if you don't play. That was a stupid question. Just because someone else has a better chance doesn't mean you don't want to play. You improve your chances the more you lose....PERIOD. The Spurs were trying to improve their lottery chances. Of course they didn't know they would get the #1 pick but if you don't tank it, you have no shot at all. Understand that "brainiac"?

Unbelievable. Did I mention guys in suits? I was speaking to guys he had starting. He would take the starters out and sit them, put in the back side of the bench. Then came out and made comments like he is giving other guys looks to figure out what he has got. Oh come on. Most of those guys on the back side of the bench were never going to be anything other then scrubs and he knew it.

Since when has any NBA coach done that in games for entire halfs of a games? For consecutive WEEKS even!. I have a bridge to sell you if you think is not tanking it. Every freaking NBA outlet was questioning it. Even other coaches and GM's were making comments about the Spurs tanking it. Get real!

POP is a hypocrite. He wants a committee to review all trades before they are approved. Here is an idea...lets have that same committee monitor player minutes for coaches trying to improve their draft position before the end of the season.
 
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abomb

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Of course, the Lakers tampered before they shipped off those deals, so West had their safety net.

Riiiight. :bigyawn:

Are you saying this because Shaq turned down more total money with ORL? He made up the difference and then some with endorsements, not to mention his problems with Magic management.
 

D-Dogg

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Of course, the Lakers tampered before they shipped off those deals, so West had their safety net.

How do you "tamper" in a free agent negotiation? Shaq was a free agent. They were negotiating. They needed to free up more money because their first offers weren't enough.
 

abomb

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How do you "tamper" in a free agent negotiation? Shaq was a free agent. They were negotiating. They needed to free up more money because their first offers weren't enough.

I did some Google searches and this is what it stemmed from;

Mark Stein circa 1996 said:
LAKERS PLAN ATTACK FOR SHAQ : MAGIC CENTER IS L.A.'S TOP PRIORITY.
Byline: Marc Stein Daily News Staff Writer

It's the get-rich summer Jerry West was never afforded as a player.

It's the free-agent jackpot that has eluded West lately in management.

It's the bonanza being billed as the richest swap meet in the history of professional sports, and it's starting for the Lakers vice president and everyone else in the NBA at precisely 9:01 (PDT) this morning.

That's when, barring a last-minute delay in the signing of the league's new labor agreement, a moratorium on basketball business is lifted and more than 150 players - roughly one-third of the sport's populace - will go onto the open market.

That's when West, who long ago targeted Orlando's Shaquille O'Neal as the prime catch from that mass of hoop humanity, becomes legally cleared to open negotiations that could give even a city saturated with stars an unprecedented shake.

Or leave Los Angeles and its Lakers centerless.

``Shaq's not one for dragging things out,'' said Leonard Armato, O'Neal's L.A.-based agent. ``It would be nice to know what is going to be offered and to get this process underway.''

Nice, indeed, for O'Neal, who along with fellow free-agent heavyweights Michael Jordan, Juwan Howard, Gary Payton, Reggie Miller and Alonzo Mourning is expected to wind up with an annual salary closer to $20 million than $10 million.

NBA commissioner David Stern, in fact, predicts that the league's 29 teams will dole out $1 billion - yes, you read billion - in guaranteed contracts this off-season.

And yet, West and his peers can't wait to start spending, their free-for-all having already been delayed eight days (from July 1 until today) as a result of collective-bargaining talks that went overtime.

West's eagerness could just as well be termed urgency. With Vlade Divac bound for Charlotte and Elden Campbell a highly coveted free agent, the Lakers are essentially without an established post man as they enter talks with O'Neal.

``Free agency is important to all of us - not just the Lakers,'' West said on draft night. ``It gives you the opportunity to get a player who has already proven himself in this league and might significantly help your team.

``. . . I'm assuming that we're going to have some new faces on our team, that's for sure.''

The first to arrive will be prep phenom Kobe Bryant, the 13th overall selection in last month's college draft who was acquired by West from Charlotte in exchange for Divac.

Now that the veteran center has backed off his threat to retire if traded, and with the salary cap poised to rise to $24.3 million as soon as the moratorium ends, the deal can go through officially - sending Bryant west and positioning the Lakers to make a monster bid for O'Neal.

Depending on how many of their seven free agents the Lakers let go, West can now offer O'Neal between $8.5-12 million for his first season here. Even at the low end of that range - where the Lakers will probably have to be if they adhere to plan and keep Campbell - the overall worth of a seven-year package approaches the magic figure of $100 million ($95.5 million to be exact, based on 20-percent increases per season).

By dealing away Divac and adding Bryant and No. 24 overall pick Derek Fisher from Arkansas-Little Rock, the Lakers gained about $2.8 million in cap room to add to the space that will be created by renouncing the rights to free agents Sedale Threatt, Derek Strong, Pig Miller, Fred Roberts and Frankie King, and the retirement of Magic Johnson.

If O'Neal demands most or all of the $12 million, West will be forced to either renounce the rights to Campbell as well or trade away

Trade away
Trade execution by another broker/dealer. Anthony Peeler or Cedric Ceballos for a future draft pick and hope Bryant adapts quickly to the big time.

``Sometimes,'' West admitted, ``you put yourself at risk when you try to make a team better.''

Around the league, of course, it's widely assumed that the deal is done, that West would never have agreed to move Divac without knowing with certainty that O'Neal is on the way.

