Preseason: Flamengo at Suns 10-8-14

[AzStevenCal]

Well, I have been watching preseason highlights of Noel. Um. If I had to choose between the two at this moment, I would choose Noel. That doesn't mean I am giving up on Len. Its just that Noel is looking good.

Noel is not a physical interior defender though. He is better as a pf.

Well, there is no question that Noel is the better player right now. But that was just as true the night of the draft.

Steve

 

[devilalum]

Well, there is no question that Noel is the better player right now. But that was just as true the night of the draft.

Steve

Actually the night of the draft I was a better player than either one.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Actually the night of the draft I was a better player than either one.

LOL.

Steve

 

[JustWinBaby]

Goodwin with a +24 with only 6 points in 16 minutes of play. Hmmm.

I really like him on the court with Bledsoe. I can see that combo being a very big part of our future.

If Archie can ever get a reliable jumper he could be real special. I hope Hornacek can find some consistent minutes for him this year.

 

[Mainstreet]

Not one little bit. If he truly has degenerative knees, he's a bad risk I'd rather do without. I'd rather have Adams although for me that's nothing but hindsight, I had no interest in him at draft time.

Steve

I recall SunsTzu strongly believed the Suns should draft Steven Adams. He should be given credit.

Of course I had the Suns drafting Anthony Bennett at #5.

 

[Mainstreet]

It is and it's not even very close. I was hoping that Len would start to look like a second year top 5 pick and that Plumlee would play like he did early last season but there's no escaping the concern that neither may happen. The best we could have hoped for would have been a middle of the pack center duo but the worst we might have to deal with is the poorest starter/backup big men in the NBA.

I'd call Milwaukee and see what it would take to get either Sanders or Henson. They are both flawed but either of them would upgrade one of our bigs. If we took Henson, we'd probably have to move Keef to the center spot but even that beats what we currently (appear to) have. I'd try to do it with just Ennis and draft picks but I'm one of the few here that thinks Ennis has decent value across the league.

Steve

Call somebody, anybody and someone else while I'm waiting.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I recall SunsTzu strongly believed the Suns should draft Steven Adams. He should be given credit.

Of course I had the Suns drafting Anthony Bennett at #5.

All the while leading up to the draft I wanted either Noel or Bennett, but not for the typical reasons. I thought they were both boom or bust players (with high bust potential) that would do nothing for us their first year. I wanted to preserve our place in line at the 2014 draft. But even if Len turns out to be a bust, the way we went, all told, is an improvement over what we thought was our tanking for talent approach. I say that mostly because our offseason plan brought us Bledsoe who has a very good chance of being a better asset than any player in that 2014 draft.

Steve

 

[Phrazbit]

Not one little bit. If he truly has degenerative knees, he's a bad risk I'd rather do without. I'd rather have Adams although for me that's nothing but hindsight, I had no interest in him at draft time.

Steve

I'm not sure where you're getting the "degenerative knee" thing. That has not been reported anywhere. The guys with degenerative knees like Bynum and Roy, they had cartilage issues that destroyed, Noel blew out his ACL, its different stuff.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I'm not sure where you're getting the "degenerative knee" thing. That has not been reported anywhere. The guys with degenerative knees like Bynum and Roy, they had cartilage issues that destroyed, Noel blew out his ACL, its different stuff.

I know that it was "reported" at the time that his knees had more problems than the ACL. What I don't know was whether that was a real report or just some of the stuff thats starts as a rumor and then gets spread around as fact. I guess I'll try to search this board and the internet to see if I can figure out where my information first came from. My lack of confidence in the original source(s) is why I keep using "if" when I mention Noel's knees.

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

All the while leading up to the draft I wanted either Noel or Bennett, but not for the typical reasons. I thought they were both boom or bust players (with high bust potential) that would do nothing for us their first year. I wanted to preserve our place in line at the 2014 draft. But even if Len turns out to be a bust, the way we went, all told, is an improvement over what we thought was our tanking for talent approach. I say that mostly because our offseason plan brought us Bledsoe who has a very good chance of being a better asset than any player in that 2014 draft.

Steve

I thought Bennett would be the safest pick for the Suns at #5 and he would have the ability to contribute sooner rather than later. That choice does not look so good right now if the draft had fallen that way. However, drafting Len is not looking so good right now either. I had no clue Bennett would go #1.

 

[95pro]

I'd rather have Noel. Len MIGHT eventually pan out unless he breaks something else again or just never gets it

 

[AzStevenCal]

I'd rather have Noel. Len MIGHT eventually pan out unless he breaks something else again or just never gets it

I'd rather have neither. If forced to choose between Noel and Len I'd probably take Noel because he's had a better career to date.

Steve

 

[Chaz]

If Len can actually ever get on the court for an extended period of time he is a more valuable player than Noel. I still think there is a better than even chance that we will see that.

Although, I can see how people see him as injury prone.
The can't be anything until he can get on the court.

 

[Phrazbit]

I remember reading from Suns fans during the draft that we must have "red flagged" Noel because of his knee, but that was shot down when the Suns admitted they never examined Noel's health at all. Probably because of the assumption he'd be gone by their pick.

 

[Phrazbit]

If Len can actually ever get on the court for an extended period of time he is a more valuable player than Noel. I still think there is a better than even chance that we will see that.

Although, I can see how people see him as injury prone.
The can't be anything until he can get on the court.

Its all a question mark with Len. I KNOW a healthy Noel provides elite athleticism and he projects as a legit defender. The only certainty with Len is that he is tall. In college and as a pro he has yet to distinguish himself in any meaningful way.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I remember reading from Suns fans during the draft that we must have "red flagged" Noel because of his knee, but that was shot down when the Suns admitted they never examined Noel's health at all. Probably because of the assumption he'd be gone by their pick.

No, there was a lot more than that. I watched every pre-draft show or interview back then that I could find and it was brought up by multiple reporters the last few days before the draft. I just don't recall if it was league sources, rumor, speculation or what.

I googled it and found countless references to his knees and his injury history beyond the ACL tear but I didn't find anything definitive. It gains credibility if you accept he was the prime prospect in that draft and he fell well below even the worst case predictions. Although it's probably equally likely that his fall was due to his weight and frame rather than a fear of degenerative knees. I guess I'll keep using "if" when I mention it.


Steve

 

[Phrazbit]

No, there was a lot more than that. I watched every pre-draft show or interview back then that I could find and it was brought up by multiple reporters the last few days before the draft. I just don't recall if it was league sources, rumor, speculation or what.

I googled it and found countless references to his knees and his injury history beyond the ACL tear but I didn't find anything definitive. It gains credibility if you accept he was the prime prospect in that draft and he fell well below even the worst case predictions. Although it's probably equally likely that his fall was due to his weight and frame rather than a fear of degenerative knees. I guess I'll keep using "if" when I mention it.


Steve

Fair enough. The dude I wanted (McLemore) hasn't looked so hot either. It was a draft field filled with landmines.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Fair enough. The dude I wanted (McLemore) hasn't looked so hot either. It was a draft field filled with landmines.

I read through some of the draft threads from that season. I was very against Len (months before the draft) but I picked Porter as the safest bet from that draft. He's not looking all that safe right now. I also thought McLemore was a solid pick.

Steve

 

[Errntknght]

I thought Len was a good pick, though risky - great size and agile enough. Who I was most hoping for was Dieng... you know me, defense first. I was hoping we'd buy or finagle a mid first round pick and snag him or Steven Adams if Dieng was already gone. I was thinking of Jeff Withey with our pick, too... load up on bigs and hope one or two panned out. I was glad to get Goodwin instead though.