Preseason Week 2: Oakland Raiders @ Arizona Cardinals GameDay Thread. 08/15/19

[Ronin]

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[MadCardDisease]

Either a few people keep saying this, or you do over and again. It’s not true. While they didn’t call the clap on kyler last week, they did call one on hundley. I was surprised when they called that one too.

When all QBs see the clock running down it’s not unusual to see them start madly repeatedly clapping for the ball. I’ve seen Brady do it, Manning do it, Rivers do it. Why aren’t those penalties? Seems weird. And no I don’t subscribe to any referee conspiracy theory against Kingsbury.

Yeah it was weird. They showed the replay and I can't see the "Jerking Motion" that they say was there on those penalties.

Here is an article on it:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...ping-motions-were-too-abrupt-on-false-starts/

According to Josh Weinfuss of ESPN.com, Murray said officials too hold him the clapping motions he was making were “too abrupt” and “not smooth enough as far as bringing my hands together.”

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Yeah it was weird. They showed the replay and I can't see the "Jerking Motion" that they say was there on those penalties.

Here is an article on it:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...ping-motions-were-too-abrupt-on-false-starts/

Man that seems like the ultimate subjective judgment call that fans just aren’t going to understand. I mean in watching the game I didn’t see any discernible difference between the claps on which he got flagged and those on which he didn’t.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Man that seems like the ultimate subjective judgment call that fans just aren’t going to understand. I mean in watching the game I didn’t see any discernible difference between the claps on which he got flagged and those on which he didn’t.

I personally think KK is going to need to adapt to the NFL in regards to this. I have a feeling that this "Clap snap" thing is going to become a major disadvantage for the Cardinals. If Kyler can't do a fake clap without a penalty then defenses will have a major advantage.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Man that seems like the ultimate subjective judgment call that fans just aren’t going to understand. I mean in watching the game I didn’t see any discernible difference between the claps on which he got flagged and those on which he didn’t.

My only hope is that they are trying to highlight it in the preseason to warn QBs not to get too carried away, but won't be too harsh about it in the regular season

 

[Ronin]

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I personally think KK is going to need to adapt to the NFL in regards to this. I have a feeling that this "Clap snap" thing is going to become a major disadvantage for the Cardinals. If Kyler can't do a fake clap without a penalty then defenses will have a major advantage.

Can he not do a fake clap? I mean QBs can yell "hut" as many times as they like before the actual snap so I don't see why he can't clap a few times before the actual snap.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Can he not do a fake clap? I mean QBs can yell "hut" as many times as they like before the actual snap so I don't see why he can't clap a few times before the actual snap.

The rule for when in shotgun formation says:

"any quick and abrupt movement is a False Start"

I guess the question is what do Refs consider a quick or abrupt movement?

 

[kerouac9]

https://deadspin.com/kyler-murrays-snap-clap-might-be-a-problem-1837299279

Repost. It's not a good look for Kliff and Kyler to say "Well, this worked in college." That will earn them no sympathy here.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

https://deadspin.com/kyler-murrays-snap-clap-might-be-a-problem-1837299279

Repost. It's not a good look for Kliff and Kyler to say "Well, this worked in college." That will earn them no sympathy here.

Where did they say "Well, this worked in college"? Because I don't see it in the article. There was a quote of Kliff saying that a lot of these refs aren't very familiar with it and that he is talking with the league to make sure everyone gets on the same page.

 

[kerouac9]

Where did they say "Well, this worked in college"? Because I don't see it in the article. There was a quote of Kliff saying that a lot of these refs aren't very familiar with it and that he is talking with the league to make sure everyone gets on the same page.

He said it last night in his interview with Calvisi.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

Totally agree, both line of scrimmages are soft. Still waiting for the Suggs and Swearinger intensity to start rubbing off. So far weak and meek

The only dude I saw making any plays at LOS...he stopped the RB on a few occasions for no gain. It's brutal when your safety is the only guy that can hold the line.

 

[JeffGollin]

Where did they say "Well, this worked in college"? Because I don't see it in the article. There was a quote of Kliff saying that a lot of these refs aren't very familiar with it and that he is talking with the league to make sure everyone gets on the same page.