The risk there is a tampering charge that, if proven, comes with a $5 million fine to the offending team. It's a penalty even the agent fears; Armato has reportedly instructed O'Neal not to mention the Lakers at all when fielding questions about free agency during his Olympic duties with Dream Team III.

What little O'Neal has said about his future, however, has been enough to worry the Magic, which figures to come up by at least $10 million on its initial four-year offer worth $54.76 million.

Orlando teammates Penny Hardaway and Dennis Scott are making daily pleas for the 7-foot-1, 303-pound giant to stay, begging him to give the Magic Kingdom - and the fans who have at times flustered O'Neal with their expectations and criticism - another chance.

``Orlando is the first option, but when the ninth (of July) comes, I don't know what I'm going to do,'' O'Neal said last week.

Should O'Neal decide to remain with the Magic, West could find himself facing a much greater degree of uncertainty.

It's conceivable that the other big men the Lakers like - Washington's Howard, Denver's Dikembe Mutombo, Miami's Chris Gatling and especially the Clippers' Brian Williams - will be gone by the time O'Neal makes his decision.

And what if Campbell leaves before O'Neal is nailed down?

It must be said that, in the recent past, West hasn't been a lucky shopper. In 1994, Horace Grant and Danny Manning spurned the Lakers' cash to sign elsewhere. And last summer, after creating some spending room through a series of roster moves, the Lakers watched helplessly as a new salary cap with new rules was voted in, changing everything.

``This is a year, in free agency, (that) I think's got a lot of people nervous,'' said Seattle coach George Karl. ``And where it goes, how it goes, what happens. . . .''

Only gamblers like West - or, rather, surefire stars like O'Neal - can complete that thought.
 

ambchang_

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Riiiight. :bigyawn:

Are you saying this because Shaq turned down more total money with ORL? He made up the difference and then some with endorsements, not to mention his problems with Magic management.

Yeah, because if you were the Lakers, why would you sell the farm if you KNEW you can't offer more $ than the Magic unless you know that Shaq is coming?
 

ambchang_

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Wow....just wow. I hope you were not serious about this post. It was obvious to everybody in the NBA that the Spurs were tanking the season. I never seen a coach sit starters during games more then POP that season. He even sat starters for nearly the entire 2nd half in games. Come on. Don't even go there.

Wow ... just wow. I hope you are not serious about this post. It was obvious to everybody who reads this thread that you are making stuff up as you go. I have never seen a person spew fiction as facts without doing ANY research whatsoever.

The main starters for the Spurs that season are:
Del Negro, Avery Johnson, Carl Herrera, Greg Anderson, Will Perdue, and Sean Elliott, the line up was constantly changed due to injuries to Robinson, Elliott and Chuck Person. Those players played 31.2, 32.5, 24.5, 20.2, 29.5, 35.7 mpg respectively. You may notice that the most talented players got more minutes (AJ, Sean Elliott). Also, Nique played 30.9 mpg that season and started 26 games. Now explain to me, what were you expecting?

The Spurs record, broken down by month, was:
Nov: 2-13
Dec: 5-7
Jan: 4-11
Feb: 2-12
Mar: 5-10
Apr: 2-9

Now WHY would the Spurs have a pretty much constant winning percentage throughout the whole year when they were tanking? Won't they have a continuously declining record? In fact, their winning percentage (no counting the 1st two games where they were 0-2), was lowest at game 13.
 

slinslin

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The Spurs record, broken down by month, was:
Nov: 2-13
Dec: 5-7
Jan: 4-11
Feb: 2-12
Mar: 5-10
Apr: 2-9

Now WHY would the Spurs have a pretty much constant winning percentage throughout the whole year when they were tanking? Won't they have a continuously declining record? In fact, their winning percentage (no counting the 1st two games where they were 0-2), was lowest at game 13.

Because instead of bringing back the players they decided to rather just keep losing.
 

ambchang_

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Because instead of bringing back the players they decided to rather just keep losing.
Another baseless accusation. Robinson was actually brought back for 6 games before his season ended. Sean Elliott and AJ played well into the season before they were shelved.

EDIT: BTW, this was not the original argument anyways, you guys are literally just throwing **** and hope some sticks because you don't have anything of substance to say. Truly pathetic.
 
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ambchang_

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Look at the record of Boston, who was a team who actually got the worst record in the league that season.
Nov: 4-10
Dec: 2-11
Jan: 4-11
Feb: 1-13
Mar: 2-14
Apr: 2-8. Also note that the 2 victories were achieved in games 78 and 81, when the worst record was all but locked up.
Boston actually had a halfway respectable record at the beginning of the season, with a 33.33% winning % as late as game 12. The record the free fall to a low of 17.5% in game 80, before they won a game when the record for the worst record was locked up.
 

D-Dogg

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Yeah, because if you were the Lakers, why would you sell the farm if you KNEW you can't offer more $ than the Magic unless you know that Shaq is coming?

What happened shows you are wrong. They started off with a $95 million offer and had to keep moving players to create the salary to do $122 million dollar deal. Orlando kept upping the ante but the Lakers banked on their history, management and the LA allure to get him there. If they knew he was coming, why would they not have cleared up the right amount of money instead of dumping contract after contract during negotiations.

They went out on a limb, but confident they could get the prize. They didn't "know" they would get him, but they were pretty sure he'd want to play there. That's not collusion or tampering or cheating. It's leveraging your long, established history of winning titles, management willing to do whatever it took and living in an entertainment capitol.
 

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