I recall. seeing or hearing "college" reference in a recent K2 interview.

 

[Cardinal]

My only hope is that they are trying to highlight it in the preseason to warn QBs not to get too carried away, but won't be too harsh about it in the regular season

Like last season when they introduced the “lowering the helmet” rule. They called it like crazy in the preseason and it almost went away once the regular season started.

 

[Arz101]

Does anyone have PFF scores on Hicks?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The rule for when in shotgun formation says:

"any quick and abrupt movement is a False Start"

I guess the question is what do Refs consider a quick or abrupt movement?

Right? What about when right before the snap a qb motions out to wr for wildcat? Wasn’t that an abrupt movement?

I kinda wonder if there’s some “this is the nfl not college”-ism going on with this.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Right? What about when right before the snap a qb motions out to wr for wildcat? Wasn’t that an abrupt movement?

I kinda wonder if there’s some “this is the nfl not college”-ism going on with this.

Yeah it's a head scratcher but I don't see a good way out of it. The only way to clap and make noise is to quickly slap you hands together. If you slowly or gently bring you hands together it won't make a clap.

If the refs keep calling false starts then KK will have to change his system. If he doesn't his offense will be doomed and we will be looking at coach #3 next year.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Yeah it's a head scratcher but I don't see a good way out of it. The only way to clap and make noise is to quickly slap you hands together. If you slowly or gently bring you hands together it won't make a clap.

If the refs keep calling false starts then KK will have to change his system. If he doesn't his offense will be doomed and we will be looking at coach #3 next year.

I really don't know what the value of clapping is really. Would it really change anything to just use a verbal snap count at home and silent count on the road? Or is the value that you can use the clap both on the road and at home? Though I suppose it would be really hard to hear the clap in some stadiums.

 

[kerouac9]

Right? What about when right before the snap a qb motions out to wr for wildcat? Wasn’t that an abrupt movement?

I kinda wonder if there’s some “this is the nfl not college”-ism going on with this.

I think you have to be set before you can have a false start. When the QB motions out, he's obviously not set. If the QB were set and then sprinted out, it would be as much a false start as if the halfback did so.

I agree that there is some pro bias going on here, but if your "system" is reliant on this, it's not a very resilient system to begin with.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I really don't know what the value of clapping is really. Would it really change anything to just use a verbal snap count at home and silent count on the road? Or is the value that you can use the clap both on the road and at home? Though I suppose it would be really hard to hear the clap in some stadiums.

This is what I’ve been wondering. What kind of advantage do they see in the clap?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think you have to be set before you can have a false start. When the QB motions out, he's obviously not set. If the QB were set and then sprinted out, it would be as much a false start as if the halfback did so.

I agree that there is some pro bias going on here, but if your "system" is reliant on this, it's not a very resilient system to begin with.

Can’t argue with that.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

This is what I’ve been wondering. What kind of advantage do they see in the clap?

I mean they know more than me so there is probably a reason. Maybe it is a timing thing where Murray claps and the snap is supposed to happen either right away or a have a 1 or 2 second delay. By mixing in the delay it could cause some hesitation by the Dline as they will actually have to wait for the ball to move before they rush.

 

[MadCardDisease]

I agree that there is some pro bias going on here, but if your "system" is reliant on this, it's not a very resilient system to begin with.

Yeah the more I see it the more I hate the whole Clap snap thing. Especially if they are going to call false starts for "sudden movements".

DEs are basically looking right at the QB pre snap. Now all they have to do is wait for Murray to start his clap and take off. That is a huge advantage over the OT who has no idea what is going on behind him.

Mahomes doesn't need this silly clap snap. KK needs to swallow his pride and conform to the NFL on this. Better to do it now with a few weeks of practice left than to have to deal with a change over during the season.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I mean they know more than me so there is probably a reason. Maybe it is a timing thing where Murray claps and the snap is supposed to happen either right away or a have a 1 or 2 second delay. By mixing in the delay it could cause some hesitation by the Dline as they will actually have to wait for the ball to move before they rush.

But you could do the delay with a verbal too. That’s not special to a clap. Why is the clap an advantage?

 

[Krangodnzr]

The clap snap was a major issue in this game. WTF.